just wondering. around the time i finish my phd, i'd like to get my race liscence and run a form-v car. competitive cars look to be in the $8-12k range, and it would seem that running costs are relatively low. in other words, a logical place to spend a couple years honing skills before moving onto bigger and badder things.

just looking for any experience, running costs, anecdotes, advice, etc.



n

One of the highest injuries per 1000 entries.

No thanks,

Erik

do you weigh 100lbs and used to be a jockey?

you wont be competitive if your a big guy

The Vintage Fromula Vee's I see at events like HSR-West and VARA seem to be driven pretty safe and as for cost it appears to be about the cheapest way to go. I have seen vintage Vees with spares, wheels, trailer and log books and history for 5500 or so. There are a couple of Vee sites and they usually have some for sale. Good luck

From quite dim recollection...

The classic Vees, with ancient 1200cc engines, are fairly high-dollar cars to run competitively, as it takes a super wizard to get top horsepower out of those engines. There's a class for cars with newer 1600cc engines, which are either restricted in other mods, or limited only to AX. I can't remember which. I'd get a copy of the current GCR and read carefully.

If I were going to get involved in four-wheeled road racing right now, and didn't have a significant budget, I'd go karting. Karts are cheap to buy, cheap to run, and there is a world-class facility for them in the Sears Pt. complex. With a full sized car, you need a trailer and a tow vehicle and someplace to park both. A kart can be kept in a pretty small space (even stored on end), and simply rolled into the back of a pickup.

If I were to road-race a full sized car, I'd start by simply not worrying about competitiveness, and I'd probably run a Formula Ford, as they're really properly engineered racing cars, and there are enough in a typical field that you can usually find someone about at your level (the car's and yours) to run with. The cost to run an uncompetitive but not embarassing Ford is, I'd venture, about the same or less than running a competitive Vee.

Been forever since I was at an SCCA event, but aren't the spec racers still around? They used to have renault engines, but I thought they switched them to escort engines??? I thought those were fairly inexspensive to run once you got past the initial cost of the car. Not nearly the R&D you would have for a Vee engine.

The most powerful legal F Vee engines built make no more than 63hp peak.

Like Erik said, the highest injury rate of any SCCA class.

Beam front axle, swing axle rear, narrow tires, the slightest mistake takes at least a full lap to recover from.

Spec Racer Ford or Formula Ford would be a much better place to start IMO, but racing a 914 is really the only way to go.

Don't waste your time. Talk about stepping backwards. If you want to run a formula car get a Formula Mazda or Formula Ford. Run some modern tech instead of the worst of the worst.

The only one of those engines I ever built was 4 years ago... it cost about 8500 bucks to make 59 HP.

It's not uncommon for these engines to run head temps over 550 degrees!!!! And their rules are the dumbest on the planet.

QUOTE (Brett W @ May 23 2005, 09:05 PM)

Don't waste your time. Talk about stepping backwards. If you want to run a formula car get a Formula Mazda or Formula Ford. Run some modern tech instead of the worst of the worst.

I was thinking the same thing. Formula Mazda seems to be a fairly affordable way to go, but not nearly as cheap as Formula V. I'm assuming drivers are a little better on the average. I still cant get that rotory engine noise out of my head from when I drove one around Infineon for 15 laps or so! Those cars are wicked! I was chasing a couple of professional drivers and hanging with them for the entire session. For a moment I thought "hey this would be fun", but then reality of the $$$ and commitment hit me.

But why not do Spec Miata racing? Very popular, relatively cheap to get into one, they're relatively bullet proof mechanically. A little slower speeds and decent safety factor

At Infineon, just over the crest of a long uphill, my buddy was hit broadside and killed racing formula V. The same year his son got rookie of the year.

I'd want more protection surrounding me... Ya' just never know.

thanks so much for the input guys.

yeah, spec miata or spec rx7 is always an option -- although their running costs would seem a bit higher. still, the main issue for me is learning, and it seems like FV or FF is a good place to learn strategy, drafting, etc.

racing a 914 would be great fun, and might be where i end up (hell, if i stick a cage in it i'd be ready). but i'm not convinced there aren't other (much) more reliable options out there.

