Recently purchased a car from 914club member and got burned. Purchased from out of state, took the word of the person and got shafted. Has this happened to you? What experiences and suggestions can anyone share in regards to protecting oneself from people who aren't honest? This topic just might save yourself oneday from getting f'ed. I would like to learn from other peoples experiences so that I will be better able next time to prevent something like this from happening again. Thanks..

Sorry to hear that. Purchasing a car is tough, generally the sellers think their car is worth more than it is, or overlook things that detract on the price. You have to be lucky and be in the same mindset as the seller.

Best thing you can do is have PPI's done by other club members, or fly out yourself and take a peek.

I bought a car from Craig (camp914) the deal turned out great, the car was more than I expected. I had no PPI done, but some conversations and photos from Craig. I used a little 914 faith and Craig's reputation and went for it. He was very upfront on making sure that I was happy, as he values his reputation.

I've bought a few cars from out of state. Very out of state. And the best way is to have someone you trust look over a car. Someone who has no interest in the car. If you ask there is probably someone who would be near by.

Ask for lots of pictures when buying. Hell hole, trunk, floors, longs.....all the places where there could be problems.

If you bought a car that had something major wrong with it, mabey the sellar didn't know. Or if it was mechanical, that can happen at any time.

Tell us what is wrong with it?

You need 3 things to buy a car sight-unseen.

#1 - A PPI from someone OTHER than the person selling it.

#2 - A PPI from someone OTHER than the person selling it.

#3 - A PPI from someone OTHER than the person selling it.


I've bought a few 914s in the past 6mos, and the only one I didn't SEE, or get a PPI on, I didn't expect to be more than a parts car. And even IT was worse than I expected. There were about 6 cars I PASSED on. That's the key.

I'd like to know who it was that sold you a bum car...did you try to work it out? Is this a member that has more than 5-6 posts like you?

I have a wheel deal currently -

guy is a regular on PP....doesnt take paypal though.
wants a certified check...

how can i ensure i get them delivered and not get shafted - (this is why i like paypal)

albeit its only 200 bucks...but its a bunch to me

See with own eyes.

Drive home with own gas.



M

Sorry to hear it. What are the details, and exactly what were you burned on? Did you ask thorough questions? Did you get alot of pics? Did the seller have any references? That is why feedback on an eBay sale can help determine a sellers reputation. As far as being a 914 club member, honesty is not a requirement when registering (maybe it's in the fine print), but you may be able to tell about a person by their posts.

I bought a car from another state via eBay and it was more than I expected and at a bargain. I bought another car and a parts car by personal inspection (which I did a poor job of) and lost time and money with them. The upside is I learned how to work and dismantle them.

You win some and lose some...

Shoot, I've gotten taken by people even when I saw the car first. Sometimes, a personal inspection isn't enough unless you get VERY close and personal.

I've also had great deals from people I hardly knew.

There are no read hard-and-fast rules. It all comes down to judgement in individual cases. Gotta trust your gut. If something doesn't feel right, walk away. Educate yourself as much as possible about the car, and ask pointed questions. Getting a third party to do a PPI is an excellent bit of advice, if it's at all possible.

I'm going to hope the person you bought the car from wasn't "a regular", someone who posts here often. I agree with Felix, post all the details you're comfortable posting. We can also learn from you.

Yes I got one off the club site.
Within two hours of posting.
Excellent deal for me.
Pic's were provided, great comunication on the phone.
You get a feel real fast if someone is BS or telling it true.
No ppi shipping was high but I got a good deal.

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jun 7 2005, 03:03 PM)

I have a wheel deal currently - guy is a regular on PP....doesnt take paypal though. wants a certified check... how can i ensure i get them delivered and not get shafted - (this is why i like paypal) albeit its only 200 bucks...but its a bunch to me

Pay him by Postal Money order (and not one of the fake ones either)

Mail him the money order and spend the $0.45 to get tracking on it.

If he flakes on you, you can sic the Postal Police on him for mail fraud.

QUOTE (GWN7 @ Jun 7 2005, 07:27 PM)

Pay him by Postal Money order (and not one of the fake ones either) Mail him the money order and spend the $0.45 to get tracking on it. If he flakes on you, you can sic the Postal Police on him for mail fraud.

