I was noticing lately that the Pelican board was getting weak in the areas of real good 914 posts. You know, less racing/autocross posts and more questions on how to remove the driver's seat and whats your favorite color. Now I know where everyone went! Glad I found you 'all.
I just ran my first autox last Sunday after cutting the roof and windshield off and adding a "semi" tube frame. I would have had FTD if I didn't hit that f-ing cone that moved on me. I'll post some pics of the car (semi-car) tonight when I get home.
Full Version: Now I know where everybody went...
You gotta watch out for the *walking cones*
Hey glad you made the long trip to over here!!! Remember no lurking allowed...
I am really pissed that they allow the corner worker's to hook up string to the cones so they can move the suckers when you least expect it!!
Post some pics of the car with the mods, plus here the postings files can be bigger!!
Geoff
I am really pissed that they allow the corner worker's to hook up string to the cones so they can move the suckers when you least expect it!!
Post some pics of the car with the mods, plus here the postings files can be bigger!!
Geoff
It's about time you showed up.
I'm sure that as time passes that there will be more of the
.....ah...more basic type posts here. I'm sure that Brad means the site to be all inclusive.
I, like yourself, am more interested in the more hard core
racin' topics, tho ( even tho I'm a lowely conehead). There seems to be a higher percentage of those here.
Geoff is right, we need pics of your car. I"m always lookin' to steal some good ideas
I'm sure that as time passes that there will be more of the
.....ah...more basic type posts here. I'm sure that Brad means the site to be all inclusive.
I, like yourself, am more interested in the more hard core
racin' topics, tho ( even tho I'm a lowely conehead). There seems to be a higher percentage of those here.
Geoff is right, we need pics of your car. I"m always lookin' to steal some good ideas
Hey URY914,
What kept you so long?
Post pics of the car a.s.a.p.!
Cheers,
Jeroen
What kept you so long?
Post pics of the car a.s.a.p.!
Cheers,
Jeroen
Ok, here are some shots. It is NOT complete. I've still got to weld in the X door bars on the passenger side, fab a fiberglass cowl and passenger door and then do the rear fenders and roll bar in f/g.
more...
during the process...
OK that one was too big, Another try...
Last one for now. Let the flames begin...
Damn, Dude you've got balls!
I'd be scared to death cuttin' that much car!
I'd be scared to death cuttin' that much car!
Welcome URY,
I didnt feel right about going on the other lists and "telling everybody" where we where. It has given us some time to iron this thing out. I do plan a mass mailing to all the people who have posted to the old classifieds letting them know "hey we are over here now"
Car looks great. It appears your heading down the correct path. There is only one bar that concerns me. I'll explain later.
B
I didnt feel right about going on the other lists and "telling everybody" where we where. It has given us some time to iron this thing out. I do plan a mass mailing to all the people who have posted to the old classifieds letting them know "hey we are over here now"
Car looks great. It appears your heading down the correct path. There is only one bar that concerns me. I'll explain later.
B
I realize the tubing is not the correct diameter for road racing. It is a autox car only with the intent to be as stiff AND as light as possible. Brad, it is not done yet and I may decide to change things still, so let me know your concerns. Also I have not tied the rear end into the main hoop yet. I'll do that when I cut the rear fenders off so I'll have room to work.
Paul
Paul
Hey Paul,
No flames from me, I can only applaud your effort and dedication (all that cutting ain't for the faint at heart)!
Couple of questions though...
why did you choose to have one bar from the main hoop to the front hoop instead of 2 at the sides?
did you start with a bolt-in rollbar/cage (the main hoop)
and most important, what's it weigh now (or what are you aiming at with once the fg rear fenders and targa bar have been installed)?
cheers,
Jeroen
No flames from me, I can only applaud your effort and dedication (all that cutting ain't for the faint at heart)!
Couple of questions though...
why did you choose to have one bar from the main hoop to the front hoop instead of 2 at the sides?
did you start with a bolt-in rollbar/cage (the main hoop)
and most important, what's it weigh now (or what are you aiming at with once the fg rear fenders and targa bar have been installed)?
cheers,
Jeroen
Jeroen,
I decided on the single top bar going to the front for several reasons. I wanted to tie the structure at the top to the middle of the front hoop. The two smaller diagional bars which tie in the the front shock mounts need to be supported and tied into the structure. Also the doors will have X bars to tie the main hoop into the front hoop. I didn't have these in when I took the pics and at the angle of the camera you can't really see the one that is installed. The main hoop was a bolted in Autopower bar from I/O Port. It has since been welded in with big plates at the floor mounts. I will also tie the rear bars into the top of the main hoop. My theory is that no bars should just dead end into a hoop. You need to carry that bar through to the suspension points from front to back. You see what I mean as I keep working on it.