My friend that used to race Vee's told me a story.
He said a lost tire came flying at him and near missed him.
Still in the race, he was thinking, " something's not right ".

That tire sheared the driver side rearview mirror right off his car.

Inches from disaster.

He'll have it back home before too long and I'll slap my FOUR in it and a/x it.

KT

I raced Vees back in the early 70s and it is one of the toughest classes to run. at riverside you only shifted twice to third, the rest of the time you were wfo. if you lifted for any reason the rest of the field was long gone. try turn nine at 110 mph with no throttle left. it made me pucker. you will learn more car control in a good Kart or a spec class.

Bernie

QUOTE (nebreitling @ May 23 2005, 10:04 PM)

yeah, spec miata or spec rx7 is always an option -- although their running costs would seem a bit higher. still, the main issue for me is learning, and it seems like FV or FF is a good place to learn strategy, drafting, etc.

If it's racecraft you want to learn, then you DEFINITELY want to go karting.

Ayrton Senna: Everything I know about racing, I learned in karts. EVERYTHING.

A clutch kart (no shifter) means it's just you, the gas pedal, the brake pedal (rears only!), and the steering wheel. Very little mucking about with tuning the thing or shifting. You just concentrate on driving, and beating the other guy with a nearly identical kart (with weight rules that include the driver, so everyone weighs the same).

Hum.. why does the new SD shop have two carts sitting around:

"The Pro racers use them on off weekends"

I'll be driving this one very soon... The silver 993 wide body car is the shop TT/AutoX car.



B

This is how we store them: roll around carts. Two of them will sit on a angle in a 6 foot pickup truck bed.


B

I started racing in a Spec RX7 10 years ago. My strong recommendation for anyone without a big budget who wants the most fun / dollar in racing is to get into a Spec class. The RX7 and Miata are both relatively affordable. Another option would be a Spec 944.

QUOTE (nebreitling @ May 24 2005, 02:04 AM)

spec miata

Why not start off with DE and TT? You can do that now with the current car and start learning big track skills.

n,

I'd suggest a lot of research to determine what's out there that interests you. If it's V's, then so be it. I raced roadrace shifter karts competitively for 20+ years, and they too can be expensive, especially if you have to farm out things like motor work (I built my own stuff, so I saved a lot). The magic word here is *competitive.* Doesn't matter what you run, you're going to spend $$$ to be *competitive.* If running for the win is not your wholey single focus, and you want to have fun, then costs can be quite reasonable.

Frankly, the most fun I had with racing various things throught the years, was a roadracing stock car. Restricted motor (well, kind of........465HP two barrel SBC), spec tires, and Sportsman specs. Ran a very competitive series that paid real money! A similar series run today I believe is NASA Pro, that are basically ARCA chassis' with spec ZZ4 crate motors. Parts are cheap, and available everywhere. There's nothing that quite compares to the sound of an angry SBC. When you compare that with say a new $40,000 D Sports Racer, I would do the roadrace stock car in a heartbeat; oh, they're built like a tank, so they're fairly safe in one.

Andy

I don't think FF is a cheap as others do. Sure it's much cheaper that FC or FM, but that's not saying much. In my mind FV probably costs approximately the same as an ITB car, if you're okay with being a mid-pack runner.

It has always seemed to me that there are open wheel racers and closed wheel racers and not very much cross-over. So, I would decide which appeals more to you. Then let your budget and desires guide you to picking a car. But, be realistic. I started out thinking, "I'm just happy to be here" but that didn't last long. I'm now on my 3rd different race car in 6 years. That gets expensive.

Karts, then FM.
When considering racecars, consider not only the initial cost ( most of which you get back anyway ) but also the maintenance cost ... like what does it cost to replace the entire right front assembly.
FM will win this battle almost every time ... and they are faster than almost anything else.
Ran an FM for 4 years all the way up to win the Pro Star Mazda National series and I can tell you that I wouldn't consider anything else - yes, I have a Porsche racecar but a serious racecar is much faster and yes, much cheaper !!!