Beyond the cheating scandal...does anyone have direct ownership experience? Are there years or models to stay away from? I am thinking of a used car for my son - heading to college next month. Thanks in advance!

Tony

I bought new a 2005.5 Jetta, base model (they called it the "Value Edition" - cloth seats, no sunroof), 2.5l 5 cyl, 5spd manual. Still have it. Over 200,000 miles and its been my most reliable daily driver to date. Regular maintenance. Pre 2003 I'd stay away.

Interesting, I was just looking at Car Complaints regarding a no heat issue on my 2002 Passat w Climatronic. Seems the 1.8 has many engine issues, especially with sludge. Mine is a v6 tho.

I guess they're trying to make up for all those years of making Beetles, simple, cheap and reliable.

pain...... then more pain, whats your point?

Bough a brand new Jetta 1.8T in 2001 for my wife and every time we would bring it in for oil change something was wrong (sensors of all types).
Had the infamous coil issue and was without a car for 3 weeks (no stock).
Driver window dropped during summer vacation trip, 2 years old.
Sold the car after 3 years of pain and got a Corolla. Gas, oil change, tires and pads, for maaany years, no problem. She was happy (happy wife,...)

VW, been there done that, never again, except for air cooled of course

I had an 05 GTI 1.8t with tiptronic. I owned it for about a year and put 30K miles on it. In that time frame I had multiple coolant parts break, interior trim break/fail, transmission solenoids failed, dash catching on fire and many other things. My wife also had a 99 Jetta that overall was decent but tranny started slipping at 140K and we got rid of it. I can't recommend the MKIV generation and based on what I've heard the quality hasn't got much better since then.

Fun cars to drive but not to own.

I have / had a 2008 Golf R32. My son has it now as his 1st car. No issues with approx 85k miles.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J62-Z3fIKOU

I have a 2010 Jetta Sportwagen TDi with 55K, and it is not only a blast to drive spiritedly but returns almost 50 MPG on the interstate doing 70. The car has had zero issues, but if you read the TDi forums, they were made by the devil to drive us straight to hell. A number have suffered catastrophic high pressure fuel pump failures resulting in new motors. There is an aftermarket kit available to mitigate this issue but it costs a pricey $1500 plus labor.

The most reliable cars are made by Toyota, but being a VW owner I can sympathize.

Owned a 2006 GTI (MkV) from 08-16. Great car to drive but highly trouble prone. Entire HVAC system had to be replaced at 20k, cam follower self destructed and camshaft needed replaced (both under warrantee). Water pump failed. ECU needed replaced. Went through a cylinder ignition coil every 5k miles. Airbag connectors shorted. Developed a leak into the spare well that the dealer couldn't solve. Solution was to drill 2 holes at the lowest point.

I let it go at 95k after I tried and failed to replace a headlamp, and ended up paying the dealer $350 for the job. To literally change a bulb. It was, however, the nicest and smoothest manual car I've ever driven, and got quite reasonable MPG (33 on the highway). I hear later model years had some of the early 2.0T issues sorted out.

Over the same timeframe, my wife's Honda Fit has had one bad wheel bearing. Guess what I DD now?

FWIW my parents are VW fans and have had both a TDI Passat and now a gas one and have loved both of them, with much less drama than my GTI.

Recently sold a 2014 Jetta with the 1.8 direct injection turbo. Awesome vehicle, would have kept it if we could afford the car payment and the new baby.

The 2.0 turbos, especially early mk5 cars, have issues. The 5 cyl engines are pretty robust. I've had a few VWs with the VR6, love that engine. Electrical gremlins in the mk3 and mk4 chassis, mk1s and mk2s are drivers cars.

As mentioned above Toyota and Honda are both Aces. Subaru is the new Volkswagen and JD Powers just named KIA the most reliable. Don't forget to look at the safety rating of any car you buy, Tony. Kids have a way of wrecking their first car or two!

Thanks everyone...I do not make it a habit of gambling - I won't with the VW. We have had four Hondas to date - I guess I will look for a decent Civic for Rich. Thanks for EVERYONE'S input!!!

Tony

I don't know about the US, but I know for a fact that it costs a fortune to insure a Honda Civic for a young boys in Canada . You might want to check your insurance before buying any car...