As far as what it weights now, I'm taking it to the PCA Club race at Sebring on Saturday to weight it. I know the roll bar structure is very heavy and the rear fenders also hold alot of bondo from it's years as a street car. My goal was between 1500 to 1600 pounds, but I'm thinking I can get it under 1500.
I decided on the single top bar going to the front for several reasons. I wanted to tie the structure at the top to the middle of the front hoop. The two smaller diagional bars which tie in the the front shock mounts need to be supported and tied into the structure. Also the doors will have X bars to tie the main hoop into the front hoop. I didn't have these in when I took the pics and at the angle of the camera you can't really see the one that is installed. The main hoop was a bolted in Autopower bar from I/O Port. It has since been welded in with big plates at the floor mounts. I will also tie the rear bars into the top of the main hoop. My theory is that no bars should just dead end into a hoop. You need to carry that bar through to the suspension points from front to back. You see what I mean as I keep working on it.
As far as what it weights now, I'm taking it to the PCA Club race at Sebring on Saturday to weight it. I know the roll bar structure is very heavy and the rear fenders also hold alot of bondo from it's years as a street car. My goal was between 1500 to 1600 pounds, but I'm thinking I can get it under 1500.
Hey Paul,
I noticed the x-bars at the driverside door
Since you don't need the full protection of door-bars, how about something like this?
cheers,
Jeroen
I noticed the x-bars at the driverside door
Since you don't need the full protection of door-bars, how about something like this?
cheers,
Jeroen
I think that you shouldn't have a 90 degree connection without a diagonal brace. In your drawing the front hoop needs a diagonal at the bottom. I forgot to say this before but I feel you need diagonal bracing everywhere you can. Look at an old picture of a 917. There is a diagonal brace even running over the top of the engine.
It is like a gate on a fence. the gate will sag and drag until you put that diagonal in from one corner to the other and it stiffens it up. Same thing with four pieces of tubing forming a square, throw in a small diameter diagonal from opposite corners and it will be much, much stiffer.
It is like a gate on a fence. the gate will sag and drag until you put that diagonal in from one corner to the other and it stiffens it up. Same thing with four pieces of tubing forming a square, throw in a small diameter diagonal from opposite corners and it will be much, much stiffer.
hey Paul,
hmmm... I beg to differ
(not on the need of diagonal or x-bracing but on the interpretation)
I hope I can put this into words...
I "think" the way you are going now, the chassis will still (slightly) flex diagonally since you have most of the stress focussed at the feet of the front hoop and you only have one bar going from the mainhoop to the center of the front hoop
The bar you have from the top of the front-hoop going to the center of the door-diagonal will make the door diagonal bend
The centered bar you have from the main to the front hoop will only prevent this from happening if both left and right corners are equally loaded
If you have two bars from the top-main to the top-front hoop (one on each side) like in my drawing, the stress from the front top shock mounts is force to the top of the front hoop, and from there to the top and bottom of the main hoop, both going back to the top shock mounts in the back (or vice versa)
Again, I'm no engineer, nor do I play one on tv... just thinking out loud
Lets see if Brad or Tony C can budge in on this...
cheers,
Jeroen
hmmm... I beg to differ
(not on the need of diagonal or x-bracing but on the interpretation)
I hope I can put this into words...
I "think" the way you are going now, the chassis will still (slightly) flex diagonally since you have most of the stress focussed at the feet of the front hoop and you only have one bar going from the mainhoop to the center of the front hoop
The bar you have from the top of the front-hoop going to the center of the door-diagonal will make the door diagonal bend
The centered bar you have from the main to the front hoop will only prevent this from happening if both left and right corners are equally loaded
If you have two bars from the top-main to the top-front hoop (one on each side) like in my drawing, the stress from the front top shock mounts is force to the top of the front hoop, and from there to the top and bottom of the main hoop, both going back to the top shock mounts in the back (or vice versa)
Again, I'm no engineer, nor do I play one on tv... just thinking out loud
Lets see if Brad or Tony C can budge in on this...
cheers,
Jeroen
Wau !!!! I don´t know what to say....... 
