In true 914 fashion the guys who I ordered them from made 8" rather than 7". So now I have to make a decision, stick with the 8" wheels and bash out of the rear fender a litle more or return them and get 7" wheels? These are 8" with 5" backspacing

I love the idea of the 8" wheels and they look real cool. Since this car is going to be a dedicated AX I guess 8" will work.

These wheels are crazy light weight. The box of 4 wheels with shipping materials weighed 42lbs!

I have another question for the SF Bay Area "club" members. Who in the South Bay Area can mount slicks on lightweight race wheels without screwing them up? I dont trust any of the guys in Santa Cruz with these babies!

I'll post some pictures soon, but I'm having trouble with my image server right now.

Can't wait to see, as I may order a set myself.

KT

bummer, the one time you get something "extra" and cannot use it.......

are your tires considered "race" or DOT???

if "race", then mounting them on the 8" wide rims might throw you in a class that you don't want to be in (cubic dollars)

lmao, grant. post the images here!

here's the deal with your 'bonus' inch: you'll be screwed in classing if you want to run cantilever slicks. not just in pca, but in scca i believe, too (EP and GT3 run 15x7's i think, if you take your car in that direction -- but i don't have a clue in this regard...)

i'd run 'em though! i can't wait to see you have to roll your fenders!!!

Looks like Grant will find himself in FM with *everything* , but, the motor.

I'm sure he has a PLAN for that, too.

KT

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 7 2005, 05:09 PM)

bummer, the one time you get something "extra" and cannot use it....... are your tires considered "race" or DOT??? if "race", then mounting them on the 8" wide rims might throw you in a class that you don't want to be in (cubic dollars)

DOT rated Hoosiers. Think I'm OK? I'm liking the idea of that big flat contact patch the 8 inches will provide. ....And I'm good at bashing fenders! Got my 15x7 inch wheels with 4 1/4 inch back spacing to fit just fine!

Any suggestions on tire places who can mount my Hoosiers on these bad boys?

With the money I saved I can get a header. or another set of tiars.

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jun 7 2005, 05:40 PM)

With the money I saved I can get a header. or another set of tiars.

With the 9 lbs per wheel rotational mass savings I have over your wheels I have more useable HP. Worth the money to me right now especailly since I have a wheezy stock 1.8 powerplant. Bet I'll be the fastest stock powered 1.8 in the land! LOL! These wheels weigh in at just a little over 10 lbs.

Here they are:

Grant,

If you already have your tires, what kind and size are they?

..

Knowing what I do now about my car. I don't need no lighter wheels. I need to be a better driver. When the day comes that I can drive with the big dogs CONSISTANTLY then I might spring for better wheels.

You are now out of excuses for not being fast. That 1.8L has more guts than you think when you can stand on the gas through a 60 ft slalom shoot though a chicago box never lifting off the gas. Hit 3rd gear through a sweeper GAINING speed!!!! Yes my friend your car will now do that with Hoosiers. You will totally shit yourself the 1st time you get it right.

and ditch the rear bar.

QUOTE (joseph222 @ Jun 7 2005, 06:47 PM)

Grant, If you already have your tires, what kind and size are they? ..

205/50/15 DOT AX Hoosiers.

Who did you order them from?

WOW!

Neat!


M

QUOTE (porsha916 @ Jun 7 2005, 07:07 PM)

Who did you order them from?  :driving:

Keizer Wheels www.keizerwheels.com

These are dedicated three piece race wheels with all the hassels associated, but oh they are light!!! These were the lightest wheels I could find for a "reasonable" price, $250 each. Keizer gave me a little sponsorship discount.

They said depending on their stock of inserts these wheels could range from $270 to $290 retail.

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Jun 7 2005, 08:59 PM)

QUOTE (joseph222 @ Jun 7 2005, 06:47 PM) Grant, If you already have your tires, what kind and size are they? .. 205/50/15 DOT AX Hoosiers.

