In re-reading the illuminating Excellence Magazine series of 18 articles following Paul Sayegh's epic build of his 914 3.6 Conversion, I'm wondering if this is the ultimate benchmark (at least to date) of what such a car's market value is.
Having build one of these myself some 20-30 years ago (albeit with somewhat less of a monster motor but pretty much on par with Paul's car in most other respects), I find nothing about Paul's car which could have been done to any higher standard.

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I understand that Patrick Motorsports is putting 6-figure prices on ones they're building for customers, but is Paul's car the benchmark for owner/builder/seller 914-6 conversions? In other words, anything less of a car than Paul's (in terms of configuration, features and work quality) would necessarily fall below the (IIRC) $60K figure Paul was asking for his car?
Certainly would be worth an open discussion which might help potential buyers and sellers of nice 914-6 conversions to get a better handle on realistic market values.

I think Paul's car is was the benchmark and probably yours as both were very similar. My conversion which was a 75 with back dated bumpers, rust free bare metal respray, 2.7, customized front oil cooler set up with 911 s front suspension, my own custom headers sold recently for 27k on bat. I built the car for 11k 15 years ago but did everything myself. With flares and a 915 trans and a few other little items. I could see 50 to 60k for a conversion as labor for those not doing it them selves takes allot of time. I have no idea what my current project will be worth when its done as it was rusty (finally getting over the hump) so from a starting point was not as nice as many but the some of the parts and the complete redo of everylittle part may help value for me. I will probably have about 12k total into this build so value will be interesting as the engine i have will be worth quite a bit alone i just got good deals and have the connections to make it cost effective.

I've never added up what my conversion cost, but I'd think $40-50,000 wouldn't be far off. Flares, 915s, Supertec engines don't come cheap but are worth it for the fun factor.

I'd really like to get the series of magazine articles of Paul Sayegh's epic build. If any body has a copy that they would be willing to lend or sell, please let me know. Thanks, mark.

I would like to read it as well. What issues have the build? I stopped buying Excellence years ago after having subscribed for a decade. What are the engine specs he built the 3.6 too? HP, torque, redline, fuel injection?

Edit: A google search turned up some of the articles. Very nice build for sure

I was actually mentioned in his build. I may have a copy some where

If I find out you've been holding out on me ....

Just another tid-bit on Paul's build: I believe it was in the final Excellence article that he detailed the costs of his build, and with a close eye on (net) out-of-pocket costs I believe that he was into the car for a bit under $50K. And that's not counting the many hundreds of his personal manhours. IIRC, about the only work he actually farmed out was the body-work.

The biggest cost is the drive train. I was lucky enough to get a core 2.4 from a member here with webers for $1500(trade of parts etc) With all my trading on the engine I may have an out of pocket of 4K but the engine will be worth 3 times that because of the sum of the parts etc.

That doesn't happen for most folks. The other issue is that if we look at current costs of a 3.6 most people can't stomach the 20k plus for sometimes cores unless you are in the know or have an in somewhere. Heck even recently we saw a 2.2S engine for sale for 28K not that it sold at that price but how far off are we as a market from that being a reality? So if you figure a real world drivetrain price tag of 20k on the low side and 10k for a good car to start figure labor and mods 50-60k is easy for real value as it can't be duplicated for less on average. I know I said I will have 12k in mine and I probably will out of pocket but labor has not been factored in and that is because I just really enjoy the metal work and creating something from almost nothing.

My conversion also was started by combining a non-running 914 with the parts from my old rusty Targa (back in the days where they weren't worth fixing). Traded parts for the GT flares and had a friend with a body shop install them when he had lulls in his work. Found a good deal on an old Vellios trans conversion kit and Otto (John Williamson) sourced all the other parts. Like Edd China on Wheeler Dealers, my labor was free and my assistants/friends worked for beer and pizza. It's still one of projects that was great fun and I wish I had the ability to find another project. Keeps me busy and happy.

I think I remember reading that Paul purchased his '95 -993 engine for $8K. That won't even buy you a core 3.6 these days. More like $16-20k to get a good running 3.6 with harness and computer.

Agreed and thats the problem. And 16-20k is even hard to find for the people in the know. I sold my 964 about 6 years ago and sold it for 20k ugh

Pre Singer ...

I did a lot of wheeling and dealing, plus trades both parts and labour, pre-market jump, on mine I think I still have well over $10K out of pocket into it.
My finished engine alone must be worth over $25K to replicate today.