I did that once, and the bum is in a FEDERAL prison right now...they don't mess around.

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Jun 7 2005, 07:32 PM)

QUOTE (GWN7 @ Jun 7 2005, 07:27 PM) Pay him by Postal Money order (and not one of the fake ones either)  ;) Mail him the money order and spend the $0.45 to get tracking on it. If he flakes on you, you can sic the Postal Police on him for mail fraud. I did that once, and the bum is in a FEDERAL prison right now...they don't mess around.

What happened? Sounds like a good (well actually bad) story.

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Jun 7 2005, 07:54 PM)

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Jun 7 2005, 07:32 PM) QUOTE (GWN7 @ Jun 7 2005, 07:27 PM) Pay him by Postal Money order (and not one of the fake ones either)  ;) Mail him the money order and spend the $0.45 to get tracking on it. If he flakes on you, you can sic the Postal Police on him for mail fraud. I did that once, and the bum is in a FEDERAL prison right now...they don't mess around. What happened? Sounds like a good (well actually bad) story.

Pretty funny actually...not for him.

I was in the RC industry, and sold a bunch of batteries to a new dealer, or so I thought. He'd faked the business license, Tax-ID and banking info he faxed. I didn't double-check, and sent off the batteries. (about $2,000 worth) Turned out that he was just a dead-beat that wanted real good batteries. He f-ed himself by mailing me all the above info. He did it Priority Mail, and I had the tracking data and everything.

I'd sent the batteries by Priority Mail also, and he mailed me back 2K in Monopoly money and a piece of paper that said "F$%K You Maroon!" (Yeap...he mis-spelled Moron!) I called the post office and they started an investigation. They had the schmuck on video mailing the stuff, and his prints on the money.

It was over $501, AND he falsified federal documents. So he went to jail. The funniest was the Judge using the line "Go straight to jail, and do not collect $200...in Monopoly money."

I think he got 5yrs for that little stunt.

LOL That is funny

The time serves him right. I'll have to remember to use a postal money order the next time I am not confident that I won't get burned.

QUOTE (GWN7 @ Jun 7 2005, 06:27 PM)

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jun 7 2005, 03:03 PM) I have a wheel deal currently - guy is a regular on PP....doesnt take paypal though. wants a certified check... how can i ensure i get them delivered and not get shafted - (this is why i like paypal) albeit its only 200 bucks...but its a bunch to me Pay him by Postal Money order (and not one of the fake ones either) Mail him the money order and spend the $0.45 to get tracking on it. If he flakes on you, you can sic the Postal Police on him for mail fraud.

One of these days I'll have to tell ya'll a little story about what happens when an over zealous, but stupid, assistant bank manager decides that your U.S.P.S. Money Orders that you paid cash for at the post office are conterfeit.

One advantage to the 914club is that you can ask someone close to the car you are buying to posibbly take a look at it for you. I have done this on occasion and it has worked out that I passed on the cars.
I have bought cars off ebay and they are fine one was not. You live and learn.
This is a smalll community and I feel that you have to be able to trust the people you buy from here. We have seen it go a wrong here recently, with Kevin and Steve.

I sell cars and parts at CAMP 914. I try to be honest and fair with each transaction. I like to talk to a potential customer. I think it helps me to understand what a customer wants. I have told people not to buy a car becasue it wasn't right for them and what they wanted. I would rather have them mad at me for not selling them a car than selling them one they would later regret. I think it is important to keep the lines of communication open to all discussions. If the buyer is not happy what do I have to do to make them happy.