With the money you are spending on those wheels, I wouldn't make a rash decision on accepting the 8s. You will regret throwing yourself into a class you won't be competitive in.

You might want to consider sticking with the 7" as planned. It's the optimum size for the 205s. And they are even smaller & lighter. Less unsprung weight which will give you even faster suspension response and quicker acceleration and transitions.

I would be concerned about the shape of the profile you will have fitting the 205s on the 8s. You may end up finding you really need 225s for those big 8" wheels. And if so, you've just added 4lbs of unsprung weight. And you will have to stretch your fenders even farther out. And remember, the smaller tires will provide higher operating temps for better traction.

I run 205s/7"F and 225s/8"R. I think my car would be faster if I had 205s/7" on the rear as well. I will be switching next season when my Kumhos are gone.


Some things to think about.

..

QUOTE (joseph222 @ Jun 7 2005, 07:57 PM)

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Jun 7 2005, 08:59 PM) QUOTE (joseph222 @ Jun 7 2005, 06:47 PM) Grant, If you already have your tires, what kind and size are they? .. 205/50/15 DOT AX Hoosiers. I would be concerned about the shape of the profile you will have fitting the 205s on the 8s. You may end up finding you really need 225s for those big 8" wheels. And if so, you've just added 4lbs of unsprung weight. And you will have to stretch your fenders even farther out. And remember, the smaller tires will provide higher operating temps for better traction.

According to Hoosier optimum wheel width for the A3SO4 205/50/15's would be 7.5" to 8.5". 7.0" would fall below optimum range according to Hoosier on these specific tires. What is your 7.0" optimum wheel width calculation based from?

As long as I stay with DOT approved slicks I'll be ok with my current classing.

I've got my 205/50/15 Hoosier track tires and my Yokohama A032's on 5.5" Westerns with 4" backspacing and I really like it.

The "wrong" backspace effectively gives me a 1" wider track front and rear. It's like running 1/2" spacers.

How much tread width you get with the 8" rims, Grant, is what I'll be looking at.

I'd consider running a 15x7 rim with 3.5" backspace to widen my track and tire tread footprint if it makes that big a differance.

When will you debut the new skins?

KT

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jun 7 2005, 09:12 PM)

I've got my 205/50/15 Hoosier track tires and my Yokohama A032's on 5.5" Westerns with 4" backspacing and I really like it. The "wrong" backspace effectively gives me a 1" wider track front and rear. It's like running 1/2" spacers. How much tread width you get with the 8" rims, Grant, is what I'll be looking at. I'd consider running a 15x7 rim with 3.5" backspace to widen my track and tire tread footprint if it makes that big a differance. When will you debut the new skins? KT

I should have these on by this Saturday. I just need to find somone I can trust to mount them soon!

I've got an *in* with the America's Tire here in Napa.
$30 mount and balance by the manager himself.

My A3S04's *should* be here this week.

KT

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Jun 7 2005, 10:53 PM)

[/QUOTE] According to Hoosier optimum wheel width for the A3SO4 205/50/15's would be 7.5" to 8.5". 7.0" would fall below optimum range according to Hoosier on these specific tires. What is your 7.0" optimum wheel width calculation based from?

The Tire Rack chart.

Of course Hoosier's are correct. So the 205s won't be a problem for you. That's good.

I recall that Hoosier's run wider than their numbers. I physically borrowed a set to make sure they would work for my car before I ordered. The last set I had always chirped against the fender when I hit a dip. My Kumhos in the same size do not (even with less neg.camber).

