I have a 1974 1.8 914 (L-jet). I set the point gaps last night, and the engine still just turns over. What was wondering is, if anyone has any suggestions on what would make my car have no spark. As of now im up for exploring all options. The plugs are good. If anyone has any suggestions on what i should check i would appreciate them greatly. Thanks,
Adam

was it running before you did what you did? or not?
what did you do - EXACTLY?

if it was running before, what problem were you hoping to cure?

have you verified that the points open and close - electrically?

have you verified proper voltages at the coil?

do you have a completely stock ignition system, or are there modifications we should know about.

and BTW - WELCOME !!!

Alright to answer ArtechnikA.

It did run last fall then it stopped abruptly. It wasnt up to full power. I've tried checking various parts of the system and i've pretty much narrowed it down to the coil/relay/distributor... not much help i know.

The coil gets voltage. Completely stock ignition.
The points were brand new when i set the gap, can't say for sure if they were opening and closing though.

I was also wondering at if someone could give me a brief idea of the relationship between the distributor and the ignition system, and how they send signals.

Thanks

QUOTE

I was also wondering at if someone could give me a brief idea of the relationship between the distributor and the ignition system, and how they send signals.

distributor is spun by the cam, it opens the points, the rotor sends the signal to the right cylinder(whichever it is pointing to on the cap)

how an ignition system works

QUOTE (adamd1514 @ May 17 2005, 10:58 AM)

The points were brand new when i set the gap, can't say for sure if they were opening and closing though.

okay, cool - we are making progress...

how did the points look when you took out the old ones?

there's supposed to be a fiber rubbing block that rubs on the distributor cam to open and close the points. was there one? comparing it to the one you put in - did it look squashed, broken, or teeny, like it had ben rubbed away?

did the metal contact points look burned?

HOW did you set the point gap? there was a really good thread here on how to do that within the past 2-3 months - a search should bring that up.

try: points AND setting AND gap as search terms.

you MUST have the points on the high point of a cam lobe when you set the gap. there are various ways to do that, and i'm hesitant to describe the "easy" way because you MUST retime the engine after using that method and i don't want you getting in over your head too soon and getting frustrated.

by all means: buy the Haynes manual for this car and study the ignition procedures. you will need something to tell you when the points are opening and closing - a simply low-wattage 12V bulb - like a taillight bulb and some wires - or a FLAPS test light, or a voltmeter. having a decent inductive timing light will help you too.

describe clearly what you're doing, what you've done, and what the results were, and we will get you through this.

As far as the timing, I timed it at the tip of the rounded square edge (forgive my wording) Im pretty sure its the right way, to .016 or .4mm. As the Haynes manual suggested. After doing this the ground wire on the new set of points burnt up. The old points were a little rusty (after sitting all winter in storage with little attention). The black material that rubs was pretty worn, their wasnt much carbon build up though. I just got an e-mail back from Dave Darling about my coil setup. So tommorow I'll have to make sure I have the right wires in the right places. John Chi sent me a seperate e-mail on how to check to make sure my distributor/coil/ignition setup is right. So once I check out all the information you've given along with Dave/John ill post a follow up.

I really appreciate the responses, Thanks
Adam

Also to establish what I've done. The engine did have a gas fire resulting from the previous owner using standard sized fuel lines over the metric and their was a leak at both the fuel rails. I've replaced all fuel hoses, charcoal canister, l-jet harness, new brain, new air box, new vacuum hoses. Just about all the stuff that got hot/burnt. New plugs/wires too.

Thanks again,
Adam

wudup adam. I came looking on this forum for stuff to get to you (remember, you asked me to look the other night?) and I found your post. I wish I was home to help you out with this. Perhaps to make it up to you I'll let you drive yellowbird around a little more than usual.

offtopic, but when's your graduation? Mines the 5th, I'll get home the 6th I think. Then I go to hawaii on the 9th and won't be back until the 20th or 21st or something like that.

I did some wrenchin' on the 914 tonight. I found that directly connecting (+) power to the coil gives me spark. When the ignition is off I get (+) power however, when the ignition is turned off i get no (+) power. Anyone have any remedies to this problem?

