I got hit recently. the other drivers insurance has accepted full liability (yay!) but now they are trying to declare my car a total loss.

the good news:
- they aren't arguing condition, they are categorizing it excellent
- we're in the ballpark, they are valuing it at about the amount of the repair estimate, $22k

the bad news:
- they still want to total it

I don't want to allow it to be totaled because if I buy it back and repair it and am hit again I figure it really hurts my value for the next claim (which hopefully never happens, but...).

I can find plenty of threads on choosing an insurance provider, but didn't find much on arguing value. So
- any tips/help with establishing value for cars that are in excellent shape?
- any tips/help for strategy on fighting (and winning) with one of the major insurance providers?

I'm looking to collect comps in the $28k+ range (since that's what I need to avoid the total declaration). And yes, I've got the recent $93k car from monterery!

I'm also looking into lawyer options, figuring that can't hurt. Not sure how to go about finding a good lawyer to help with an unusual car value.

any help appreciated.

Click to view attachment

Sorry , this is everybody's worst nightmere

But it looks like its totaled to me ?


And no way you could reproduce this car
Before the hit for 22k more like 29k $

With that paint , does not look cheap .

When the insurance company doesnt even
Know " what kinda car this is " how can you even expect
To get a fair shake



Drink a shot of johnnie blue and try to forget

There's a lawer who advertises in the local PCA magazine that he takes dimished value cases. Is that what you're looking for?

I can find plenty of threads on choosing an insurance provider, but didn't find much on arguing value. So
- any tips/help with establishing value for cars that are in excellent shape?
- any tips/help for strategy on fighting (and winning) with one of the major insurance providers?

















Grundy
Agreed value , thats that

I drove it from the site of the accident to the body shop and its supposed to be totaled? the reason the repair is so high is because of all the body work that had already been done that has to be replicated!

I realize that's me trying to use rationale arguments with the insurance industry, but...

Sorry to hear about your car. It looks like a beauty.


In late 2011 I rebuilt and upgraded the entire drive train in my 86 944 Turbo. I rebuilt, upgraded and/or replaced everything from the air filter to the tail pipe. Less than a month after finishing it, I go rear ended on the freeway. My car ended up being totaled but I didn't really fight them on that, I just wanted a reasonable settlement.

So my situation was not exactly like yours but i did the insurance company song and dance. The guy who hit me had nationwide insurance and despite their smarmy commercials, they absolutely NOT on my side.

My first advice based on that experience is don't be in a rush. They seemed to want to get me to settle as fast as possible for as little as possible.

My second piece of advice is be prepared for them to lie to you about everything. About a month into my experience I got a call from someone in their claims department pushing me to settle soon because the daily storage charges on my car were starting to take a big chunk of the money I would receive when I finally did settle. Our conversation was not pleasant for her because I knew she was lying. I knew that I was not getting charged storage fees because my wrecked car was sitting in MY GARAGE!!! She didn't even seem embarrassed to be caught in a bold faced lie.

I waited a long time and when nationwide stopped moving forward, I got my insurance involved through my agent whom I had been dealing with for years for home, auto, business, and life insurance. Knowing my agent and especially his staff was extremely helpful in getting a proper settlement. The final settlement was more than double the original offer and it included me getting the car back.

So, take your time, fight for everything you want and bring in your own insurance if you don't get what you want from the other drivers.

Best of luck.

Then you tell me you drove it

Is the car bent or is it just cosmetics

Because for a 914 inspired perfomance driveing the car will see

High loads and structural integrity is critical






Could you drive it to a tire shop and have it aligned / wheel and tires alignment?

If so then id say your good to repaire it

If not then by bye

aside from needing an alignment (and getting embarrassing attention due to the looks of the front!) I didn't notice any issues w/ the car. I probably drove 15+ miles after the accident.

I am very sorry to see such carnage. It was sure beautiful.

on values, I would look at Excellence, BAT, cars sold on this site close to your level Research as many sales close to your options and fit and finish. You want massive irrefutable documentation on values.

Next classic car only go with Agreed Value insurance. Haggerty, American Classic, Grundy, etc, then you won't have to go this route.

thanks Rick. problem is that it's my daily driver. I haven't been able to find any agreed value policies that will take a DD.

OMG that makes me ,such a nice car,sorry I don't see that cost in the repair.
Front cut welded in the ,paint is fresh so little cost there ,however I don't know labour rates in the USA,without seeing more pics I may be off beat but.....
Edit .....sorry didn't read your reply,you mentioned driving the car in that case it would surely pull out on a rack,again don't see that repair cost.

Grundy is no mileage restrictions. Come on man

Like Porschetub is also mentioning...does not look too bad to me that it should be totalled. Looks very repairable for a professioal shop. You mention it is because of all the bodywork that was done already. That is something I cannot see/judge from the pics.
I hope it turns out ok.
I know you don't want to think of this...but an alternative Plan D could be taking the 22K with keeping the car and sell the car to Europe for 5K. That gives you 27K and the car will have its next life across the big pond.
Again...i hope it works out for you...

