I will be installing the programmable unit in my L-Jet 1.8 shortly.

Me thinks L-jet is more malleable and with a little fiddling you should be fine.

I"ve given some thought to the whole scenario about plugging in the wrong wires and a valve shearing off due to the backfire and is totally plausible if the valve has stretched enough and had been sitting for a while.

My engineer brain working to hard.

Ok, I got a chance to work on this thing yesterday and do some more road testing today. Yesterday I spent some time fighting with the timing and chasing "vacuum leaks" as I couldn't get a normal idle AND good performance on Curve 2. Finally concluded I don't have any significant vacuum leaks and that I should go back to Curve B using the vacuum line to bring down idle (plugging in the retard, not advance). Seems pretty obvious now that that's what I should have been doing all along.

I also installed new Blue Bosch coil, new plugs, Clewett wires and cleaned up the wiring to make it tidy. One thing that is annoying is that the location of #1 on the dizzy cap is about 180 degrees from stock. Because of the change in locations, some of the plug wires are a tough fit, and I couldn't get #2 to fit at all. So I had to use an older, longer wire I had. The Clewett ones don't give you any excess to play with. I know you can flip the drive gear on the dizzy, but...not sure I want to futz with that right now.

Anyway, I'm in good shape and happy now. Nice idle with good performance through the whole acceleration range. Hopefully our "lessons learned" (with assist from Mark) may help others make quicker work of this install (which really should be easy).

Raped ape from here on out

I'm running Clewett wires and this is disturbing news, why is the 123 distributor 180 degrees opposite of OEM?

My No 1 terminal was exactly in the same position as the stock dizzy. I had no such issue.

Oh that's good news. I haven't had time to get mine installed yet.

You can reclock the drive gear under the distributor. It's not hard, and you don't need to pull it out completely (so no washer worries). With a tappet-puller it'd take you about 30s to turn the drive 180, which would change your TDC#1 location, which would reorient all your spark plug wires.

This post will show you what you're dealing with to reclock.
(Ye gods! That post is from nearly 14 years ago! )

Cool, thanks Mark. Then that is what I think I will do. I'm not so OCD as to have to have the #1 in the right position, but I am sufficiently OCD to want all my plug wires to match and be good quality (after spending money on them)

From the factory tech spec booklet...

Mine is on the way. I have a 2.0 with Webcam and Webers, so got the one with 16 maps and no vacuum. Will have to figure out which map I like the best...

Just wanted to point out that these plots use the VW numbers and not the Bosch part numbers for which the 123 installation manual uses.

You need to figure out what the cross references plots are if you have a stock config.

Can someone tell me where the stock position of #1 is? Since I'll have the motor out might as well make sure the gear is oriented properly. Thanks!

My link above has the stock position when the engine is at TDC#1. It's ~12° off-center.
This post will show you what you're dealing with to reclock (and what stock looks like).

If Mark's picture doesn't make it 100% clear I made (or found online, can't remember which) the following for myself for reference a few years ago:

Click to view attachment

Thanks Mark and Rob.

Now I know my gear is already oriented correctly. The Mallory I did have in there was 180 off.

This reply is mostly irrelevant, but to be specific. The drive gear only has a 'correct' orientation in regards to the stock distributor, stock distributor orientation (where the vac can is), and having the rotor 'point at the line'.

When you change any of the stock components out, the idea of a 'correct' orientation breaks down. The following are all true -- as long as correct ignition timing can be physically achieved and the firing order is maintained.
-The drive gear can be installed in any orientation and work just fine.
-The rotor can point any direction and work just fine.
-The distributor body can be oriented in any way and work just fine.
-The spark plug wires can be oriented in any way and work just fine.

So you can't just put anything anywhere and have it work. BUT you are allowed a HUGE degree of freedom. So the Mallory is not '180 degrees off', which would imply that it's installed or manufactured improperly. The Mallory is just different. The 009 is different. The 123 is different. But orientation is just completely irrelevant, as long as correct ignition timing can be physically achieved and the firing order is maintained.

The bottom line is this:
If you're installing a 100% stock system, take the time to make sure all the components are aligned as per the manual. But if you've swapped out any components, don't get too focused on orientation vs. stock, and be willing to change the orientation.

This makes total sense. Thanks.

The 123 allows you to orient the wiring and curve plug access to a direction you prefer. Can't do that with a stock dizzy as the vacuum can takes up a lot of space.
As long as the rotor points to the #1 position, you can rotate the body of the 123 to position the cap spark plug connector to the #1 wire in the stock position.

This can make the wire installation a bit more tidy.

Hmmm... I agree you can position the body in 90 degree increments however you choose, but the rotor position to fire on a given cylinder doesn't change. The only way to move this is to index the drive gear in the case....

Or maybe I am thinking wrong??

No, you're right, within the bounds of the wire connections on the cap must line up with the rotor. But you're exactly right, in order to make small adjustments in orientation, you must move the drive gear.

So when the green led just lights up, which is four times in a revolution or turn of the distributor body, you actually have four positions where the firing of the number one cylinder will take place. When you attach the wires to the cap they will also need to move their location to correspond with the change of the distributor body. The reason is the cap has a locating tab on it so it goes onto the body only one way.