That is one of a kind race car !!!!
It is really impressive. If I ever decide to build and have one, I know the way to go now.
That is one of a kind race car !!!!
It is really impressive. If I ever decide to build and have one, I know the way to go now.
You’re defiantly getting there. I’m impressed that you’re taking it this far. Keep the pictures coming as you progress with the project. It’s always nice to see one develop. 
I’m impressed that you’re taking it this far. Keep the pictures coming as you progress with the project. It’s always nice to see one develop.
Jereon,
I see your point and have seen many, many 914s with large diameter bars coming down from the top of the main to the top of the front hoop. It is my feeling that for my car which is only an autox car, that two long bars on each side is not needed. One of the main goals is to keep it light and keep the weight as low as possible to the ground for a lower center of gavatiy. (I even cut the floor out and lowered the battery by an inch.) It may not be stiffest design but like all designs it is a compromise of all the main goals I was trying to achieve. If you were to make a scale of stiffness with perfect being 100, my car may be 95 but it was done at a much lower weight. As it is an autox car, I won't have the loads on the car that a road racer would experance going into a long sweeping corner at 120mph.
I've been taking pictures of 914 roll cages for years and they are all the same and are all differnent at the same time. And everyone will tell you thier way was the best for them.
Thanks for the discussion,
Paul
I see your point and have seen many, many 914s with large diameter bars coming down from the top of the main to the top of the front hoop. It is my feeling that for my car which is only an autox car, that two long bars on each side is not needed. One of the main goals is to keep it light and keep the weight as low as possible to the ground for a lower center of gavatiy. (I even cut the floor out and lowered the battery by an inch.) It may not be stiffest design but like all designs it is a compromise of all the main goals I was trying to achieve. If you were to make a scale of stiffness with perfect being 100, my car may be 95 but it was done at a much lower weight. As it is an autox car, I won't have the loads on the car that a road racer would experance going into a long sweeping corner at 120mph.
I've been taking pictures of 914 roll cages for years and they are all the same and are all differnent at the same time. And everyone will tell you thier way was the best for them.
Thanks for the discussion,
Paul
All right! A dedicated autocrosser! I like what you've done so far, going down your own path. I look forward to seeing futher developments.
A few questions:
What organization and class are you building the car for?
What engine are you running?
What tires/wheels are you going to end up with?
Mike T
A few questions:
What organization and class are you building the car for?
What engine are you running?
What tires/wheels are you going to end up with?
Mike T
I run in PCA and SCCA, in SCCA it is a DP.
1.7, CW crank, big valve heads, 44 Webers, Crane Cam, etc, etc, etc...
Those are 15 x 7 Revolutions with a 5" backspace and in the rear I run them with a 1/4 spacer.
1.7, CW crank, big valve heads, 44 Webers, Crane Cam, etc, etc, etc...
Those are 15 x 7 Revolutions with a 5" backspace and in the rear I run them with a 1/4 spacer.
QUOTE
Those are 15 x 7 Revolutions with a 5" backspace and in the rear I run them with a 1/4 spacer.
Race rubber or DOT?
Mike T
I really have to get ulf weighed. My WAG puts it close to my class (SCCA FP) minumum of 2100 lbs.
If it's too heavy, I'll use Paul's car as an inspiration.....humm, no sawzall smiley ? This is unacceptable.
The tires look like V racers to me. Not badly worn, either.
Light cars are fairly easy on those tires. I have prolly 60 passes on mine and they're about half gone.
If it's too heavy, I'll use Paul's car as an inspiration.....humm, no sawzall smiley ? This is unacceptable.
The tires look like V racers to me. Not badly worn, either.
Light cars are fairly easy on those tires. I have prolly 60 passes on mine and they're about half gone.
JP,
do get it weighed and share..
I'm trying to collect some 6cylinder weights for a baseline and comparison..
I've heard it is very difficult to get a metal (no fiberglass panels allowed for me) bodied -6 to: 2000 lbs, and would love to see what others have been able to accomplish.
brant
do get it weighed and share..
I'm trying to collect some 6cylinder weights for a baseline and comparison..
I've heard it is very difficult to get a metal (no fiberglass panels allowed for me) bodied -6 to: 2000 lbs, and would love to see what others have been able to accomplish.
brant
Good luck Brant.
Our 3.0 factory 914/6 narrow body car with full cage weighs 2300lbs.
All steel. Its a tank.