You might want to check Kumho and Firestone specs for the wider rim to see how they would work for you in the event that in the future you become motivated to try other tires

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jun 7 2005, 09:12 PM)

I've got my 205/50/15 Hoosier track tires and my Yokohama A032's on 5.5" Westerns with 4" backspacing and I really like it. The "wrong" backspace effectively gives me a 1" wider track front and rear. It's like running 1/2" spacers. How much tread width you get with the 8" rims, Grant, is what I'll be looking at. I'd consider running a 15x7 rim with 3.5" backspace to widen my track and tire tread footprint if it makes that big a differance. When will you debut the new skins? KT

The 15 x 8 and Hoosier 205/50-15 fit real nice. the side wall is straight up and down.
the contact patch is the entire face of the tread. there is no crown. I ran this weekend with 30 PSI after ten runs the tread wear was perfect. pressures went up a pound or two after each run till Number 8 and then seemed to settle down. camber is set at 1.7 front and rear. cause thats all I can get.
Grip for days. as to the Qustion of how much wider are these Hoosiers than Kumhos? ALOT stacked all Kumhos on 4 lug Fuchs and all Hoosiers on 15 x 8 rims side by side all 205/50-15
Hoosiers are near 7 inches taller my track is near 4 inches wider too.

the guys at Roger Kraus Racing mount race tires on expensive, lightweight racing tires every day. i drove there from Reno to have them do mine.

I mounted mine myself. Well I have access to a tire machine. didn't balance them because after one event what's the point.
Make sure you use lots of that soapy solution. When the bead finally seat it sounded like a gun going off. Oh the warning label on the tire says not to use over 40 PIS seat bead. Thats good to know. Just a little difficult to wrestle on the rim it took two of us. and a good set of tire irons to keep the bead down in the middle of the rim section.

Rich, at HPH can mount them for you, Grant.

KT

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jun 8 2005, 05:45 AM)

Rich, at HPH can mount them for you, Grant. KT

Thanks Trekkor, I didnt realize he had tire mounting equipment.

A 205 is too narrow for an 8in wheel. The 225/50 is the correct size for a non catilevered tire. I could not get the 15*8 with a 5 in backspace to fit under the stock rear fenders even on my heavily massaged rear fenders. With a cantilevered slick (9.5x 23.5) I had to run a .25 in spacer to keep the tire from rubbing the body on the inside.

If you need more power I can help you with that. Look in the classifieds.

QUOTE (Brett W @ Jun 8 2005, 09:56 AM)

A 205 is too narrow for an 8in wheel. The 225/50 is the correct size for a non catilevered tire. I could not get the 15*8 with a 5 in backspace to fit under the stock rear fenders even on my heavily massaged rear fenders. With a cantilevered slick (9.5x 23.5) I had to run a .25 in spacer to keep the tire from rubbing the body on the inside. If you need more power I can help you with that. Look in the classifieds.

Brett please explain. 205/50-15 Hoosier on 8" rim
I just did it and I think it works great
Them suckers are wide as a 225
I would definately agree with a Kumho at least and inch narrower.

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jun 8 2005, 04:43 PM)

QUOTE (Brett W @ Jun 8 2005, 09:56 AM) A 205 is too narrow for an 8in wheel.  The 225/50 is the correct size for a non catilevered tire.  I could not get the 15*8 with a 5 in backspace to fit under the stock rear fenders even on my heavily massaged rear fenders.  With a cantilevered slick (9.5x 23.5) I had to run a .25 in spacer to keep the tire from rubbing the body on the inside. If you need more power I can help you with that. Look in the classifieds. Brett please explain. 205/50-15 Hoosier on 8" rim I just did it and I think it works great Them suckers are wide as a 225 I would definately agree with a Kumho at least and inch narrower.

'cause he knows more than the engineers that make the tire??? j/k

tirerack list the following for a 205/50/15 comp tire

Avon: max rec. width 7.5
Hoosiers: max rec. width 8
Kuhmo: max rec. width 7.5

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 8 2005, 03:55 PM)

