I've been tasked to find a correct radio for a friends 95% original 1973 914 2.0.
Right now the car has an Alpine installed. Certainly not correct.
I just want to be certain before we make the purchase.
All relevant opinions welcome.
Thanks

Really! Another thread?

I respect your opinion Mike, but I didn't want to get in a long discussion on a tread in the classifieds. I figured it was just a matter of time before someone would make the tyoical criticizing comment. I've been around 914's for 45 years and I'm still not convinced that this is a correct Sapphire radio for a 73 914.

I'm not positive about this but....
A '73 would have basket weave vinyl glued to a metal dash fascia panel.
Is that a rigid molded plastic panel ?
The mounting panels are not interchangeable on that radio.

Actually Ror, they did have molded basketweave plastic face panels for the 914 back in the day, & my OO dealer purchased Motorola AM/FM/8-Track has one!

Click to view attachment

The plastic ones were more durable for cleaning off finger-crud that builds up around controls you use a lot, plus the small glued on material piece on the metal face tended to curl at the corners. So most of us preferred the formed plastic faceplates.


Tom
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Go to Jeff Bowlsby site and look at accesories. All the Motorola/Sapphire radios have plastic face.

Hey Steve -

It depends upon whether your buddy wants one "in the range" or period correct, or an exact match to build date/sale date.

For the latter - if it has a factory installed radio option on his COA or window sticker, bill of sale - then he needs to find that exact radio with a mfgr. date at least a couple of months before sold, before the Chassis number build date & probably not more than a 12-18 months before that it would've sat in stock. The factory radio option was the least common, but you can find a list of them at Jeff Bowlsby's website (not all inclusive listing) linked below:

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm

Otherwise for the exact match - for dealer installed radios or aftermarket shop or owner installed radios - collectively the the most common - you can virtually pick any of the radios available in the year or so before & after the car was delivered to the dealer &/or first sold new. They could be the German radios, VW of America (VoA) sourced radios from worldwide, or something in the car audio shops of the day of any brand.

For the above exact matches you'll be looking for a mfgr. date on the case of the radio - either in a label or stamping - within the noted date ranges, but the factory installed would never be later than the chassis number build date (roughly, since the dates weren't exact for completion).

For the period correct or "in the range" goal, you'll also use the radio mfgr date label/stamping & any of the 2nd option above radios from "back in the day" - so it's looser for date range before & after the 914's build date &/or 1st sold date.

As for the Sapphire in your pic - get the radio's mfgr. date & match to your buddy's goal for the correctness factor. If he's in the latter period correct - then AFAIK it's in the correct period - even if it were a later mfgd. "replacement" part even as far as into the early 1980's (or however long Blau continued to make them).

IMHO, the knobs look right, the face is the Basketweave pattern (not the 75-76 brickweave), it's got the silver plastic-chrome lever-dials for the L-R Balance & Tone behind the knobs, & looks as if it fits the period.

Beyond that for exact correct dating - the radio's mfgr date is the key to your decision, since one could literally get any radio put in a 914 here in the USA, if it wasn't one of the very few factory radio optioned cars.

Also FYI for your buddy - the only place he'd need to have exactly period correct might be at Parade, & probably only then if challenged by a competitor to force him/her to pull the radio to confirm its mfgr. date - which I think is highly unlikely.

Good Luck!
Tom
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Hey Mike,

It's probably not a bad idea for Steve to put it in the O&H forum here, so that other members will have benefit of the discussion, since most don't look at the classifieds for advice like this - aside from whatever advice I presume you gave him in the classified ad.

So you might want to just copy your advice from there, into here, for the benefit of others on here now & in the future.

Cheers!
Tom
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HeyTom
That's in your OO '73 ?
The molded plastic fascias were a 'non- German' radio feature ?
As an aside, 'dealer installed ' means 'anything is possible'

I was hoping you would chime in Tom. Thank you very much for your input. I concur with your assessment.

Yes, I bought my `73 in `75 from the OO, & that was the radio which they had the Porsche+Audi dealer here in OC install in it when or shortly after they bought the car new on 11/6/72.

However, it's actually been in a box since `79 when I "upgraded" to an AM/FM/Cassette deck which was a Xmas gift from a friend (ergo the dust), that is actually in the 914 as of now.

After the resto & repairs are done, then I'll clean up & have the original Motorola restored by Retro Radios in PA (or similar shop), & put it back in, & may even play some of my old "clackity-clack" 8-tracks for the car shows, C&Cs, etc. & fun drives!


I don't know for sure if the German radios &/or which of any others had plastic faces available, but they were molded for the specific radio's dial display & control cut-outs (the L & R dials are at standard locations on pretty much all radios from back then), plus the round top right corner notch for the 914's glovebox lock (so early ones may have differed due to the different early dash with no side vents & a wider glovebox door - if the lock position was different - not sure on that).

I believe I essentially said that dealer installed & outside shop/owner installed was anything goes - although the SoCal dealers I knew back then mostly only carried the German Porsche & VoA supplied radios (in the USA Porsche+Audi was part of VW of America), which may have been a requirement. A couple of new 914 buyers whom I know were referred out by their P+A dealers to local stereo/audio shops because they wanted particular Japanese or other USA brand radios. So dealer installed alone is "almost anything goes"!