Thank you...I will. We have zero accidents, zero tickets and adding my son to our policy nearly doubled our rate. He drives a CR-V and will probably be the car we send him off with - it just happens to have to flat tow gear for our motorhome. Maybe I'll just buy another; however, it hasn't been nearly as bulletproof as our Odyssey's!!!

cheers!

T

[quote name='Montreal914' date='Jul 7 2017, 11:25 PM' post='2504097'
I don't know about the US, but I know for a fact that it costs a fortune to insure a Honda Civic for a young boys in Canada . You might want to check your insurance before buying any car...
[/quote]

Base Toyota Camry should equal low insurance rates. No excitement, just reliable.

I cant help but chime in here


My buddy and his dad had like 10 vw s
Started out with a fox

Then jetta after jetta only guy i ever saw who had twin black and white jettas , even a pink jetta trek , a old 71 bus

Golfs the so called all out sporty vr6 stick shift vw



And those older vws like i said above could be worked on easily
Not like these more modern stuff





But if you really like sporty little cars that are actually made in japan 100 % and or german

The best car is a mazda protege stick shift .
If the maintenance is keeped up which is really inexpensive

Way sportier , cheaper ,lighter ,great handling
Cheap ride . Mazda absolute best bang for the buck


Toyota and lexus for that matter is the longevity king
I put 283 k on a tacoma, on just oil changes

But toyota s are about as sporty as a old Mercedes diesal sedan .
And can we make a rule is your tires are bigger then 15 inch
Its NOT a daily driver


And i would real like to know what the f is a accord sport

If you're looking for OLD stuff... stay away from Mk3 cars if you're anywhere that gets rusty cars, mechanically good but rust buckets. They're the reason VW has an 11 year rust warrantee now. MK2 cars last forever, diesels anyway. my daily driver for the last umpteen years is a '92 jetta diesel that won't quit. pulled the engine out of the last one I had, car was over 500,000 when the back strut tower parted ways from the inner fender... car had seen too much salt. Motor went in the current car (gas to diesel) at least 7 years ago, weekend job to do. put at least another 100,000 on it since, and the car does everything I need it to do so I keep driving it.
Wife is driving 2009, one of the emissions cars. Waiting to see if they can come up with an epa approved fix. If not we'll have to bit the bullet and take the buyout but we really like the car. Know someone that has an '06 jetta diesel that had wiring issues when the car was about 4 years old, VW had to replace harnesses and switches in the doors because they were having issues with the power windows. My experience is all diesel, I know that I the older gas cars they had trouble passing emissions here when the mileage gets up. tend to have high Nox readings.

Although I posted earlier about some issues with the 2002 Passat, (what do you want for $300) my wife loves it. I said I can only imagine how great it must have been new; there's 170k on it now. Biggest one is no heat; the A/C cranks but come October she'll be looking for it, so I'll have to figure out that one.

In all fairness, however, my DD is also a 2002, but a Golf TDI. I got it from a neighbor with just over 200k, I think she decided to sell it due to an occasional injection pump problem that would create difficult starting. I tried a seal kit from DieselGeek (I believe) that ran $60 including the special wrench. 3 hr job, has run flawlessly since. It's now got almost 260k, and returns about 47 mpg here on LI.

Yes, it's a base model, no power windows or sunroof, I did have to repair the passenger window regulator when I got it, and yes, the interior bits are rather flimsy, the radio really sux (needs a new antenna) but reliability has been terrific.

So I guess it's an overall crap shoot. But yeah, having had a Honda, there's going to be things that need replacing/repair; I think sometimes it just comes down to luck...

I own the last year VW made a quality car..... 1967.

I've owned 5 watercooled VW's, I'll never buy another.

I'm on my third VW, its a 2011 TDI DSG, love it, prevously I had a 2002 Passat 1.8t and a 2003 Golf TDI as daily drivers and two Mk1 Sciroccos as fun cars. After Saab went out of business I dont see myself driving anything but a VW or a BMW. Honda would be the interesting Asian brand but it is way underrepresented over here and Toyota is just meh.

As for reliability nothings left me stranded, the Passat needed a timing chain tensioner outside of ordinary service, the old Golf needed a roof antenna and new rear calipers at around 250k km. Not sure if theres a difference between German built cars and Mexico/US built cars but from what I read here it seems there is..... None of my cars I've bought new, always buy them as the second owner when its passed the first three year lease or so and I tend to keep them for 5-6 years.