Send it to Kent........he can fix that.

thanks everyone. no issues with getting it fixed. a big part of the cost is color matching the 3 stage paint that's on it.

Looking for help with valuation and fighting with insurance.

Went through similar when my mother was hit and totaled in her fairly pristine 4 year Accord.

The proposed settlement was well below market value with much pressure to accept a quick settlement. We collected all sorts of comps which was easy to do on that car. Additionally Snake Farm and her agent of 30+ years promised to fight for her to get market value from the other driver's insurance company. That fight fizzled quickly.

Ultimately she ended up settling for several thousand below market as she needed a car and couldn't afford to keep paying for a rental - the fight wasn't worth it to her.

One of the issues we had with comps was for every one we had, they had a lower comp, generally for cars of more mileage and lesser condition, but a comp in their favor. Additionally they argued the higher comps came from sale ads, thus selling price was likely significantly lower. I've fought similar battles on home appraisals - make the comps show the desired value... It's difficult to establish comps in your case, especially given you are on the high end and don't have verifiable selling prices for other cars out there.

Given insurance laws and consumer protection laws vary from state-to-state, I'd consult an attorney and see what your rights are, and see what he/she recommends.

Good luck, and BTW, she looks beautiful despite the damage - fix her if possible and keep her going.

Get a lawyer to deal with the insurance issues for you. They know the insurance and outs and will argue your case. You will do better than on your own. Many personal injury firms have someone who only deals with insurance companies.

First off, I don't see a totaled car, I see a damaged car. It crumpled right where it was supposed to by design. The bulkhead "looks" to be just fine, or perhaps I'm not seeing the big picture. If this was a 356 I bet it would be repaired.

It reads as though your major problem is it is a DD. So a used Honda for now?

Yep, you can hire a lawyer but the charge may outweigh the result you desire.

Patience, as others have mentioned. The insurance companies job is to pay you as little as possible, your job is to get as much as you can.

What ever the outcome, avoid the vehicle being assigned a salvage title........that is always the death blow to future value.

Paint match is not a big deal. The boys have it down to science.

Fuck Brad! Speechless! don't accept a branded title. Your car is not totaled. You didn't mention it being your DD to anyone did you? Don't you normally use sound transit? Hint, hint.

So sorry to see this Brad, that's such a beautiful car. I would call John Kincl @360.895.1766. He is a long time auto appraiser who has dealt extensively with insurance companies on exactly this issue. I've seen him get some great results for people I know. He would probably do an appraisal of the car and work from there. Tell him Marc Ogren sent you. I've known him for over 25 years.

Good luck.

Where did this incident happen?

just north of greenlake. I was stopped trying to get across 85th, the other driver just plowed right into me. go figure.

no figuring this out. No matter how hard I try.

Bradtho, I not an expert, but.......there's a statement in all insurance policies that says (THEY HAVE TO MAKE YOU WHOLE), which means what is the real replacement value.......If you tried to buy (replace) your 914 with nothing less than you have...what is that price. Is it 22k or29k. If it is 29k then your good.
I used this over the last 30 years with two small accidents I had...first one was with a Saab (it was totaled) Insurance was only willing to pay $4,500 when it was worth $6,500. To prove this to the insurance company I did all the leg work to find a replacement Saab, same year and miles. Guess what, the price to $6,800. They sent a check for 6,800. The second was last year. My 2000 VW TDI with 400,000 miles was totaled. Insurance again said it was worth 2,000. Yup, high miles but well maintained with new injectors, timing belt, new trans., etc. Showed them replacement cost would be 5,000. I agreed on 4,500 and also removed the new transmission. So, go find a car as nice as yours and use that for leaverage. Best, Mark

I think you need to pull out the BBQ and invite us all over to your place for a wake. Not that the car should be totaled, just as an excuse to stand around and mull over the damages.

Looky here:

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/RecentSales.htm

Sorry to hear this.

My 1st 914 was totaled as well.
I was with Haggerty

I got a check from them for agreed value no problem.

On top of this I was able to buy the car back and the title was re-issued clean not salvaged.

When I asked about it, they responded by saying there is a percentage calculation they conduct and if the damage falls between these two number they can re-issue a clean title

Having the clean title allowed me to sell the damaged car to someone who loved 914 and owned his own shop.

Hope this helps

Mike

First of all, you (& they) should be using the Hagerty insurance classic & collector car valuation tool - NOT either KBB nor NADA - which are both BS on anything over 20 years old & especially if collectable.

Look up their website, then print out their chart & definitions to use for your battle, along with the Comps you can find.

Don't hesitate to threaten or use a lawyer if they still waffle at the Hageerty & Comps values!

Also, do not accept them to total it - period.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

Can't help with the insurance but that can certainly be fixed by a reputable shop with a Celette bench.

There's no way i would accept a total loss on that car ...

