I bought this car a couple months ago, and wrestling with problems that I expected, and some I didn't expect.

Dyno shop got a noticeable performance improvement by reaming out the main jets. We played with the timing curve a little bit also. Unfortunately the clutch is contaminated or something and sometimes interfered with torque readings.

Now that I've read more about 2366 longevity, I'm not sure I'd opt for it. It sounds great and pulls harder than I'm used to in a 914 though.

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This is from the Carb Connection in Totem Lake?
120hp /140tq seems low for 2.4L motor, what kind of exhaust is on it?

He’d be in the 180 +- Range at the crank. My 2432 was in the 220 Range...

Yes. I worked with Alex there. Seems like a good place. The reason I went in is kind of a long story.

The car came with big headers, I thought. So I'm living without a heater or defogger for nothing? I can find the actual dimensions when I get back home.

Once you get the clutch slip fixed I bet the #'s go way up.

Hmmm, I only ask as the only exp. Ive had with them was rebuilding my the carb on my daughters Festy ... HUGE BILL $$$. I almost walked but they worked with me discounting it.

So what are you concerns about Longevity?
Are you referring to Iron cyl's?

Yes, it wasn't a cheap visit for me either: $400 for several runs and some tuning. They didn't charge me for noticing the VW shop had forgotten to screw down the main jet stack on one of my new DRLA 45s.

For what it's worth, here's what the previous owner used:
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Gottal Love the 123 programmable distributor !

I believe this is the exhaust Tim used from "Paragon Products":
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I agree. My 2.2 did 147 hp @ 5300 rpm. with 44idf's.

In the previous owner's records I found a receipt for a clutch disk in February 2017. It seems to be adjusted properly. I don't think he drove it that much, so my theory is that the clutch is contaminated rather than worn out.

If the streets in Seattle ever dry out I guess I'll notice the slipping clutch more often.

Your clutch is slipping probably any time you are putting your foot down.
As a reference point, my 2056 dynoed at numbers greater then your 2366. You are WAY under potential power.

I agree with the others that your clutch is limiting you. Anyway you do it, you need to pull the transmission and clean or replace the clutch.

The longevity issue with the 2366 is heat. The head temps are pretty high and they don't last as long as other builds. You can mitigate it with $$$ pistons and cylinders and head work. But I'd not worry about it. Get it running properly and enjoy the power. You are going to have a very fast 914.

Zach

Concur with the others, take a look at the clutch, fortunately that's a relatively easy job with a helper.

For further reference, my 2258 running 44 IDFs dyno'ed at 155 HP at 5000 RPM, max torque 175 lb-ft at 3000 RPM, measured at the crank.

Get that clutch fixed.

I wonder if the Cosmoline was ever cleaned off of the flywheel?

Tomorrow I'll be visiting a mechanic mentor who has a full shop (including a lift) but no 914 experience (though he had a Boxster in his shop last time I visited with my Miata). I first wanted to find out why it's leaking oil and transmission fluid but now I'm guessing we should inspect the clutch and flywheel as well.

I'm excited to hear that! I hope you're right. It already feels faster (and sounds better) than the single carb 2.0 I had in the 1980s.

Synchromesh is shot in every gear except 3rd. I'm hoping Dr. Evil makes a stop here sometime.

Regarding the head temps, the car does have a front oil cooler, CHT gauge, and oil temperature gauge. And it doesn't get as hot here as where the PO built it. And I'm more likely to track my cheap 91 Miata than this car. Maybe I'll be OK?

The curve underneath the dyno looks right on the money.

Looks to be the least of the problem(s) with the car.

Send the tranny to Dr Evil. Use a Rubbermaid trash container and wrap the tranny in carpet. Send by truck. Don't forget to drain it beforehand. About $300 I'm told.

Always nice to be called out for good things

Feel free to ship to me, shipping is about $100 each way. I can fill you or anyone in on the details if ya PM me. As for PNW clinic, no set date, but later next year at earliest. I have to move houses, accrue time off, build garage, spruce up and sell other house, take over world, the usual. I plan to suspend building after I finish the ones I have on the bench (now that I have parts), so I may be a minute until I can get to yours if you wait. Always happy to answer questions.

Fix clutch. We want to see what that beast can do. While trans is out for clutch work, get it to Dr. Evil. He did my trans and the 914 has never shifted better. Be patient. He's worth the wait. I found a super heavy duty camo box at menards that was perfect for shipping. With that motor heat can be a thing. Watch the temps, change oil often, be sure the thermostat and flaps are working correctly, and that ALL engine tin is in place.

Then turn it loose!

The doctor is in the House. Dr Evil is the best !

I appreciate all the support here!

Mechanic road tested my car and didn't get the clutch to slip. The clutch slipping problem seems to happen less often than a couple months ago when the car first came here. What could cause that?

The engine seems to run nicely with the new Dellortos ... no idea why it's underperforming on the dyno. Here's the exhaust system. We're having a hard time figuring out exactly where the leaks are coming from. Someone else said he also smells transmission oil burning on the exhaust (it smells different?). The transmission fluid level was slightly lower than the opening when we checked it today.

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If it is tranny fluid It looks like it coming from the front seal in the bell housing or the clutch pivot point. Either way you need to pull the transmission to fix.

First thing to do is figure out the leaks.

Looks wet.... gear oil has a distinct smell kind of like sulfur. Looks to me like either the
input seal on the transmission is leaking or the rear main seal on the engine.

Stick your finger in one of those drips hanging off the transmission and smell it...yuck. Easy to tell if its gear oil.

OK, will try that next time.

Could a transmission or engine oil leak cause the clutch to be contaminated?