The reason I even brought it up (allot of ignorance to follow) is just down the main street from my home a beautiful VW has been rolled out several times to attempt to sell. I believe it is a Passat (it is very sporty looking) and I do not believe it has sold. He appears to try to sell it every 6 months or so over the last two years. It might have sold and was thinking of knocking his door and inquiring - I have been tempted to stop by many times but never had. Just for kicks - I'll go over shortly and if it is still around, get details and pics. Cheers!

T

I've had many VW's, last four a 2000 Jetta TDI 450,000mile, another 2000 TDI with 350,000 miles, a 2005 2.5 with 200,000 miles and a 2012 Passat TDI. The Passat should have been a piece of junk......first month of production, all new plant(Chattanooga plant) and new employee's.....four years later with 130,000miles the car was perfect, never had to go into VW for any service, just perfect. But then had to give back to VW. I bought the new Golf Sport wagon four motion. I've had a lot of cars, service has been better in the past with Honda/Toyota, but they don't drive as well. VW is a real drivers car and now with great reliability. Best, Mark

Whatever you do, STAY AWAY FROM THE AUTOMATICS

I have a 2005 Jetta TDI with Tiptronic. At around 200k, started having issues with not going into gear until warmed up. Took a couple minutes at first but after a few months, was taking as long as 20 minutes Replaced the solenoids ($300 and a few hours) and problem solved. Rest of car is holding up well.

Bought a 2004 New Beetle Convertible with transmission issues (tiptronic). Thought it would be an easy fix. Supposedly had a new valve body. After reading the forums, concluded it was a mechanical issue within the unit itself. 2.0 ran well. Interior of car was coming apart. Sold the car last week.

My daughter has a 2003 Jetta TDI with Tiptronic that developed shifting issues. I haven't had a chance to mess with it and she has parked it and moved on. I am hoping solenoids will fix that one. Rest of car is holding up well.

VAG-COM diagnostic tool has been a great investment!

The 5-speed manuals are great fun. And I prefer the driving feel of a VW over a Honda (owned a 2000 Civic - over 225k miles - only had to replace the radiator!) and current wife's daily driver, a Kia Soul (great car).

We just had a big discussion on this in the Sandbox. We basically came down to all VAG products suck after 2000 or so. I happen to have just bought a 2004 Audi A4, which is basically a Passat with the 1.8 turbo. For me, most of the maintenance has already been done, but I did need to replace the coil/FI harnesses, new valve cover gasket and cam timing solenoid. No sludge but you'd need one of those cheap USB cameras to check the one you're looking at. I am impressed with the build quality of MY car, but in general, I think all German cars are overpriced for the shitty quality they've become known for in the past 15 years. A Honda/Yota/Nissan or even better, a Suby is a much better option for any college student. Kia and Hyundai have REALLY stepped up their game in the past 2-3 years as well.

Come to think of it, my F-150 has 250k miles on it and I'm still happy with it, even though it's a 1997. Stay away from the 5.4 and you can't go wrong. Super cheap and man, I wish I had a truck while I was in college. Miatas are also bulletproof, but not as convenient if/when he has to move out of the dorm.

**Update**

So I stopped by the home...they still have it and looks real clean for its age. I drove it a little and has a MUCH better feel than the CR-V you see in the background! Heck, we might keep this car and send our son off to school in the Honda!

Either way, whichever car we end up with will be a back-up vehicle logging roughly 5-7 thousand miles each year.

2007 Jetta GLI Turbo (4 cylinder)
Auto with paddles
Original owners (no accidents)
110k miles
New-ish tires (really good)
Leather, heated seats, etc.

Given the fact that I just dropped in on the household unannounced the car is clean but could clean up much better with an hours worth of work. So, the big question - is this one of the PROBLEM child cars? They claim to have not had any issues with it (electrical, mechanical, etc.) with the exception of a recent oil leak that the dealer fixed three-weeks ago. Also, the owners are 66 years old and use it for an errand car and to see the grand kids in Alabama...so they say (but I tend to believe them).

Thoughts? Price? Run? Buy?

Tony

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Automatic transmission is the biggest concern.
But if it does start having issues - hard shifts, flaring, etc - look into replacing the solenoids. Inexpensive fix and not too difficult to do yourself.

