Hey everyone. I pulled my motor and trans today. Bought this car frim a dealer. Maybe some will remember the story. Anyway as i suspected the heads and cylinder look new. Pistons are marked 92.95 so im guessing it's a 1.8? Heads have a number stamped 080124 I was wondering if anyone could maybe tell me anything about these. The pistons are dished.

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Need to see the combustion chambers (other side). They've definitely been rebuilt thought. Those valve retainers aren't stock. EDIT: After seeing pictures on a full computer screen, those are stock retainers.

Thanks for the Info Mark. That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Someone with better knowledge than myself, this being my first 914. Here is another shot. Hope you can see what you are looking for. I'm guessing it was just a budget 1.8 upgrade? The case number makes me think it was the original block rebuilt. Looks like the case was split. I see red ETC sealent on all the case bolts.

I pulled this because I felt I was getting minor overheating after 30 mins of freeway driving on hot days. 240+ also a sound on acceleration. I can only describe as a popping coming through the carbs. I'm running dual 40 Kadrons. It did made the same sound with a single carb setup. And with dual 34 webers. Also compression was only 94-100psi on all four cylinders. Heads may have been loose. When I checked them before I pulled them off I could have tightened the inside nuts before I got to 24PSI. Maybe leaky jugs? All four jugs have a shim between them and the block.

Appears to have been running rather rich,are your compression checks on a cold or warm engine,if a warm engine they aren't great.
As Mark suggested the heads have done little work,perhaps fitted fairly recently,best to show a pic of the other head but can't see leakage on the one you have shown.
Sorry but when I read "dealer" the alarm bells rang.

Other head looks the same. No visible leaking marks. The compression check was done on a warm engine. I agree with the dealer comment. But the body was a solid Arizona car with solid he'll holes and floors. 1 respray over the original Adriatic blue and decent interior. I. The end I pass 4000.00 and got all new brakes, new master cylinder, rotors, pads and 4 rebuilt calipers. It also had steel beaded lines. It was a decent deal. My guess was the car had been sitti g for awhile. I almost feel like someone went through the motor and the heads needed to be retorqued. Maybe whoever had it couldn't do the work so it sat? I'm not sure.

Are those shims/ gaskets needed between the cylinders and the case? Technically those are gaskets that I e read should or shouldn't be There? There is some debate to it? Or am i thinking of the wrong thing?

At this point im wondering what direction to go. Plan was to reseal and torque the heads correctly and make sure I do the valve adjustment correctly. Try dialing in the jetting now that I know what the engine size is. Any other suggestions? I'll try to post some better pictures tomorrow. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

Scott

From the couple letters I can see in the first picture, the casting looks to be 021-101-371S. Which is for a 1.8 head.
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Now that I can see the pictures on a full screen (was on my phone last night), the valve retainers ARE stock.

And after lightening them significantly in Photoshop, the combustion chamber photos are 1.8 shape.
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I also don't see any machining marks on the ring around the cylinder seat. This area gets machined when the cylinder seating surface gets machined.
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Also, the divot/dot on the exhaust valve means they're stock sodium-filled valves, which are very hard to find out and of dubious benefit. Most rebuilders don't spend the time to find sodium-filled valves when they rebuild because it's only worth the effort for a specific reason (someone demands them in their engine or some race-rule-book says they need stock valves).

So the bottom line is that they look like an original, untouched set of 1.8 heads.

From what' I'm seeing in the pictures and what I'm reading of your description, my intuition and experience leads me to believe that you, unfortunately, pulled and disassembled the motor for nothing. Popping from the carbs is an indicator of lean tuning (not enough fuel). Overheating can also come with lean running. I think the problems you were experience had more to do with your carbs than the motor.

But now you have it apart, so you should do a quick refresh on the heads. Get the surface flycut, get the valves ground. Then remove the cylinder base gaskets (between the case and cylinders, no it's not necessary) as well as the head gaskets if you have them. These two gaskets being removed with bump the compression slightly, as will flycutting the heads. This will bring up your compression numbers slightly and add a bit of performance.

You could just reassemble as well. But if nothing else, remove the head gaskets if there are any.

Post more (WELL LIT!) pictures of the rest of the engine as it sits now. I may be able to interpret more about your setup and help choose what the best next step is.

Forgot to address this as well. Kadrons can be made to work, but I feel the work necessary to make Kadrons work well isn't worth the effort when a set of IDFs is pretty cheap and much easier to set up. I would strongly urge you to change directions there, unless there's a profound reason you need to run Kadrons.