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jun 8 2005, 04:43 PM) QUOTE (Brett W @ Jun 8 2005, 09:56 AM) A 205 is too narrow for an 8in wheel.  The 225/50 is the correct size for a non catilevered tire.  I could not get the 15*8 with a 5 in backspace to fit under the stock rear fenders even on my heavily massaged rear fenders.  With a cantilevered slick (9.5x 23.5) I had to run a .25 in spacer to keep the tire from rubbing the body on the inside. If you need more power I can help you with that. Look in the classifieds. Brett please explain. 205/50-15 Hoosier on 8" rim I just did it and I think it works great Them suckers are wide as a 225 I would definately agree with a Kumho at least and inch narrower. 'cause he knows more than the engineers that make the tire??? j/k tirerack list the following for a 205/50/15 comp tire Avon: max rec. width 7.5 Hoosiers: max rec. width 8 Kuhmo: max rec. width 7.5

If you read the information that comes with Hoosier tires they say they publish guidlines outlined by the DOT for comparison sakes - those are the numbers tire rack publishes. They actually reccomend rim width within plus or minus 1/2 inch of the tread width. Given that the 205 Hoosier tread width is 8 inches 8 inch rim width perfect. Mounted my tires today and the sidewalls still buldge over the 8 inch rims.

I did a test fit in the rear. Plenty of inside fender well clearence, the clerence on my mildly rolled rear fenders is close. I jacked up opposite side of the car and sat on the rear fender and the tire didnt get close to rubbing. I dont think I'm going to have much of a problem getting them to fit at the current ride hieght.

But now comes the headache of three piece rims. 3 of my wheels leak. Now I need to get silicone unmount the tires and fix them. I hope this isnt going to be a chronic problem!

Why are we withouts pics?

KT

The number 205 or 225 is the section width...max width orf the tire which is seldom the tread width.....even on Hoosiers.

Hoosier race tires are much different than a regular street tire. They are much wider than the same size street tire. For most tire applications the best fit for the tire wheel package is to have the wheel the same width as the tire tread face. This assures that the tire sidewall is properly loaded. On a tire such as a 205-50 on a 5.5 inch wheel the tire will actually bulge a little in the middle of the face of the tread surface. On a wheel that is wider than the face of the tread the cornering forces will act upon the sidewall in a manner that is beyond the design parameters of the shoulder of the tire. The side wall will be loaded not in a direct vertical manner. Thus causing a break down in the sidewall stiffness over time.

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jun 8 2005, 04:42 PM)

Why are we withouts pics? KT

....Because its raining in Bonny Doon. I dashed out during breif clearing this afternoon mounted one rim/tire on the back, unpacked all my fiberglass (Hood, trunk, bumpers) and got the first coat of black paint on them. Rushed everything back inside as clouds came back in. Then got the rear wheel off as it started to rain pulled my car back into the temporary garage.

I have a pic of the tire on the wheel thats it for now. I'm depressed over the leaks. I dont know if I'll get that fixed in time for Saturday.

pic of 205/50 Hoosier sitting perfectly on a 8" rim, ...slowly leaking.

Tasty...

What kind of leakdown?

Run 'em.

Check pressure between runs.

KT

QUOTE (trekkor @ Jun 8 2005, 06:54 PM)

Tasty... What kind of leakdown? Run 'em. Check pressure between runs. KT

Two of the leakers go like this: "spisssssssssssssssssssssssss" and leak down quickly. My local resources were not up for helping me out. I'm going to call Roger Kraus Racing tomorrow morning and see if they can help me. I dont trust my Silicone sealing skills. Figure they have seen this stuff before and know how to get a good seal.

..and you know I just cant imagine these tires on anything smaller than 8" wheels. Tires buldge over these rims significantly. I'm thinking 8.5" rim is perfect for these tires.

nah -- they mount fine on my 6.5"s... the mounting lip goes so far in that i'd bet even a 6" rim would support the sidewalls enough...

as for the leak... god, that's a bummer. they didn't come with a fresh seal? ask Keizer for their sealing procedure -- they'll let you know they proper procedures and torque values and such... should not be real difficult though.

good luck grant -- let me know if there's anything i can do to help, i'd really like to see you run these on saturday.