Find out with engine it is and what gearbox. The gasoline twoliter engine is the best bet, stay away from the 1.4's with turbo and supercharger. If its a DSG gearbox make sure its the 6 speed and not the sevenspeed.

It is the 2.0 FSI motor with 200 hp and a 6-Speed DSG (really?!?!) - a dual-clutch in a car like this (and at this price point is - just crazy!).

Question: Assuming the timing belt hasn't been changed but I do not know - what kind of expense is that on these cars?

T

Thats the prefered combo then, the DSG needs service every 60k km if i remember correctly, oilchange and a calibration or something like that, not something your around the corner mechanic can sort unless they're used to newer VW's and has the correct instruments....

I have a 1959 single cab, I would buy it all over again!!!
I... have a 1979 Rabbit, Jury is out on this one.... sell or not to sell... if I did I would buy a Aircooled beetle.
My last daily VW was a 1990 jetta, and decided I would never buy a late VW again
I drive a Toy Tundra, as a daily

OK. I just spoke to a local VW dealer; the timing belt service is 105k ($1100 includes new water pump, etc.). Also, as Falcor suggested the trans needs to be flushed; that runs 385 at the dealer. She wanted 6k but if these haven't been done - I'd back those out and only pay the 4500. Honestly, I think I'd gamble the $$$ for a dual-clutch; beautifully driving car I experienced today. The one caveat, I would keep the car here at home send my son off with the Honda. I'll keep you posted...

Tony

Wife had a fox when I met her (gave her ghia to her brother) mil bought a new beetle. Neither made it past 100k even though they each had some pricey work done. Unlike the VW's, my wife's Honda minivan is going to hit 300k with just oil changes and tires. We kept it for hauling the kids dorm rooms and she bought a CRV.

'61 Beetle
'68 Type 3 Squareback
'77 Type 4 bus
'76 Dasher
'83 Rabbit GTI
'81 Scirocco S
'81 Rabbit Convertible
'84 Rabbit GTI
'99 Audi A4 Avat
'91 Audi 200TQ
'84 Rabbit Diesel
'00 Audi S4 sedan
'10 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI (6-speed)
'11 GTI (DSG)
'16 Golf S Wagon (auto)

Loved every one of them.

If you're into Toyota/Honda (now Kia and Hyundai) appliances, VW (or probably anything German) is likely not your thing.

Greg - How do you - why do you have so many cars man?!?!?! Any issues with the DSG?

T

LOL...not simultaneous, over the years, my friend*.

That DSG car was a venture into something new...I'd heard very good things about it and wanted to try one, so I leased the car. I enjoyed it so much as a street car that I bought it off-lease. It's truly a ground-breaking transaxle, and converted me to the mindset that for the daily driver I'll probably never buy a manual again. It's really that good. 68k miles to date, I did the 40k service myself, and <knock, knock> zero troubles to date.

Of course, I'd prefer nothing like that in my "fun" cars such as the 914s (1 street, 1 race) and the Honda FG I race. I've raced a DSG-equipped car and liked it, but it takes some getting used to. I've been racing manuals for 30+ years and it's just awkward, kinda like learning to left-foot brake (which I've yet to be fully comfy with).

There was a time there where VW quality sucked balls; we're talking late 90s to mid-00s, whatever that generation was (Mk 4?) That's the generation(s) that all the Honda fanbois point to when they try to convince everyone how good their EGs end EKs are (and I've owned a few of those too, including my fav, the DC Integra). But today's Mk 6 and Mk7 cars are very good cars. All suffer from the same problems most modern-day cars do, and that's complexity; one cannot get today's luxury and efficiency without it. If that bothers you then go find a 70s or 80s car with one of those last bastions of carburetors.

On the other hand, if simple basic boring appliance transportation is the desire, something for which you will not be passionate and will have no hesitation to throw away/replace, then the basic Toyota Camry/Honda Accord/Nissan Altima is, seriously, the way to go.

I've done my best to never drive something boring. So far, so good.