My webers, fuchs, rear 5 bolt, carter pump, plus a few other goodies all came from a wrecked 911 I traded for an 1.8 T4 into bug conversion installed. At the time I thought it was just an OK break even deal.
Now with the price of webers and fuchs it's more like I made out like a bandit.

...and RWB, Magnus, Luft, and…

A friend was looking for a 964 C2 coupe 5spd recently and said the ONLY car on the market had 90,000 miles and the dated blue/white two-tone interior for a mere...$62,000. I know of a white/black C2 coupe 5spd in so-so shape with 180,000+ miles that fetched $75k. That was last year. They didn't make many 964s to begin with, partly due to the economy and partly because the cars were largely shunned when new. So it's interesting to see what's happening; not sure it makes sense to me—but it doesn't have to.



Same here. Started collecting parts for the conversion in 2010, when things like good Webers could be had from the Bird Board for $1100~ and long before even the small bore engines started getting expensive. I figured the conversion would be a huge money loser, but that it didn't matter because I plan to keep this car for years to come. I guess that's still true to some extent, but I actually don't like seeing the run up in prices for all this stuff. It may save some cars, but I also feel it prices a lot of enthusiasts out of early Porsches—even 914s. With nice 4s going for $20k, nice conversions going for $35-50k, and nice 6s at $80-130k, I guess the day has finally arrived: The 914 is a 356, albeit 20-30 years behind.

The good news is there are still ways into the hobby. If I had to start out again, it'd be 1 (800) BUY-A986 or some sort of outlaw 914, possibly with a Subaru engine.

That's too much money. We just picked up a nice RS America for $90k. That's a whole 'nother league 964. Just needed a respray on some panels. 30k miles.

Agree. RSA market is even wilder—though RSA pricing actually looks sensical next to the C2 market.

I would say you made a good buy, but I can't get my head around any of these 964 prices after driving a lot of the cars when they were still relatively new all the way down to the $15-25k bracket—back when you could get an RSA with miles for $35-45k.

I know that we comp'd Paul a set of MSDS ceramic coated headers for the "Excellence" build...that saved him some duckettes. Best way to build your dream 914 is to create your parts list, then start gathering inventory by following that list. Interview mechanical and body shops at the same time.
Are you still sitting there ¿

I did the same for the muffler which saved him $750 at the time.

I've seen Paul's car several times (as I'm sure many of us have) and ridden in it. It's even nicer in person than the magazine. Especially since its black, the body work had to be perfect!

As for spec's its a '95 993 motor with headers and I believe the rest is 100% stock with a 915 trans. He did end up rebuilding the motor because it had a few leaks. That car I believe was running 245 rear tires, when he gets on it in a straight line it goes sideways (just a little) because it has so much smooth torque on the low end. It was amazing.

Paul actually convinced me to rebuild my motor (a tired carb'd 3.0) instead of buying a 3.2 motronic, which I am happy about.

Going back to original question I tried to posed in this thread, for those very familiar with Paul's build - either from your 1st hand personal experience or from reading/studying the details in the 18 articles, is there a better price benchmark in terms of that vehicle's configuration, features, details and work quality?

I read through the article and it took me a bit to figure out the timeframe. The price list must be from around 2005? I'm not sure when the car was completed. I agree, it's a magnificent build. Probably cost $125-150 to build today at a shop like pms (just guessing based on what we charge for 911's).

I spent some time with Paul's car—though not a lot—and my take is:

-There are probably only a handful of 914 hot rods with sixes (either original or conversions) done to that level or beyond. So Paul's car is a good benchmark in terms of quality of conversion, paint, etc. It drove beautifully, and looked great. There were some things I would have done differently from an aesthetic standpoint, but that's personal taste and I found nothing on the car that wasn't done well or intelligently. It was really well thought out.

-Other completed cars that come to mind are an Adriatic Blue 914-6 3.6 built by a guy named Constantine years ago, and the silver 914-6 "GT" built by Ernie King in the 1990s (3.6) and then again in the 2000s (3.8)—though I think Paul's car drove better than Ernie's car and roughly similar to the blue car (which drove like a factory 914-6 that just happened to have come with a 993 3.6).

-A few of the restored 916s are done to a higher level, but that's not what you're asking here, and is not a "fair fight."

It might be fun to have a listing of -6 conversion cars (Porsche -6 engines) as many have already gone down that slippery ($$ slipping out of our accounts) slope! Properly done there's few things that are more fun than a -6 with a higher horsepower engine.