n

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jun 8 2005, 08:15 PM)

nah -- they mount fine on my 6.5"s... the mounting lip goes so far in that i'd bet even a 6" rim would support the sidewalls enough... as for the leak... god, that's a bummer. they didn't come with a fresh seal? ask Keizer for their sealing procedure -- they'll let you know they proper procedures and torque values and such... should not be real difficult though. good luck grant -- let me know if there's anything i can do to help, i'd really like to see you run these on saturday. n

Yeah they have torque specs, but these were supposed to be torqued from the factory. Seals were there. Only thing I can think is the guy installing didnt follow procedure correctly. Thats after I reviewed it with him. They specifically say not to use bursts of high pressure to seat tires.

I'll just take the wheels to some professionals. I dont have time to screw with this stuff now that my business is taking off. I'm running out of time to to do much more with the car. I'll be lucky to get all the fiberglass on the car by the weekend. I may just install trunk and hood this week.

1/2 can of fix-a-flat?




M

QUOTE (redshift @ Jun 8 2005, 08:34 PM)

1/2 can of fix-a-flat? M

Nasty!!!! .but I thought he same thing!

I have a fair amount of experience with rebuilding Keizer 3 piece wheels.
The most common way for leaks to occur is during tire mounting or dismounting. A tire iron (or maybe even the inner edge of the tire itself) can inadverdently cut the silicone bead between the rim halves. Extreme care is required when installing/removing tires from such wheels.
Look for the leak on the assembled tire/wheel with a squirt bottle of soapy water. If it comes from the bolt area you are most likely screwed and will have to rebuild the wheel.
Rebuilding these wheels is not a simple process. You have to remove the 15 5/16" bolts, then separate the rim halves which are silicone glued together. Then you have to thoroughly clean off all the silicone from both halves.
To reassemble, apply fresh RTV to the mating surfaces and bolt together, carefully torquing new 5/16" bolts and nuts in a sequence (recommended by Keizer). (Even a little too much torque means the bolts may pop unexpectedly if you hit a pot-hole.) Next you have to apply a fresh RTV bead in the groove between the rim halves, being sure to get a good bond on the metal surfaces, and wait at least 24 hours before reinstalling tires. If you're careful you can probably do a better job than the factory.

Or you might try putting RTV into the location of the seal damage, without disassembling the wheel. I wouldn't attempt this on a track wheel, but you might get away with it on an ax wheel.
YMMV

Damn Chris, You have really helped me feel better about my Diamond Steelies. Wrestle the tire on and pump it up. Seat the bead with a mighty ka-pow. All is good. Next set of tires wil be 225/45-15. But hopefully that will be next year. at least that's what I am told from the chief of finance.

QUOTE (Racer Chris @ Jun 9 2005, 03:37 AM)

I have a fair amount of experience with rebuilding Keizer 3 piece wheels. The most common way for leaks to occur is during tire mounting or dismounting. A tire iron (or maybe even the inner edge of the tire itself) can inadverdently cut the silicone bead between the rim halves. Extreme care is required when installing/removing tires from such wheels. Look for the leak on the assembled tire/wheel with a squirt bottle of soapy water. If it comes from the bolt area you are most likely screwed and will have to rebuild the wheel. Rebuilding these wheels is not a simple process. You have to remove the 15 5/16" bolts, then separate the rim halves which are silicone glued together. Then you have to thoroughly clean off all the silicone from both halves. To reassemble, apply fresh RTV to the mating surfaces and bolt together, carefully torquing new 5/16" bolts and nuts in a sequence (recommended by Keizer). (Even a little too much torque means the bolts may pop unexpectedly if you hit a pot-hole.) Next you have to apply a fresh RTV bead in the groove between the rim halves, being sure to get a good bond on the metal surfaces, and wait at least 24 hours before reinstalling tires. If you're careful you can probably do a better job than the factory. Or you might try putting RTV into the location of the seal damage, without disassembling the wheel. I wouldn't attempt this on a track wheel, but you might get away with it on an ax wheel. YMMV

Thanks!