Thanks for all that great info. So are you thinking these could have been NOS Heads? They look so new. I can't imaging them being run very long. There is also a hand written number 54 on each head written with a sharpy. The popping I described did not sound like the typical carb popping. (More like the sound loose heads sound like on a type 1) And it made the same noise with the single Webber. A set of 34 ICTs and these Kads. I do know for sure I had an intake leak. I couldn't for the life of me get to the 2 bottom intake manifold nuts enought to get them very tight. I'd like to stick with the Kads only because of having to spend more money on another set of carbs. But I'm open to a set of Webers. What size would you suggest for 1.8l?

The cylinders have no wear lip that I can feel and still seem to have the noticible Cross hatching. So I'm still concerned about the lower compression test results. I was expecting to find something that would explain that. Here is a few more photos. Let me know if you need to see anything specific. I really appreciate the time you took to analyze my photos! By the way. I'm starting a paint job on this car and that's another reason why I pulled the motor. I'm planning on painting and detailing the engine compartment.

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I wanted to add. My goal for this car is to have reliable running car for me and the wife. Speed and racing is not needed. Just a reliable weekend driver. It's plenty fast the way it was. It was that noise that was worrying me. Perhaps it was just the intake leak? Seem to go away at cruising. More noticeable on acceleration.

These head probably have had some attention in the past. The stamped number you originally quoted is probably from the rebuilder. The sharpie 54 could be the combustion chamber volume, but that's quite low for an untouched head, so if that is in fact the volume measurement then they've been flycut. Also, the exhaust valve seem a little deeper/sunk into the valve seat. This happens as the valve and seat are reground -- material is removed which sinks the valve deeper.

So what could be happening is that if they did flycut the cylinder sealing surface, maybe they neglected to machine the ring I pointed out above. Check the depth of the lip in the head, and make sure it smaller than the lip on the cylinder. On the parts I used to take these pictures, the head depth is 6.3mm and the cylinder lip height is 7mm. Those are good readings. If the head depths is greater, it means the first cylinder cooling fin will contact the head and keep the cylinder from sealing against the head.

Thanks again Mark. So if i'm understanding this, that could have caused a leak between the cylinder and head mating surfaces? If that's the case would i expect to see some kind of sign of that leak from burnt gases leaking through there? I did no cleaning on these heads and I couldn't see any signs of a leak. I don't have a micrometer. Guess this a a reason to finally get one! I will do that measurement. I'm assuming that if the head depth is greater than the lip on the cylinder then I will have to get the heads machined to correct it? Or are there shims I can use?

Also I wanted to add that since I got this car road worthy I've maybe put 500 miles on it. Ive done 2 compression checks. The first was on a slightly warmed engine and i got about 90-95psi on all 4 cylinders after a valve adjustment. After maybe 300 miles of driving I checked the compression again and got lightly better readings. I think they were about 100-110psi. My feeling was that this car had been sitting awhile and maybe the compression would get better with some driving. But now it looks like it doesn't have many miles on this motor since this work was done. Do you think there is a chance that maybe the rings have not been fully seated yet? I know this is wild speculation. I'm just trying to get a more professional guess.

Scott

See if this hole goes all the way through to the exhaust. I'm not sure why one is open large like that.

The EA case number indicates a 1.7. So you've got a rebuilt motor there (in the loosest definition). It doesn't mean it was built correctly and apparently there's some uncertainty about what the motor actually is. So I'd recommend you spend some time checking things out.

If you still have a cylinder head off, rotate the motor until one piston is all the way down at the bottom of the cylinder. Make sure the cylinder is pressed tight against the case and measure from the top of the cylinder to the top of the piston. Report back with that.

Also, confirm the piston measurement. It sounds like they're 93mm, but double check.

I would also pull the oil pump and see if the cam number is stamped on the end, or if it's the stock cam.

Having all this info will be beneficial in getting a motor that works well.

The ones from Harbor Freight are perfectly fine.

The solution would be to machine the 'ring' until the head depth is less than the cylinder lip height.

No way to know. Nobody can give you that answer.

Will do all of this as I want to know as much as I can while I have it out. Thanks!

For now this is what it looks like down that larger hole. Looks like there is an Allen head bolt in there and was tapped. I'm able to get an Allen wrench on it and it is loosening. Almost afraid to take it out. Could this have been tapped for a sensor?Click to view attachment

It was an emissions port. There was piping originally that would let some of the exhaust gas back into the intake to be 'reburned'.

That is a suitable blockoff, but if it's loose, pull it out and add some sealant, then put it back. Be aware that it may not tighten against anything, so you may just have to stop and let the sealant firm up. Ideally you'd want a sealant that hardens. Loctite would work.