Now if you change the gear orientation thats ok but the above applies to that as well. Which should equate to (8) different locations for the distributor body to be adjusted too. However #1 cylinder and the rotor location does not change in each situation unless the drive dog is rotated 180 degrees.

Clear as mud?

I think by 'drive dog' you're talking about the toothed portion installed on the end of the distributor with a pin and spring. Nobody should be fiddling with that piece.

The drive gear (separate from the distributor) has 12 different positions. Any of those 12 positions will function the same. In any of those 12 positions there are four different orientations for the spark plug wires (assuming there are no physical limitations from clips of vac-cans). So there are a total of 48 different positions where your #1 spark plug wire could be. Which means that with some planning and/or math you can adjust your #1 position anywhere in the 360° rotation in increments/steps of 7.5 degrees.

how long before mine ships?

Got mine today! Will be a while before I can fiddle with it but this thread should be helpful when I do get around to it...

Just received mine today -- thanks for the group buy discount! One quick question: I've considered waiting until the car is put up for the winter before having my shop swap in this distributor. Does that eat into my warranty, or does it start when the dizzy is installed (with proof, of course)? I haven't opened the packaging yet, so I don't know if this is explained in any of the documentation that comes with the unit.

Haven't installed mine in the car yet, but playing with the Bluetooth programmable software, super easy to use. Infinitely adjustable !. This is going to be fun.

I wish I got in on the buy before I realized i need one of these...any chance for another group buy for black Friday special?

Hi Guys
Thanks for the purchases. I should be able to get the balance of the orders out this week of Nov 20th.
Someone asked about the warranty. These have a 1yr warranty from the date of purchase. As much as I would like to say from the date of installation there is just no way of monitoring that and the mfg only recognizes the date of sale proved by the invoice on record.
Thanks again Ed

For those who missed out use 914world5 for a 5% discount. If your group reaches 5 units then 10%. Offer expires Dec 3rd.
Hope this helpEd

AWesome!

Zach

Bought mine a few weeks before the group buy came out, oh well. This is how mine is oriented. To install I made sure cylinder #1 was at TDC and confirmed the dizzy drive was at 12 degrees and then slide it in. This is where #1 ended up. It's oriented 180 degrees opposite from the aftermarket Bosch unit that was in there. This is fine for my application. It's going in a 912 so the optical light faces the rear which works out for me. In a 914 you may want it to face a different location.
You can move the body of the dizzy in 90 degree increments so the rotor will line up with a spark plug hole.







Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

I just wanted to let everyone know that their orders will be shipped out on Monday.
The shipment got held in customs for a longer than usual time. (Murphy's Law) Then the holiday weekend became a factor. But the long and short is that Fedex will have them here by 10:30 on Monday. I will have them all shipped out by end of day.
Thanks for your patience
Ed

Thanks Ed. Looking forward.

I’ve got a carbureted big 4 with a 009 now. I’d like to make it more streetable and I love the idea of being able to fine tune everything over Bluetooth. I’m not sure the carbs are dialed in right but I’ve been told this won’t really be possible without decent ignition timing.

(More background on my situation here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=320218)

I’m something of a newbie but as I currently understand it, the Bosch 009 isn’t a good choice for street use and maybe not even that great for a track car. I love the idea of being able to configure the 123, and the 12V switch to choose between two modes. I can see using one mode for cold start, try to get out of the parking lot without backfiring on a cold morning, and another mode for break like the wind! Also I think I might have fun and learn a lot about ignition timing with this distributor.

Four questions I’m still confused about after reading the thread thus far:
1) Will I need to relocate my oil pressure sender to make room for this, as has sometimes been reported with the Mallory?
2) Will I need to bend any engine cooling tin to get this in?
3) As I understand it, the Bluetooth version arrives with an empty brain. Would anyone else with a similar engine as mine (2270, Dellorto 45s, Web hot street cam, cool Pacific NW climate a little above sea level) be willing to share your configuration tables with me?
4) Did trying to use this distributor cause nditz1’s engine damage? Would I damage expensive parts by misconfiguring the distributor?

—Michael in Seattle

Michael I can answer 1, 2, and 4.

1. You will not need to relocate your oil press sender as this is the same size as the stock at least it seemed way smaller than the mallory i took out. I didn't micro it though.

2. See above, actually the mallory I took out did not need any bent tin, but was a very tight fit, much more room with this dist.

4. This dist did not cause my problem. While it was coincidence I think it was the 914 gods letting me know i need to do a partial rebuild with out leaving me stranded. I get my engine yoke tomorrow and will pull the heads. The outside inspection shows the previous builder swapped left and right head. This means the valve dropped on cyl 2 which was actually cyl 3 on the opposite side. Must have had a rough life.