B
Our 3.0 factory 914/6 narrow body car with full cage weighs 2300lbs.
All steel. Its a tank.
B
The tires are DOT Victor Racers 225/50/15. They are a year old had have about 40 runs on them.
JP, you're right, with a light car you get very little wear on them. I'll replace these with slicks when the time comes.
Paul
JP, you're right, with a light car you get very little wear on them. I'll replace these with slicks when the time comes.
Paul
Hey Mike (T), other than you avitar teaser, there seems to be a lack of pics of your car.
As a founding member of the splinter groupe, CMM Operating 914 Drivin' Coneheads, I deem this unacceptable.
As a founding member of the splinter groupe, CMM Operating 914 Drivin' Coneheads, I deem this unacceptable.
Brad,
I said 2000 lbs was my GOAL. It may not be a realistic one.. but hey.. you gotta have goals..
working against me is: an aluminum block (67S) motor, and a twin front oil cooler set up.
working for me is a whole lot of lightening tricks, hundreds of holes drilled into non structural areas, and 15 years of careful notes and fabrication tricks I've been compiling for this car...
I've already pulled the wiring loom, dash structure, headlight structure, cut out all welded in nuts, cut out hinge nuts, etc... etc...
we'll see, but I gotta have goals..
what weights have other people gotten with metal 6cylinder race cars?
brant
I said 2000 lbs was my GOAL. It may not be a realistic one.. but hey.. you gotta have goals..
working against me is: an aluminum block (67S) motor, and a twin front oil cooler set up.
working for me is a whole lot of lightening tricks, hundreds of holes drilled into non structural areas, and 15 years of careful notes and fabrication tricks I've been compiling for this car...
I've already pulled the wiring loom, dash structure, headlight structure, cut out all welded in nuts, cut out hinge nuts, etc... etc...
we'll see, but I gotta have goals..
what weights have other people gotten with metal 6cylinder race cars?
brant
I don't have many good pics of my car in computer format. I lost access to a scanner and a good digital camera when I lost my job in October. Here's a bigger version of the Avatar.
Mike T
Mike T
This picture is at the 2000 SCCA NeDivs with the old paint scheme. Tires are 23x9-15 Goodyear Eagle slicks in 210 compound. They work well and are cheap. I buy them used from a guy in Wisconsin. Front wheels are 15"x7" Centerline and rear are 15"x8" widened from the stock 1975 steel wheel. The car weighs 1775 lbs as it is now and except for the flares, cowl fairing and bumper is still all steel. I figure with fiberglass lids, doors, a bit more trimming and replacing those heavy rear wheels I can get down to 1680. 1775 may seem heavy but consider the Chevy V6 and cooling system adds weight over the -4 that I took out.
Mike T
Mike T
Hey Guys, I agree with Jeroen. You really do not need to do a full X for the door bars in this application. The structural stiffness compared to the weight gained is not worth it. Although we are talking about "only" 15lbs.
-Tony (anyone have that human cloning down yet, I need a twin for the next few weeks, waaaaay to much work!)
-Tony (anyone have that human cloning down yet, I need a twin for the next few weeks, waaaaay to much work!)
Tony,
If you figure out the cloning part, will you PLEASE lemme know
cheers,
Jeroen
If you figure out the cloning part, will you PLEASE lemme know
cheers,
Jeroen
All this work on 914's, maybe we should help out the Raleons with cloning ?? 
The tubing I'm using for the X bars in the doors is one piece of 1.5" by .095 wall DOM from the main hoop at about the top of the door to the bottom of the front hoop where it meets the longitunal. Then the second tube is a 1" by .095 from the top of the front hoop to the bottom of the main hoop. So this is probably less than 10 pounds total.
The main hoop and the tube from the top of the main to the middle of the front hoop is 1.75"x .125", the front hoop is 1.5" x .095", the tubes going from the top of the front to the shock towers is 1" x .095, the small diaginals from the middle of the front hoop to the shock towers is .75" x ?, and the bar from the middle of the front hoop across the passenger side to the main hoop is 1" x .095".
Paul
The main hoop and the tube from the top of the main to the middle of the front hoop is 1.75"x .125", the front hoop is 1.5" x .095", the tubes going from the top of the front to the shock towers is 1" x .095, the small diaginals from the middle of the front hoop to the shock towers is .75" x ?, and the bar from the middle of the front hoop across the passenger side to the main hoop is 1" x .095".
Paul
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.