The weird thing with the clutch is that the slipping was noticeable when I first got the car a couple months ago, and now it's not noticeable except for one slip on the dyno stand. What ever was on the clutch got burned off? It fixed itself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B61_5sRoBI


Gear oil level in the transmission was slightly low, not a lot.

At least most of the stuff is engine oil. I'm wondering how to track it down. Since the tranny needs rebuilding anyway, I guess we'd find out more then.

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What cam and compression are you running?

Rear main, trans out put, or ball pivot could all provide lube that could contaminate the clutch. Drop trans and check them all. Self healing clutch? I guess anything is possible. My experience has been once they start slipping they are done, but that has been on well used parts. You'll learn more about the condition of the clutch and flywheel once the trans is out.

Trans out.
Flywheel off.
Show us your rear main seal. I bet its oily.

And this will contaminate your clutch and allow slippage.

Also looks like your pushrod tubes may be leaking.

Zach

You guys are probably right that the rear main seal is leaking. I'm just wondering why it would develop a leak so quickly, since the PO built the engine a year ago.

But not the tranz. The tranz seal may be rael old and sat for how long? Still need to verify source, and trans has to come off anyway for that. Trans oil smells much worse than engine oil. You can compare stink to what you find on the dip stick

Isn't there a known problem with Erling rear main seals that always leak?

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...12374&st=20

I've used the UV leak detector kits with success before.

Not sure if I'd do engine or transmission 1st...just don't do them at the same time!

https://www.amazon.com/Mastercool-53351-B-P...ords=uv+dye+kit

Dyno pulls can put some serious stress's on a motor.
If there are weak points in the build it can expose them.
CAM walk, Weak seals, cooling issues, ect.

I tried to smell the stuff today and it just smelled like oil. But it's possible I don't have a discerning pallet since I'm the guy who thought Coke and Pepsi were the same drink until there was a big fuss about New Coke.

Since the transaxle needs rebuilding anyway, I guess we'll learn more about the leaks and clutch then.

Could not induce any noticeable clutch slip today. Engine idles great, and drivability problems vanished when I replaced the DRLA 45s (which still have 35 or 36 venturis I think). Air fuel mixture was correct on the dyno.

If it's not a clutch problem, what's the next most likely cause of the power less than other big fours?

Also curious about the venturi sizes of engines that do this. Oh, and what RPM was peak horsepower?

Camshaft and exhaust.
FC442 is a conservative camshaft for a 2366.
A 1 5/8" header is too small for a 2366.
European Racing Headers have long primaries, better for low end torque instead of top end.

BTW, 37 degree full advance is probably way too aggressive and may result in pre-ignition/high head temps.

I noticed you have an additional oil cooler, if you remove these copper pieces that are blocking the air from exiting the fan shroud, your stock oil cooler will work properly. Trust me I've made this mistake before. That air has to escape out the bottom of the shroud (heater ports) for the cooling system to work properly.

OK. That makes sense. Is there any point in changing one and not the other? I'm thinking of living with the current performance until the next engine build.



I will back it off. I've always seen cylinder head temperature readings well below 350ºF, but it's winter here and I haven't pushed it very hard for very long.

Thank you for the expert help.

Yes, the car came from the San Jose CA area with a front oil cooler and those sealed shroud ducts. Maybe PO wouldn't have needed to add the oil cooler if he'd left those ducts open?

For two months here in Seattle the problem has been getting oil temperature up though. I've got that white milky condensation under the oil filler cap.

The air thermostat appears to reflect the correct cold position. I haven't found a way to test that the air flaps are actually closed with the tin on.
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You absolutely need the external cooler with that displacement.
In fact, the stock cooler is almost no help compared to a front mounted cooler.

Another thing to consider - sandwich plates for external cooler take-off may create a separate issue related to cooling: Backpressure from the external cooler may cause all the oil to bypass the filter and the cooler. That's because of the bypass valve in the filter bracket which opens at a fairly low pressure differential.

Uh oh — would this also keep the filter from working?

What’s a better way to set it up?

In two months of ownership in the winter here, oil temperature slowly creeps up to 80ºC, then doesn’t budge above that. I have assumed there is an oil thermostat at work, as one was supposed to come with the Patrick Motorsports kit a previous owner bought.

I am running your Tangerine Racing Oil Pressure Relief Valve does that help?

Have to disagree. That is where fan outputs to the heat exchangers. It splits output between the HEs and the larger job of engine cooling. If you pull those caps the pressure will fall in the plenum feeding heads and cylinders. The heads will
be the biggest cooling concern at this point.

Odd that it says it's a standard base circle cam, shouldn't clear one lobe with an 80mm crank.

Chris is right that's a conservative grind for the engine size.

with worn

looks like a web cam 494 here:
http://www.webcamshafts.com/mobile/automob..._type_4_8v.html
Web 494:
.465/.465 IN/EX lift in inches
.280°/280° IN/EX duration in °



what size valves are in the heads?

Previous owner says stock valves.

(This is an old thread, but I guess it came back to life because I referenced it while asking about the downsides of ss heat exchangers for this engine.)

Thank you for the note. Stock 2.0 valves are a tad small IMO. Even for a 2056. Good to know the configuration

No idea why PO went to all that trouble just to use that cam. FWIW, he wasn’t very active on this forum.

I’m not feeling ready to split the case on a motor that was just built last year. Is there any point in bigger exhaust (background: currently has 1 5/8” European Racing Headers)?

Secondary consideration: Tangerine’s exhaust appeals to me because I’ve realized I’m old enough to appreciate a working heater and defogger.