Fired up. Needed a full tune up so changed oil, plugs and wires then fired it up with the old ignition in place to make sure I was starting with a good base point. Then jacked up one wheel and rotated till rotor was pointed at #1 slot on old dizzy. Pulled old dizzy, put oil on new dizzy shaft to slide spacer over o ring. Made sure offset gear at bottom of new dizzy was in approximate right position and dropped it into place. Slipped right in. Gear clicked in place and dropped all the way down without issue. Rotor was pointed in about the same position (not 180 degrees off as some have experienced). Switched plug wires onto new cap. Plugged in red lead to the coil after adding correct fitting to the wire. Plugged the FI wires into the FI harness. These come preset with the correct ends. Mine fit snug. I do not foresee any loose connection issues there. Then turned on ignition and rotated till green light came on, backed it off a little till light went off. Then minute adjustment till light just comes on. Turned ignition off, plugged in black wire to coil. Put cap/wires in place and locked down cap. Tried to start. Close, but no cigar. Took a break. Went back out, popped the cap, unhooked black wire, redid the green light adjustment, hooked all back up. Started right up. Idled good. Shut it down as it is raining dogs so will wait till I can warm it up some before setting timing with timing light. Does not like to sit at 3500 RPM when cold... this is a 74 Djet 2.0. I set it to setting 2 and plugged the vacuum ports on the throttle body. Left the vacuum port open on the dizzy. Plan on running that way for awhile then see if I need to mess with the vacuum option. My understanding is it was for smog so thinking I can run without it. No adjustment to tins or anything else needed. Plug and play. Without the vacuum canister it is a smaller package overall. Dizzy body size is about the same size as stock. Hope this helps those with questions.

Hunh.

I would recommend plugging both ports with caps if you aren't going to use the advance or retard ports.

Why didn't you choose setting B? I have a 1.7 and I used setting 2 according to the Bosch part No. chart.

Just to confirm, you don't need to relocate oil line, you can see the clearance in one of my pics, However, I did have to file away a little of the fan shroud near the base of the dizzy. I couldn't get it to sit flush on the case. The washer/spacer on the 123 is a little bigger than a stock dizzy shaft.

Vacuum ports on a distributor should never be capped. On any car. Ever.

Either left open, or connected via a hose to the intake/plenum/wherever.

Never capped.

No really. Never. Spread the word....

To clarify in my case the ports on the throttle body are capped. The port on the dizzy is not.

In referencing https://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/djetparts.htm
It shows Porsche part # 039 905 205 A as the correct dizzy for my car (mine had been replaced by a different unit previously) and 0 231 174 011 as the Bosch part number

The 123 manual shows both switch 2 and switch B as being for the Bosch 0 231 174 011.
Both show the same advance start of 1000 and max advance of 2700/22,0.

I took that to mean the 2 setting use the same curve and the only difference is if the vacuum is positive or negative. Since I am not planning on using the vacuum port I assumed I could use either setting with the same results...

I am no expert by any means so if I am missing something I'd love to hear it.

Hey Good News
All orders but four hit the post today...Unfortunately Fedex lost 13 units out of the boxes coming with the Group Buy Order. I filled the purchases in the order in which they were placed. Unfortunately there are four who have been notified that they will experience a delay until I can get the lost units replaced. Unless you got an email your unit has been shipped. Thanks so much! I will try to expedite this debacle and keep those informed when I know more. Any questions feel free to call or text Ed 440-668-8164
Hope this helps
Ed

JMT
Do you have the OD of the stock dizzy where you had to file away?

Well I noticed that and I was wondering because this dizzy will eventually be going on a 2.0 with a 74 D-jet setup. Right now it is running flawlessly on setting 1 on a 1.7. I mistakenly posted it was on 2. It is set on 1. Too much holiday cheer I quess.

A little research has gleaned this, mostly from this site. Which port to use off the TB, advance or retard. On the 1.7 I used only the advance port off the TB as that is how I interpreted the table even though the distributor it replaced had a combination vacuum can. I just plugged the hose on the PLENUM side, NOT the dizzy side. Oh...BTW...NEVER plug the nipple on the dizzy side......spreading the word, although it would be nice to lnow why

So with that being said, I have a TB with two ports one for advance and one for retard. I would assume for the 2.0 build I would also use the advance port for the dizzy vac port.

I can only assume that you would use the letter setting when you had only the retard port on the TB? Maybe someone can confirm.

I can confirm this with the advent of our Thanksgiving heat wave here in So Cal. In 96 deg heat uphill on part load and at cruise there were no issues with pinging or other issues.

On the stock distributors, you don't plug the ports on the distributor dashpot (vacuum thingie) because that keeps the diaphragm inside the dashpot from moving as freely as it is supposed to.

When the factory discontinued the vacuum advance on the 914, they ran a hose from that fitting down under the plenum, and left it disconnected. The hose seems to have been used mostly to keep people from freaking out about a bare fitting...

--DD

Thanks Dave. Of course. It would freeze or limit the advance plate so it wouldn't move as much from the centrifugal advance.

This could be troublesome. Holiday cheer IS wearing off.

...you mean a bare nipple.

Soooo close. Still hoping some kind soul would be willing to help me with this:


or at least tables that would work the same as my 009 until I can optimize them?

This thread has some good info.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=319841