It appears that you have listed the car you purchased in the classifieds. Sorry it had to happen.
Craig C. Laughlin

Uh-oh

My crazy brother Greg (pete-greggers) took my car for a drive and decided it would be a better buy than a beetle, so I started looking,
I emailed or phoned the prospective sellers
asking for pics of front trunk, rear trunk, hell hole, rear suspension mounts, and inner longs, as well as outside pics
some replied, some didn't,
some sent pics, some didn't
finally found a car on the bird board
he replied, and sent all the requested pics
he had dropped his price substantially from his original post, so I offered him 250 more if he would hold it for a few days until greg could fly down....
Greg drove it clear from Santa Fe to BC can with nothing going really wrong with the car.....
we looked for three months until we found that deal....
If you don't want to wait or do the searching...call Craig first at camp 914

I am sorry to here this, I am now in the middle of a transaction like yours. I first saw an ad and got some pictures. I decided to spend an extra 175.00 and put the money in an escrow account. The terms are, if the car was correctly described and I am satisfied I will release the money. I have 14 days to except or reject the transaction. I surely wont get off free if something goes bad but the bulk of the money is protected (I hope). I know you will learn allot from this subject but the bottom line is some people are bad to the core. There are so many honest guys out there but now they are all put under the microscope because of this one loser. Where did the car come from?? If you have an address maybe someone can do something, or knows more about this guy and can apply lawful, legitimate pressure on him??
John, P.S. I saw a car, V8 914 on EBAY that had poor reviews on this site. I emailed the winning bidder and gave him a heads up. The seller freaked and rolled over and told the truth. The sale was canceled. Don't look now but its back on EBAY again. The seller only disclosed part of the problem so he's still up to no good. The car is a white V8 914 with a 916 kit and flairs.

Thanks for the input. I asked the appropiate questions. I've discovered that asking the right questions is only part of the deal. If the seller isn't going to be truthful then your truly going to be taken if you take the chance on believing what they tell you. This car was purchased from a well known club member on this site. I was referred to this member by another well known club member. I felt based on this, that I had a reliable and honest seller. I was reassured throughout the buying process by the seller that he was honest and that he stood behind the car. Seller paid for some repairs initially but has refused to reimburse for the major repairs regarding the camshaft, etc. Never disclosed to me upfront these problems as well as the numerous other things I'll wind up replacing.
What legal remedies exist when buying from someone out of state? I know ebay offers some protection, but what about a sale between private parties? Again thanks the replies, hope you don't have happen to you what has happened to me. Don't trust someone just because there well known and a frequent poster on this board.

Sandman, sorry to hear about this. As far as legal avenues, I would think it would have a lot to do with how your bill of sale was worded. Is the condition of the car, or any of the repairs mentioned in the bill of sale? Word of mouth is just a he said/he said sort of thing. Almost all car sales like that are going to be as is/where is. I would think that it would be very hard to get any kind of legal satisfaction, but then I'm not an attorney.

QUOTE (sandman @ Jun 8 2005, 08:21 AM)

Thanks for the input. I asked the appropiate questions. I've discovered that asking the right questions is only part of the deal. If the seller isn't going to be truthful then your truly going to be taken if you take the chance on believing what they tell you. This car was purchased from a well known club member on this site. I was referred to this member by another well known club member. I felt based on this, that I had a reliable and honest seller. I was reassured throughout the buying process by the seller that he was honest and that he stood behind the car. Seller paid for some repairs initially but has refused to reimburse for the major repairs regarding the camshaft, etc. Never disclosed to me upfront these problems as well as the numerous other things I'll wind up replacing. What legal remedies exist when buying from someone out of state? I know ebay offers some protection, but what about a sale between private parties? Again thanks the replies, hope you don't have happen to you what has happened to me. Don't trust someone just because there well known and a frequent poster on this board.

Not saying that I don't believe you...

With this limited information and a newbie poster... it just doesn't pass the smell test

You did buy a used car after all. Used cars are generally sold "as-is" and with no warranty. The fact that the seller paid for some of the repairs says a lot. With most used car deals that isn't a requirement at all. There is such a thing as a bad buyer too. Or I should say, buyers are subject to making mistakes and exagerations also. There are differences between how you define a term and how the seller defines a term. And you (as the buyer) are responsible for making your own evaluation of a car and it's value. In the end though, it's a USED CAR, generally with no warranty either express or implied.

I could post repair receipts and emails from seller. That would clear the air....