Alternatively you could look for a M10x1.0 bolt that's 50-55mm long and thread that in.
https://www.mcmaster.com/#96144a266/=18tp14s

Look in the exhaust port, sort of behind the valve stem, and find the other end of that hole. Once you've found it and you know what it looks like, look in the other exhaust ports and see if they have similar holes. Just to be sure.

Ok. So measured the stroke of the piston from bottom to top of cylinder I got 68.3 as close as I can tell. That is with the shim which measures 0.8. Pistons measure 92.8.
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The original stroke options were 66mm or 71mm. So it sounds like you've got the 66mm crank and 93mm pistons, which is the 1.8 combo. But they just started with a 1.7 engine and rebuilt it with an 'upgrade'. I use quotes because they could have just as easily installed 96mm pistons and cylinders and had a real upgrade. You still could do the swap if you feel like spending the money (parts link).

Still these step left...
1. Make sure the heads aren't hitting the heads and not sealing.
2. Pull the oil pump and inspect the cam (if you're inclined). Reseal with Loctite 518.
3. Reassemble everything.

Ok Thanks! I think I will do that upgrade. I'll work on checking out the cam here in the next day or two. Thanks for the link. So a set of dual 40 IDFs as well uh?

Depending on the cam, you can probably run stock fuel injection if you've got it.

Hey Mark. I do not have any FI parts so this will be carburated. Got the oil pump off. I don't see any marking and not sure what to look for to be honest. I tried searching around but didn't have any luck with Info on markings. I did read that stock cams have rhe cam gear rivited and an aftermarket gear is bolted? Am i to assume then this is an after market cam?Click to view attachment

Your assumption is correct

Thanks! So would it also be safe to assume that it's prob a ly a "webcam" ? Reading the forums that seems to be the popular upgrade. I guess when I get it back together I could measure the valve movement to see which cam. Or is there only one configuration available?

Assuming it's a webcam is a crap shoot. Lots of cam manufacturers.

Ahh. Ok thank you!

So I've torn my motor down to a short block. I noticed these marks on the number 2 and 4 cylinder block side. They look like they were made recently. Only thing I think could hit there would be the piston skirts. But I would think it would have chipped off an edge to do that and I see no marks on the pistons (which were stamped AA) Anyone seen this clearance issue before? Took a few more shots of the inside as well.

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Here are a few shots of the internals if anyone notices anything good or bad I'd appreciate the info.
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Not Webcam or Scat, they are marked.
If it's not an FI cam a stock FI system will not work with it.

I also have a bolt on unmarked mystery cam, with a perfect set of matched lifters, one day I'll have to measure it to see what it is.

Thanks! When I bought this car it had a single progressive. I'm now running a set of dual Kads. I haven't decided if I want to try and dial these in or spend more money for a set of webers. I will be changing the piston sets though. Going for a 1.9.

Well, yeah, the cam is definitely a mystery. I think it may be a reground stock cam, but that could still be anything. But a couple other things I see:

1. There appears to be wear marks on the cam gear bolts. Will you please post a picture of both sides of the oil pump? (front & back)

2. There appears to be a contact point with the case. You're replacing the pistons, so as long as you but the right ones this should be a problem.
3. The rods are definitely 1.7/1.8 because of the balancing pad on the top of the rod (red circle).

Mark I just reinstalled the oil pump today and didnt get any pictures of it. I'm guessing that the highest point would be the studs that hold the pump together.I did not see any wear marks there. Pumped looked ok. I took it apart, cleaned it, oiled it and put a new o ring before putting it back together.

The contact points you see where it appears the piston skirt contacted. What would cause that? I do plan on buying the AA set you recommended. Should that still be ok? As I mentioned, The pistons did not show any signs contact.

The marks could have been from a previous build. Or when they installed the 93mm pistons, they first tried some 2.0 pistons, which could have contacted there. Regardless, carry forward and just keep that potential contact point in mind if anything seems off....

Looks like the cam lobe and lifter face are pitting,as well as the side of the opposite lifter.

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I see that Bob. I have a feeling this car may have sat for awhile before it was sold to me. The pitting seems to be on the back sides of the lobes. As well as some on the areas that don't contact the lifters. The lifters themselves look really good. Almost new looking IMO. Don't really want to split the case right now. I've put maybe 500 mile on this motor since I got it. I was Hoping to get 10.000 miles at least to give me time to purchase a new motor or do a total rebuild on this. What do you guys think?


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Look fine after seeing the additional pictures. You know which lifter came from which hole, right?

Good to hear! Yes I'm keeping them in order along with the pushrods.

Good to hear! Yes im keeping them in order along with the push rods.