OK, OK, I know they are all fun but where is the tipping point where they can dig out of a corner as opposed to being more momentum cars?

1.8 vs 2.0 vs 3.2 (6 swap)?

Going to duck and cover now but it is a sincere question...

Thanks for all of the education.

I'll bet if you'd do a quick search here you'd find that subject has been discussed. A million times.

And the answer is: "It depends."

Style of driving.
Class rules.
cruiser? Racer?
Personal Preference...

There is no one right answer.

Zach

Fair answer

How about reliable street use, fast road with spirited driving with frequent 75+ trips on flowing roads. Will not be tracked so no worries on running afoul of Class rules. Not looking for crazy power, lucky/dumb enough to have a S4 ($3,400 Oregon hanger find) for that.

To be more specific while I am looking should otherwise stock 1.7 be in the mix?

Oh, you don’t already own a 914? Go drive a few and report back. They are all fun, in different ways. More HP does not = More fun. I own a 928 also. Different experience than a 914.

Your in So Cal. come out to one of our get together and go for a ride in our cars.

I agree with the above, its all personal tastes. Check out other peoples cars and then go from there. I know of Mazda powered, V8 powered, Subaru powered, big 4's and plenty of sixes in so cal. Lots of options....

Hi Jeff, good to know there are other Shark owners here!

I do not own a 914 yet, had some near misses but nothing has come together yet.

....I'm going to express my thoughts on the viability of a 914 for your requirements...with this huge caveat : This is so subjective that it approaches meaningless....A 914 is not the car for fast roads...it's forte is going fast on slow roads..with marginal insulation , poor weather seals and the mechanical noise , it makes a poor choice for ( frequent ) 75 mile + trips . Its design premise of moderate power and good handling , dictate that it will always be a momentum car , that particular ability is some of its charm......Pick a car that is the most solid you can find ....some of the top builder prefer the 1.7 as a base to build on , and if you want to improve its punch in a reliable way , go that way to about 2250 cc ITB 's and stand a lone ECU's would be the heat !

Hi Steve, that would be great. Is there an event schedule?

We typically hang out every Saturday at a south orange county Cars & Coffee. The next major event that a bunch of us might go to is out in Palm Springs.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=321936

My 3.2 with 240hp is getting close. I think a strong 993 engine, built to 3.8, might be perfect.

Horsepower equals Money. The more you spend the more HP you will have. But you will learn that there’s more then HP that makes these cars fun to drive.
So your first question to yourself is, How much money am I willing to spend !!

Just my opinion, buy the best 914 that you can afford, learn everything 914, drive it for a year then start your plans.

Thanks for the responses.

Fast like this :-)

Anyone recognize it?

Just need to get there first...

Sage advice, will do that but want to make sure I'm as close as possible up front.

To be clear I am not looking to replicate the urge of some of the other cars, I am interested in a 914 because it is different.

Topanga Canyon looking at the Valley?

What do we win?

Bob B

The mid engine car forgives you in the turns if you let up on the gas. This is in my humble opinion. Not track racing but tight turns like you have shown. I have been in areas just like that for the last 35 years and never had a problem in a 914. Now in a 911 that is a different story. It will kick your ass as far as letting you know that you are a dick. But not as bad as my dads Volvo P1800 on Mulholland when I was 22. No crash. Now I have been jamming on these mountains Rd from 16 on. My friends have spun out, put a VW up on 2 wheels. All types of foolishness. Been 130 MPH on the 5 Fwy in a 78 Turbo 930 Porsche. Just stupid.

Bob B

A cookie? Beer? Both, maybe just not at the same time.

(Not Topanga btw)

Sounds like you had fun on those roads.

A friend who restores Porsche cars, races and also instructs says it's best to learn how to drive the car you have until there is no more speed to be found (on the track) and then start modifying it.

I have 325hp from 1.8L and it's a shit load of fun. But... my chassis is built to handle power...

Good points, thanks for the thoughts.

Mike, I bet she really goes.

Just right (below) for me...7-liters.

Seriously, as someone has been already suggested...get a car and drive it. I also agree with the idea of purchasing the best car you can afford.

Tony

Click to view attachment

Short answer to the last question is yes, why wouldn't it?

A stock 914 1.7 with a properly set up suspension and chassis in the twisties is very fun. I have driven my car 75+ plus hundreds of miles to many events. Very reliable and fun.

My 02.

Tony doesn't count! That car is amazing.

You can have fun in any 914.

It really gets fun over $30k

Palms to pines hwy 74

We'll probably all be at the San Clemente Cars and Coffee this Saturday @ 8:30....

Look for the 914 row...?

Click to view attachment

Thanks all.

Coaching youth soccer on Saturday but will try to make it. Thank you very much for the invite.