Also on the dash, none of my gauges get power, the lights work, but the tach, the little red analog bar that doesnt do much doesnt work, the volt-meter doesnt work only the dash lights. Anyone have suggestions for this?

Once again, i greatly appreciate any help given
Thanks,
Adam

sounds like you need to go back to the basics, check the fuses, clean the fuse teminals. the check you get power in the right places when you turn on the ign switch

the main relay in the engine bay should come on when the key is turned on. the best way to test this is: on the rear drivers side of the relay board is a 4 prong connector, the front pass side pin should show 12 volts when the key is turned on. this also send power to the fi double relay to turn on the fi brain, and to send power to the injectors, which get there ground thru the brain

test for power on the relay board and clean up the fuses then get back to us

Alright, I did some checking of the relay board. I checked it with the diagram and all connections are intact. However, when checking for continuity, i found that both pins on both the cold start and the aux air reg have continuity with pin six on my 12 pin connector. Since it was unplugged from the relay board their was no power, but should this be that way or do i have a problem with my harness that needs fixing? Also i have one wire connected to the back passenger side of my relay baord, its yellow, and connects to the relay by the battery. it connects to the bottom right of this set of four connectors. I also only hav eon circle relay which is for my heater, should I have more?

1.8L 1974 L-jet

Thanks for any comments, Adam

wiring scares me. Do yourself a favor, if youve been cranking the motor much w/o spark, change the oil, she may be full of gas! Ask me how i know...no on the other hand dont.

QUOTE (adamd1514 @ May 24 2005, 11:05 AM)

1.8L 1974 L-jet

Clay Perrine is one of the Club's AFC experts.

search for him in the Members list, send him a PM with a link to this thread.
he's very knowledgeable and helpful but he might just not have seen this thread.

i'm sorry i can't be more help but you're into an area in which i have NO experience and there's nothing more i am qualified to add...

the ignition on a L-Jet is just like that of a carb..the FI has no bearing on it...the FI needs the coil and that's about it for thier relationship

QUOTE

when the ignition is turned off i get no (+) power. Anyone have any remedies to this problem?

you do NOT want power to the coil when the key is turned off, this is a good way to kill the ignition (if electronic) or worse case, overheat and blowup the coil....

Alrightey then, i'll put my two cents in.

Note: I have done much troubleshooting on points ignitions. Cars, trucks, and motorcycles. Ign systems using breaker points all work, generally speaking, the same way.

First things first.

The coil needs power. Check for 12V at the + terminal on the coil with ign ON.

Verify that you have continuity from the neg terminal on the coil to ground with the points closed. Do this with the points closed and ign off. You may have to turn engine by hand to get points closed for this test. If yo don't have this, well, you need this.

Verify that you have NO continuity from the neg terminal on the coil to ground with points open. If you have continuity then your points system is grounding somewhere it shouldn't be.

Like Mueller said, make sure the coil is not left on or you will fry it.

Let us know what's up after testing those three things and I'll go from there.

As stated, there's absolutely nothing special about the ignition on L-Jet. It operates the same way as the ignition for carbs.

If you're looking at the relay board, I suspect you're looking at the wrong place. The trick with electrical systems is to not be frightened of them, and be methodical. Start at one end of the circuit and go to the other. If you try to start in the middle, you're only confusing yourself.

In any no-start problem, start with the spark, as you're doing. Pull out a spark plug (any spark plug, doesn't have to be one that's in the engine now), hook it up to a plug wire, place the electrode end of the plug against the engine case (someplace where it's grounded), and have someone else turn the engine over. Don't be touching the plug while they do this. You should see a spark. If you see a spark, then chances are it's a fuel problem, not an ignition problem.

If you don't, then repeat that test, but use the center wire in the distributor, the one that goes from the coil to the distributor cap. Disconnect it from the cap and put a spark plug there. See if you get a spark now. If you do, then the rotor or cap is bad, so replace them.