I think what everyone is hinting at is their desire to hear the details so the case can be resolved in "The Court of Public Opinion". Not sure how appropriate this is but it may be a good thing....keeps everyone honest

QUOTE (tdgray @ Jun 8 2005, 09:23 AM)

Not saying that I don't believe you... With this limited information and a newbie poster... it just doesn't pass the smell test  <_<

The 5-6 posts you have made in this forum are all complaining about a bad deal. If I knoew you better, I'd tell you to suck it up and deal with it. If the seller reimbursed you for some of the repairs, I'd say that is a LOT more than most people would do. You can't expect someone to make the car perfect. If it's the car that I'm thinking it was, I don't believe it was EVER represented as perfect.

If it's a USED car, it's a USED car. If the seller didn't know about something, then you really can't hold them responsible. I believe the words "AS-IS, WHERE-IS" are used a lot when buying a 30+yr old car for a reason.

I sold a car once to a guy, and the engine blew a week later. Was there ANY way I could have know that would happen? Nope. I'd had the car for about 2mos. Never drove it. The guy was upset, but at the same time, understood that it was a USED car. I reimbursed him for the shipping because I felt bad, not because I had to.

My Dad used to tell me "If you buy a used car, expect to replace the whole thing in a month...because you just might have to."

I find it interesting that the person who sold me this car has yet to defend themselves. They are awhere of my posts. They are free to dispute anything I have posted.
It was a used car, I realize it wasn't new. The difference is that he represented the car as being in good running condition. He clearly misrepresented the car, its condition, etc. It wasn't, it went from the transport to the shop and from the shop to my garage where it now sits. The seller was given every opportunity to make it right. He chose not to. He's honest because he paid for part of the repairs??? No way. I don't buy this mentality. He purposely dumped the car on me with these problems. My mistake for trusting him, lesson learned. We can all learn from my experience. He's free to respond. I'm posting simply on the principal of what he did, its not right. If I can prevent someone else from being taken by him or someone else then my message will be heard. Food for thought.

Some people find it unseemly to air dirty laundry in public. Such "discussions" just tend to get really ugly fast, and serve no useful purpose. Everyone comes out looking like a petty yutz more often than not.

I've been PM'd by the other party, and I presume some other club members have been, too. Said person has not only been here awhile, but has deals with other people that have turned out well. As such, they have more credibility here than you do. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. This isn't to say you yourself are lying, but only that in any case where a statement made is open to interpretation, that most people here would be more likely to choose the interpretation that favors the seller.

Well said James...

I have to agree with James too.

I have purchased cars and many parts from the seller, and he has always told me everything he knew about the product.

I have had problems with others I have bought cars from, but basically the question is can you definitively know he knew about the problems? He only had it a short while, and barely drove it, and others test drove it without any problems, so the burdon falls to you for the proof.

He gave you a kickback where I never got anything, and I bet he can give you names of test drivers who will say it was running fine.

I have had more problems with the car movers doing damage than the car owner!

Well, thats not to say that nobody will side with you because you dont post here a lot. It's just that many of the people here know the seller very well, know the car and his reputation is very strong here. I know the car personally and did a PPI on it for the seller when he bought it. I still have the pictures I think. The seller didnt build the car, he bought it just a few months before selling it. Had some financial needs for something else and started selling everything he could. I referred you to him to help you both out. I am sorry it didnt turn out so perfectly for the both of you. The camshaft is not something that could have been known. It could happen to any car. Even my Chalon. I would say at this point, you know that car more than anyone on here. The one thing I will say, I admire you for not posting his name, it shows a level of control and I respect that. I also didnt know he has sent you money to help you out with it, that is also a respectable thing. I vote we end this hacking and work through it and all get along. If you were closer, I would voluteer to come help you swap out the cam, I am sure we could do it in a day. Good luck with it and lets all have a drink.

I think pretty much everyone knows who the other party is. What is missing from the story (in my opinion) is... what was the misrepresentation? Cam is bad.. Did he know and not tell you? How do you know? These questions need answering before the rest of us can really even tell what's going on.

No good can come of this thread continuing...seriously.

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Jun 8 2005, 09:31 AM)

No good can come of this thread continuing...seriously.

IMHO:
Buyer, make a list of what you expected, what you received, and what it will take to make you happy. PM it to seller.
Seller, respond.
Then if you both want to post the results, do so. Otherwise let it die.

100%

Work it out offline. In light of the recent bashing threads and the ugly feelings left behind, I'm going to lock this one.

We're done here...