My first 914 was also totaled by one illegal alien these another illegal alien how to drive. When it came time to settle with my ins co. I was told that Porsches are not worth as much because it's winter. This was in the early eighties when Auto trader was are internet. I got copies of there Calif editions cut and pasted 10 cars like mine, averaged the high and low and asked for the middle price. I had all this on a large piece of paper. The ins guys jaw hit the floor. I remember him telling me know one had ever done this before. He settled my claim on the spot.

Also ask for a full repaint and or find a repair shop that will paint the whole car with the ins settlement money.

thanks Mike, was this in Michigan? the titling issues are part of what I'm having a hard time learning about, probably since it varies from state to state.

I was actually surprised to see the NADA values higher than hagerty, so as always, it pays to shop around.

Is that car a six? Or a conversion? It sure looks not just excellent, but exceptional.

It also makes me think of this as a legitimate comp:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1975-porsche-914-6-gt/

Your car actually looks nicer, and that's sayin' something in this case. Definitely do not accept your car being totaled. Seems like $35-55k is the current range for really good six conversions, which makes some sense given that top examples of the 914-6 have been trading for $85-130k.

thanks Pete. the car is still a 1.7. I have a 3.2 and all the fixin's all ready to go in, but it isn't in yet.

Brad - If you want more info on John, give me a call - Four-two-five.235.8383. He's a good guy to have in your corner and way cheaper than a lawyer. He's got all the sources for establishing value and the insurance companies don't like to see him coming.

OK - $22K Excellent Condition... for a stock car.....

Plus

15 x 7 911 Fuch Wheels $2,000
Full 911 Suspension - $4,000
Metallic Paint and ClearCoat - $5000
Plus
Plus
Plus

you get the idea...


Don't want to value the parts? OK, I'll take $22K plus the car as is. If there's no decision in 48 hours, I'll hand the matter over to legal counsel and not return any phone calls.

And my neck kind of hurts now...

Nothing against Grundy, I would have gone with them, but they do have restrictions including no daily drivers.

"Like any other vintage car insurance provider, Grundy has some restrictions. Your car must be stored inside a locked garage when not in use; you must have a daily driver vehicle for each licensed driver in your household in addition to the classic vehicle; and the car must be in excellent condition. The vehicle should only be used for collector activities, but one feature that sets Grundy apart from many other classic antique auto insurance providers is that they do not have a mileage limitation. Many antique classic car insurance companies have limits ranging from 1,000 miles up to 6,000 miles per year, but with Grundy Nationwide you can drive the car to as many distant car shows as you like without worrying about exceeding a yearly mileage limit."


Grundy Classic Car Insurance – A Review of Their Benefits and Restrictions

Try contacting your state's Insurance commission and tell them you're not getting a full value settlement offer for your loss. This may work before committing to the expense of an attorney. I had to do this very thing myself for 68 911 I restored and unfortunately was totaled in an accident when I let a friend drive it... The ins co offered me a low ball offer and after going back and forth with them for about two weeks I contacted the commission and then after also writing a letter to them with details on the condition with comp values, the insurance company offered me the fair market value two weeks later. I ultimately negotiated $1000 less in the settlement to be able to keep the wreckage and I sold parts for four years after.

Yes

It was in Michigan

If you decide to have the unibody pulled and straightened, Queen City in Redmond specializes in Porsches and is the only local shop certified by Porsche to do the repairs correctly. They have a Celette table and all you need to make your baby whole again. They have worked on both my cars and wife's A6 and their work is flawless.

My experience has always been insurance companies want to settle fast so if you aren't in a hurry, drag it out, they pay more as time goes. Also, getting an attorney involved might help, or threaten to get an attorney, tell them you have a name of an attorney, give them the name, say that's the next step.
Bottom line though is if you do your research and it's sound, stand by it, hold your ground. You will probably get 90% of what you want.

I was going to suggest Scott Yeaman. Not only could he fix that, he would fight the insurance adjuster. Allstate would have no idea what the value could be. When the 'dreaded rock' incident occurred with my car, the adjuster tried to total it over the phone. Scott told him to get his tail down there and that 914 values were going up fast and mine was one of the finest he'd seen. After the guy saw the car, he didn't question anything Scott said.

I think you'd be wise to truck it down to Palo Alto.

Sad story,,with a happy ending...Gold 914

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF0wMDJhAsc

..............."next claim?" just get another better company who like classic cars better.

2 year old post

Great to see that car repaired and back on the road!

This will work itself out eventually. They have taken responsibility. I'm assuming you are in a loaner. Costs go up daily for them time is on your side.

The case is simple, be reasonable. You need to replace the vehicle with one equal to or better than. They will not be able to. I'd put your value over 35k and then you will not find an exact equal. Just a different version.

You can be reasonable as long as they are. If they can't resolve this to your satisfaction you can bring in a attorney. Most will do a free consult (check with the WA Bar association for a list) it may cost your $500 for a letter, but most adjusters make money buy diminishing your claim so this a negotiation as simple as that. You need to be made WHOLE.