GA

* Other things I've owned:

- '76 Dodge Aspen wagon. Ugh. Though it has the wood side vinyl, so there's that...
- c '76 Dodge short bed pickup with 4-on-the-floor and 225 slant-6. Barely pulled the open trailer with race car efficiently, but got the job done. Girlfriends were unappreciative of the vinyl bench seats...
- Non-turbo Dodge Shelby Charger race car. Good for the times, that 2.2L engine is pretty decent. But basic tech and a Dodge chassis...
- '87 Shelby CSX race car and daily driver (I was in school). 2.2L turbo engine and the chassis had a terrible problem of fatiguing at the firewall. But it won us a good number of races.
'91 Chevy Subruban. Replaced the slant-6 Dodge but fuel economy was so terrible, and tank so small, that we had to carry Jerry cans of fuel in the back to make it through Oklahoma in the middle of the night.
'86 Toyota Supra turbo. Nice GT cruiser but yawn.
'03 Ford E-350 5L. Couldn't pull a 24' enclosed
'03 Ford E-350 non-turbo diesel cargo van. Barely pulled the open trailer efficiently.
'94 Miata. Great little car, but...Miata.
'91 Toyota MR2. Fun car. Old Camry engine sub-optimal, shoulda replaced it with something better, like the six.
'99 E350 passenger can with the 6.8L V-10. Pulled the enclosed fine but holy hell did it suck fuel, like 7mpg
'92 Nissan NX2000, 1 street, 1 race. Fantastic little car. Shoulda have kept the street one.
'95 Integra GS-R. Fantastic race car, should have bought one of these as a new street car in the 90s.
'00 Ford Excursion Powerstroke diesel. Fantastic truck, did everything I wanted, and I comfort. Sold it after 300k miles and replaced with a used '01 PSD Excursion that I still own.

As far as MK 4s go I have owned 3. My first was a 2001 jetta gls 12v vr6. Replaced the water pump at 120k. Owned it from 80k to 220k. 2nd was a 05 GTI 20valve Turbo. Owned from 43k to 90k. Traded it in for my current 04 BMP r32 as I didn't want to do the timing belt and water pump and I always wanted an r32.bought the R with 50k, I'm up to 120k. As long as you follow the manual and change the synthetic oil every 10k, you'll be fine as far as the mk4. Some have had lemons with electrical issues. VW Vortex is the samba for water cooled vws.

If you can get it for $6,000 or under I'd jump on it.

They did offer it to me at 6 but I am now waiting for records regarding the timing belt & trans service. I will back those costs off based upon the results...I'd want to be 6 all-in if I went this route - thanks!

PS: I would also have the dealer do a thorough inspection...

T

Kind of a bummer: The timing belt and trans service would total $1600 at the dealer. The owner is unwilling to modify her price making the purchase a poor decision. Maybe I am being saved from unknown issue...oh well. Thanks again for everyone's thoughts...

Tony

My first H2O VW was an '80 Scirocco - loved it (until I got T-boned in it)

My wife purchased a brand new '99 Beetle and it was a throw-way/lemon from day one. Add to that the piss-poor dealership service (and damages they inflicted), and the care less treatment from the VWoA parent company, I swore off purchasing any new VWs

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Of course, YMMV ...

This video will help: VW MKIV Common Problems

LOL. If the model I was looking was a Mk 4 then maybe it would...seriously, no big loss - maybe none at all actually.

T

We have a 2008 Jetta in the family, bought new has 150k miles, no problems. I hear the 2.5L is one of there most reliable motors.

You should have bought it. Most of the 2007 GLIs I found, with about that mileage were over a grand more. Timing belts on the 2.0 FSI are not hard to do. DSG is a reliable trans. My son has a 2009 DSG TDI with over 120,xxx on it and no problems with the trans. The TDI has more torque than the FSI.

The 2.5s have timing chains in the rear of the motor, so timing chain replacement requires motor removal. The timing chain guides on the early ones, not that good.

The FSI motor is better than the TSI motor. The direct injection motors on most cars these days, no matter the make, get carbon build up, that has to be removed by walnut shell blasting.

The gli has upgraded brakes and suspension.

As far as early examples of VW water cooled cars. Mine and my sons 89 GLI 16v had over 200,xxx plus miles on it before I rebuild the motor. Trans rebuild at 250,xxx. When the car was sold at 276,000+, all the electrics still worked, including the sun roof.

I have a 90 Fox Wagon, just because it was the only 2dr water cooled VW brought into the country. More like an Audi, mechanical wise than a VW. 200,000+ miles on it. Simple car, no power steering, wind up windows, mechanical seat adjustment, etc.

Wife has a 2008 R32 and my daily is a 2010 Jetta TDI.

Greg W.