3.2L is the perfect engine for a stock(ish) 914.

They all should have come with one from the factory.

Ortega Hwy?

Fun in a 914? I 'd say about 1hp per 10 pounds of car and driver weight, with a steep torque curve and 6000 rpm minimum redline

Think about it

You said reliable street use

So if you want to stay reliable, you dont want to use anything
But stock motor , weather that be 2.0 ,2.0/6 ,3.0 ,3.2 etc

But if you really want reliability and good power
You may want to start pumping water ala 1999 porsche 911

That will improve alot of issues when it comes to probeing performance and reliability. Ims not with standing .

I have a v6 3.5 liter Honda oddessy engine vetch dual over head cams all aluminum engine for 500 bucks. 250hp 240 torque. I use to have a 914 with a small block427 fast as sh.. but not as fun as this car.

Stock 73 2.0L properly tuned, with autocross suspension will impress a lot if not all non914 drivers.

It just bolts right in with six tin, heat exchangers and 916 trans.
Like it’s made for the car.

I wanted a 300hp mid engined Porsche when I first bought my 914.

I still have the 914 and bought the other.

My 914 will be stock with a 2056 I think.

HP does not necessarily mean fun.

Plus having two mid engined cars is cool, I think...

The better you get at driving it, the more fun you'll have. As it goes with any sport. A million horsepower isn't fun if you can't squirt it through the corners. G forces=fun. Goes with cars, skis, bikes, everything. Seek the fun. (Don't get me wrong, I want 500hp in mine, but don't put the cart ahead of the horsepower).

Part of the fun of these cars is working on them along the way. Drive it to the edge at every stage. To it's fullest, before adding more power. That will maximize your fun factor at every stage. Know the girl intimately with respect and she'll give you the most pleasure. Works with cars too... Oh wait.

When I bought my first 914, my oldest son then 17 hated it - too slow. For him fun was the acceleration. A few years later he bought a first gen Miata as a DD and to track, goes out of his way to get an opportunity to drive either 914, and recently purchased an '82 911 SC, though as he admits, for the same money he could have bought a contemporary car with much more power.

I'm running a 2056, dual webers, aggressive cam in my silver car. For me it was worth the upgrade over the tired stock 2.0 liter. Love the Weber symphony behind my head, but others dislike it, for each their own.

The Ravenna green car, still a project car with limited miles has a fresh 2258 in it. Certainly a step up from stock and up from the 2056, but was it worth $12k for the engine? Fortunately for me I paid pennies on the dollar.

If you want fun, affordable, reliable canyon carving, consider a Lotus Elise. Also a mid-engine targa, an absolute ball to drive, sticks like glue even when not set up well, inexpensive to maintain, and gets 30 MPG. You'll spend less on one than a sorted six conversion, but then again, a well sorted six conversion pushes you into a respectable 911 SC or Carrera price range.

Click to view attachment

Perry beat me to it. Just insert $$$$.

This was built by Rothsport many years ago. Just shy of 400 hp. Owner didn't like it. Too fast, too light. Maybe it was the bugs in the teeth. He has a GT RS coming.
https://bringatrailer.com/2010/02/16/purge-...73-porsche-914/

If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the breaking zone of the next, you have enough power.
MD

Ha! Not quite spin the tires at 150 but same general idea.

This has been a great discussion, hopefully fun even for those with lots of existing 914 seat time.

We haven't talked about weight as a function here, which is pretty relevant. It seems the earlier 914 were a couple hundred pounds lighter?

You are correct...weight is a non-issue. My car for instance is a pig on the 914 scale - doesn't matter. In any other terms...it would be considered an unobtainable feather light. Get the best car you can afford; get some seat time and then make changes based upon that real-world experience. Nothing we can type here will be a solid substitute for that formula.

BTW: I do have a car that DID spin the tires on-throttle at 166 - but its not a teener! You do not want that kind of power...

Tony

I started my 914 adventure with an incomplete, but well-built and running, 2.7L conversion... you know. "Someone-else's dream". Rich Bontempi and his outstanding mechanic Larry set the car up for me the first time for a DE at Sears Point. After that it was up mostly to me.

Loads of fun it is and taught me how to constantly jet the 40 IDA carbs on different tracks not so weather-constant as California. After 4 years converted it to a 3.6L 993 with appropriate suspension and brake mods. Even more fun but miss the scream of an under-3L engine.

I've had the car since 1995 and still have a blast with it. For the street and set up like a road course car with an LSD or TB diff, it's hard to beat and useless for autocross events. I' have another 993 engine sitting in a crate next to it right now and as soon as I get some time I'll replace the old one and take my time building a much more "torqy" version with that core. The point for me is that it's a fun never-ending project that gives me something to talk about endlessly with other 914 owners/builders! The cost?

