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second wind
Here is a stresser.....my '73 2.0 lost power and during diagnosis found out rocker arm shaft had come loose and fallen out. No damage to anything except a groove worn into the pushrod two inches in from the valve cover side. I found the two nuts but only one wavy washer. Car runs with no noises or any odd sounds but I hate to button it up without finding the missing washer. Changed oil and nothing on super magnet plug. Any ideas where it might be?? Thank you!!
gg
Ferg
May be time to buy or borrow a bore scope. I'd pull the sump screen, cut open the filter. Use the bore scope to look around near the sump.
Valy
1. I would assume the cut in the pushrod is from the retaining wire that either released and moved when the rockers shaft released or was incorrectly mounted to begin with.
2. It might be that the shaft released because you were missing that wavy washer, that's there to prevent the nut to untie under vibration.
3. The only place that washer can go is in the pushrods tubes. There's no way for it to reach the combustion chamber without a big hole in the head. Also it can't pass to the crank side.
Spoke
QUOTE(Valy @ Jul 26 2017, 03:35 PM) *

3. The only place that washer can go is in the pushrods tubes. There's no way for it to reach the combustion chamber without a big hole in the head. Also it can't pass to the crank side.


So to find the washer the pushrod tubes should be pulled on that side?
914sgofast2
QUOTE(Spoke @ Jul 26 2017, 03:12 PM) *

QUOTE(Valy @ Jul 26 2017, 03:35 PM) *

3. The only place that washer can go is in the pushrods tubes. There's no way for it to reach the combustion chamber without a big hole in the head. Also it can't pass to the crank side.


So to find the washer the pushrod tubes should be pulled on that side?


I agree with Spoke. The washer is probably down inside one of the pushrod tubes and getting bounced around by a lifter. Pull all the pushrod tubes on the side of the engine where the nuts and washers came off and you will probably find the missing washer on top of one of the lifters.
TheCabinetmaker
And you didn't post a pic of this? Why does that not surprise me?
second wind
QUOTE(The Cabinetmaker @ Jul 27 2017, 06:00 AM) *

And you didn't post a pic of this? Why does that not surprise me?


And I thought I didn't know how to add a picture.....thank you for pushing me to higher level of computer excellence
Dave_Darling
I love that the wear mimics the shape of the end.

--DD
second wind
Well.....???? I haven't found the missing washer yet.....maybe it doesn't even exist. Did the wire do this? I made a magnet probe with a N52 magnet and can't get even a sliver of metal on it.....pushed it down the push rod tube almost a foot....nuthin'.....I am all ears you guys....
gg
second wind
QUOTE(The Cabinetmaker @ Jul 27 2017, 06:00 AM) *

And you didn't post a pic of this? Why does that not surprise me?


Did the pictures give you any ideas of what is going on? I know you are very knowledgeable.....thank you,
gg
914sgofast2
QUOTE(second wind @ Jul 27 2017, 08:58 AM) *

Well.....???? I haven't found the missing washer yet.....maybe it doesn't even exist. Did the wire do this? I made a magnet probe with a N52 magnet and can't get even a sliver of metal on it.....pushed it down the push rod tube almost a foot....nuthin'.....I am all ears you guys....
gg

I suggest you look in all 4 of the pushrod tubes on that side of the engine, not just the tube with the damged pushrod. The missing washer did not necessarily fall down inside the tube wth the damaged pushrod. It probably bounced around inside the valve cover a bit.
second wind
QUOTE(Valy @ Jul 26 2017, 12:35 PM) *

1. I would assume the cut in the pushrod is from the retaining wire that either released and moved when the rockers shaft released or was incorrectly mounted to begin with.
2. It might be that the shaft released because you were missing that wavy washer, that's there to prevent the nut to untie under vibration.
3. The only place that washer can go is in the pushrods tubes. There's no way for it to reach the combustion chamber without a big hole in the head. Also it can't pass to the crank side.


Hello Valy...your post gave me hope that the washer, if it exists, is closeby and can't destroy my engine. What the heck is the retaining wire anyway? Seems like the culprit to me. Can I just cut it out? Thank you,
gg
euro911
... or maybe someone failed to install the washers in the first place ... and possibly the reason the rocker arm shaft let go? confused24.gif
iankarr
agree.gif

That's my bet as well. BTW I have a bunch of 7mm and 8mm wavy washers if you need.
mgphoto
Wire when oriented correctly keeps pressure on the push rod tubes and prevents them from vibrating out.
You need them and you need them installed correctly.
second wind
QUOTE(cuddyk @ Jul 27 2017, 03:06 PM) *

agree.gif

That's my bet as well. BTW I have a bunch of 7mm and 8mm wavy washers if you need.


Thank you for the offer cuddyk....I found some new ones at local parts store. I can't imagine why there isn't a more fool proof way of securing these critical nuts. I will be using new 8.1 nuts whatever that is worth....hardness level I think. Thanks again,
gg
euro911
I had a Porsche 912 (616) motor that a PO had built, and when I pulled the heads to check the top-end internals, found that he 'forgot' to reinstall wave washers and new o-rings in various places. Don't discount the worth of wave (spring) washers ... the do the trick just fine.
Dave_Darling
Yes, the wires can absolutely cause that damage. The pushrod body is aluminum, the wire is steel. One of those things is harder than the other--guess which one wears? We've seen it dozens of times.

The cure is to install the wire properly. The lower parts of the wire should rest on the "shoulders" of the pushrod tube. They should not stick down into the tube.

The wire is important, as it keeps the tube from sliding out as the engine grows and shrinks. (As it does with heat.) Unless you're Elyutt, in which case about six tubes of orange RTV is the perfect solution. They didn't really put many extra parts in these engines.

(Follow Elyutt's lead if you want the same sort of abuse he gets for that. wink.gif )

--DD
Valy
QUOTE(second wind @ Jul 27 2017, 02:53 PM) *

QUOTE(Valy @ Jul 26 2017, 12:35 PM) *

1. I would assume the cut in the pushrod is from the retaining wire that either released and moved when the rockers shaft released or was incorrectly mounted to begin with.
2. It might be that the shaft released because you were missing that wavy washer, that's there to prevent the nut to untie under vibration.
3. The only place that washer can go is in the pushrods tubes. There's no way for it to reach the combustion chamber without a big hole in the head. Also it can't pass to the crank side.


Hello Valy...your post gave me hope that the washer, if it exists, is closeby and can't destroy my engine. What the heck is the retaining wire anyway? Seems like the culprit to me. Can I just cut it out? Thank you,
gg

It's a spring wire, kind of zigzag shape, that retains the pushrod tubes in place. The wire is hold in place by the rockers shaft supports.
Valy
BTW, the magnet trick might not work since the tubes are metal and the lifters are metal as well as the washer. The magnet will stick to anything in there and the washer may also get stuck at the end of the pushrod. You have to take all 4 tubes out and check inside and on the lifters as well. If you can show a picture of ALL 4 pushrod, including edges, we might see a clue of where the washer hides.
But, as I initially said, it might be that there was no washer and that's why the nut came off.
euro911
Read this first, second wind cool_shades.gif

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