If you don't, then you go to the next thing. Is there a wire from the points to the - post of the coil? Is that wire any good? Sometimes, it can look good, but the connector isn't on properly. Test it electrically with a meter. You should get continuity between the connector and one side of the points. Verify with a meter that the points are actually opening and closing.

If all that checks out, switch on the ignition and ensure that the wire to the + post of the coil has +12v on it (test between the post and ground). If you don't have +12, now you need to start digging into wiring diagrams. I'd start at the ignition switch and work my way towards the coil.

If it does have +12, then check and double check the ignition timing. Timing that's way off (esp if it's 180d out, as it would be if the plug wires were on incorrectly) will prevent it from starting even with a spark. You'll need to do a static timing test, so set the engine to TDC on cylinder one, and make sure the rotor is pointing at the correct plug wire for cylinder 1. The rest of the cylinders should be 4, 3, 2 in clockwise order around the cap.

If the timing checks out but you still have no spark, try replacing the condensor (it's cheap). If that doesn't fix it, try another coil (not as cheap as the condensor, but still not expensive).

If you get to this point and you still have no spark, you skipped something.

I just now found time to get a reply to this posted. Sorry for the delay.

This sounds like you don't have ignition. If the gauges aren't working, but the dash lights are, then it's probably more basic than a simple no-spark condition.

But let's start there to be thorough.

On the coil, you should have 2 low voltage terminals, labeled "1" and "15".

Terminal "1" should have a fairly small black with a purple tracer wire, a white wire, and the green wire from the distributor points connected to it.

Terminal "15" should have a larger black with a red tracer wire connected to it. Take a test light and hook the wire from it to the negative side of the coil. Touch the point on the test light to the positive side of the battery (to verify the test light actually works!!!!).

Remove the black with a red tracer wire from pin 15 on the coil, and hook it to the point on the test light. The light should not be lit. Turn the key to the on position. The light should light up.

If it does not light up, remove the 12 pin connector from the relay board. It will be located on the right rear of the relay board. Take the test light and ground it somewhere close to the relay board. A good place is where the ground point is just in front of the relay board on the inside wall of the engine compartment.

Touch the point of the light to pin 7 of the 12 pin connector that is part of the relay board. To find pin 7, you look for the row of pins on the driver's side of the plug, and count 3 up from the rear. With the key off, the test light should be off. With the key on, the test light should light.

If it lights, the problem is in the engine harness. If it doesn't we move to the next step.

Unplug the 14 pin connector on the front of the relay board. Match the plug up to the relay board and find pin 8. It is the center pin in the back row. Touch the test light to the female pin in the harness that matches pin 8 on the relay board. With the key off, the test light should be off. With the key on, the test light should light.

If it lights up, replace the relay board. If it doesn't, we need to move farther up the harness.

Now it gets fun.. We need to move inside the car and find the fuse box. It is located under the dash on the left side.

Using the test light grounded to the light switch in the door jamb, check both sides of fuse 9 to see if the light comes on with the key on. Fuse 9 is the fourth fuse from the right on the fuse block. If the test light does not light, then we have to move on to the ignition switch. If it lights on both sides of the fuse, then we have a broken wire between the fuse box and the relay board (not likely, unless someone has cut up the harness at some time or another).


Now you need to drop the knee pad from the bottom of the dash so we can get to the ignition switch. Two little screws in the outboard ends of the kneepad, and IIRC, 8 bigger ones along the bottom. Then just pull it away from the insturment panel to remove it.

Now on the back of the ignition switch, we need to check the heavy red wire to see if it has power. IF the car will crank over but not fire, then the heavy red wire has power. With the ignition switch plugged into the harness, turn the key on, and use the test light to see if the black wire has power. If it doesn't, replace the electrical portion of the igniton switch.


This shoud get you started on troubleshooting your ignition problems. When you get a spark, then we can start on the L-jet injection repairs.

I just found a brass connector under my trip odometer that wasnt all the way pushed in.There is like 8-10 push in connections..This I believe was one of the reasons it wouldnt start...I guess you might call it a junction box...I pushed it in and she started.Was only out a 1/8-->1/16 of an inch..........