PS - I can't recall the name of the California bred radio mfgr. that they were looking for, but their store in OC used to be on the west side of Beach Blvd. north of the I-405, but a quick google search didn't turn up the name. If anyone else cares to fill in for my brain fart, fell free to post it! Unfortunately, my mind this week/weekend has been on continuing ed courses for one of my license renewals, so it's overflowing with other BS!


So for Steve's buddy & others who might have a dealer invoice for their 914s (lucky dawgs!) which listed a dealer installed radio, then they should try to replicate that radio if listed, or at least use one of the P/V/A radios available at the dealers then.

Cheers!
Tom
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I googled 5VW3608 and found the following photo and information. Obviously it has an Audi face plate but the radio is the same Motorola 5VW3608.

1974-1976 AUDI 100 GL, AUDI 50, AUDI 80 GTE, AUDI 100 & PORSCHE 924 AM/FM STEREO.

It sounds like a period correct match, unless your buddy is looking to get an exact match to sale date.

There may also have been another 3608 &/or a 3607 or -06 which was similar, & used for <74 MYs, if you were to search further.

Ask the seller to find & send you pix of the labels & stampings, if you need further date confirmation.


Tom
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From my research, this is what I cautiously believe to be true.

Motorola AM/FM stereo radio 5VW3608 although period correct, was not available in 1973. More then likely they were manufactured beginning in 1974 which is what I always thought. However, I could be wrong. Maybe someone will come up with a photo showing a 5VW3608 radio dated prior to 1974.

Steve,

Unless you find otherwise on a mfgr. date on the radio, or other info that it was also available before 74 - that's possibly correct.

At 4 + decades later, it may be hard to find that radio dated earlier.

You could try to contact Motorola to ask if they have records, &/or contact one of the classic/retro radio restoration shops to see if they might have records on that model.

However, it wasn't uncommon back in the day for someone to either wait for their radio & get it later when their budget allowed - since many of us stretched our budgets to afford our 914s - or it could be a period correct later upgrade from say a cheap dealer installed AM or FM one band only radio, or a warranty replacement set, if the original weren't available. Many possibilities as to how & why a 74 mfgrd. radio is in a 73 914.

But it all gets back to how exacting your buddy wants to be - exactly 73 MY availability, or roughly period correct 72-74 +/- mfgrd.


Tom
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PS - Another thought Steve ...

I don't know for sure if car radios follow the auto model year convention of: Aug/Sept of MY minus 1, to June/July of MY - which makes sense since their radio models would need be ready to go into the earliest cars made in a MY, in order to go into a certain model year car.

So even if they say it was available for `74 MY cars - the earliest ones could've been made at some point in mid-year of calendar 1973, in order to be available at the start of `74 MY cars in Aug./Sept. `73. So it could've gone into a `73 MY 914 sold in `73, or even in a 73 car sold earlier & waited to install the radio later.

What's the VIN date & Chassis No. date of your buddy's 914?


Tom
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Yup. I passed all the info over to him so he can make the decision. Hmmm, being period correct brings up a whole new question (If you're not an Anal Purist, do not read any further) Using the radio as an example; If a specific radio was manufactured and available from 1974 through 1978, does that establish its period? And radios manufactured prior to 1974, would they be considered from different periods?

What's the VIN date & Chassis No. date of your buddy's 914?

I don't know

Steve,

I think that classic/vintage car groups like the AACA, etc., & PCA look at period correct as less of a tight limitation like that, but rather for the run of the car model & the couple of years after they were sold new. For longer running models like the various 911s, I believe that they go by the model phase more or less, like SWB & LWB, F, G, etc.

In most or all cases, I don't think that the concours organizations are going to split hairs so finely as to say it has to be only the model year of the particular car, & most agencies/etc. consider a car new for 2-3 years. So I suspect that most would consider the "period correctness" to at least span the 1970-76 period, & perhaps the entire `70's out to 1979.

As far as relative to the value of restoration or preservation cars - they would have to have the actual original radio 1st put in the car when sold or new added at the dealer for it to have any meaning to some collectors. I don't see how a later added radio of the exact year would add any value nor originality, just because it is not original to the car.

I think that in general, the radios would be considered period correct if they were available during the relatively short `70-`76 MYs run of our 914s, & perhaps available just a year or so before & after that - to cover ones that could be in stock before & installed, & those that could be installed or replaced shortly after the 914 was sold new (e.g.: for warranty or non-operational replacements, changes/upgrades of the radios, etc.).

One area on radios & other factory/dealer accessories would need a tighter match, would be for any finishes & details which changed during the 914 model run. So the faceplate would need to be the Basketweave for `70-74 or Brickweave for the `75-76 MYs, & perhaps for less chrome details & "blacked-out" items similar to other details on the later `74-76 914s - vs. the chrome look on the earlier `70-73 MY 914s, ergo my comment about the plasti-chrome dial handles.

However, it could also be said that an earlier 70-73 MY version radio may have had a plastic-chrome or metal surround at the rim around the dial & AM & FM "sliders" - as we've seen on some other radios, but that could be a radio price-point issue as well - with both types of trim black & shiny available ``70-76.

That's my thoughts on the question of period correct, & hopefully it makes sense to you & other readers (i.e.: not a rambling morass).


Tom
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Audiovox ?

Very good! Thank you Tom

No, but hopefully it will come to me eventually!

It was the guy's last name worked into the full name with audio, stereo, or something, & IIRC they sold both their brand & others.

Not hugely consequential to this conversation on 914 radios, other than as a 1970's factoid!


Tom
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