I've done most work myself and I'm north of $50K in the car (not including tires) with ~$23K in two 993 engines and that doesn't include the excellent 2.7L I traded for the first one. If I'd paid someone else to do the mods it would be double that. I bought a "mostly" finished street/autocross car and spread out over the 22 years I've had it, that's not so bad!

Lots of adventures and I've had the pleasure of meeting a some of the folks on this forum, some of which have their ideas implemented in that car. As another note, an hour after driving the 3.6, I thought another 100 hp would be good!

Good Luck!

In the 80s I had a 73 2.0 with the (not recommended) single progressive carb. I remember driving from Phoenix to LA County in about four hours* on one tank of gas, with everything we needed in the front and back trunks. I had more fun in that car than anything else I've had. But I was never satisfied with the acceleration and lack of air conditioning (in Phoenix), and girlfriends complained about being cold and their hair getting messed up. After driving a 5 liter Mustang at Bondurant it felt like my 914 accelerator wasn't working. Also there was no 914World back then, just clueless mechanics and the blurry Haynes book.

Since then I've tried to recapture the experience in an MR2 and a Miata. I tried renting a guy's Boxster-S on a recent trip back to Phoenix. None of them really scratched the itch so I'm back to a 914/4 again. This one has lots of problems but more than adequate power from the previous owner's 2366 build. Unlike the Miata, it sounds and drives like a man's car. Since then I've read that 2366 isn't a very smart build for longevity. So I guess we'll see.


* That's how I recall it, though it seems implausible in retrospect.

I think it's not just the horsepower, but the motor itself. When I went from a 2.7L CIS to a weber 3.0 things got VERY fun. The sound and instant throttle response made it a blast. It was quick on the track too.

I've rebuilt it to a higher hp 3.2L (~280hp, was ~220hp). Now I feel like it's too much power for the street, but at the track it could even use a little more. On the street you feel like you can easily push the car past its grip limits and easily break speed limits. I am happy with the build overall, now with actual carb cams the engine comes on even more instantaneously.

I think I could be happy with just a 2.0L weber canyon carver too, its fun to try and drive a slow(ish) car quick...

I'd say at minimum a bought or built 2.0L -- feels like a Miata. The 1.7 is like a Prius.
A 165hp Subaru swap is a nice bang for the buck.
It gets 'fun' at 200hp -- 0-60 under 6 seconds. But then I've gotten bored with 200hp so working on 300hp now
I've driven quite a few Renegade SBC swaps -- torquey V8s spin the tires too easily.

10/1 power to weight ratio is a good rule and turns into quite a fun car. I have always felt 200HP + in a 914 makes it quite a fast and fun car.


Too much torque and the tires spin way to easily in this car. A nice flat torque curve and snappy throttle response makes a very fun car.


Or you can just go over the top like many of us do and go 4-500+hp. At that point a solidly reinforced chassis with a full track setup suspension and brakes are pretty much necessary.


But there is something to be said about taking an underpowered car through tight corners and being at 100% throttle most of the time.

I recently purchased the 2270 Jake Raby engined 914 from the classifieds after having owned a stockish 2.0. This 2270 with the light flywheel feels absolutely perfect for the 914. The 2.0 I had always felt over chassis-ed, and underpowered when driving up the mountain road I live on, and my new car flies up the mountain in a very sneaky-speed sort of way. I'm always going a little faster than I think, it just spools up so quickly, and revs with an urgency the 2.0 didn't. It's just a totally different kind of car. I have a 3.2 911 also, and it might still be faster, but it also feels a lot more "serious" and grippy. (It's hotrodded and has 255's on the rear) The 914 is so friendly and delicate in comparison. Doesn't feel like it wants to bite when it gets loose. For the street on technical roads, the 150-ish hp this car makes seems ideal. On track, more is always better.

I've had 914s with at least 5 different powertrain combinations so far and agree that they are ALL a blast in their own way when decently sorted, but the stock 2.0 D-Jet just didn't do anything for me in the driving excitement or sound departments.

It's touched-on somewhat above, but just to emphasize further for the OP, there is an often-discussed "slippery slope" wherein at some level of power you will "need" to address tires, suspension and brakes. That often leads to fender flares and chassis reinforcements. Then you're repainting panels if not the whole car.

Accordingly, many guys recommend trying to find someone else's project that is already in the ballpark of what you want to end up with, unless the custom-build journey is part of what you're after and the cost/time element is not a huge factor for you.

There all fun to drive but 400 hp is exhilarating..

My guess is route 74 south of Palm Desert. I drove that stretch on way to Temecula and thought how much fun it would be in my 914.

When I was growing up 10# per 1hp was part of the definition of a supercar.

Nailed it!

Great discussion gentlemen, thank you.