Hello teeners

Looking for some advice please

I have a 72 V8 conversion (I Know not a real 14)

Really fun to drive

I just tried to start it and I do get power to dash and radio but the fule pump cuts out and no crank when I turn the key to the full starting position.

The 2 things I have notice

1 Battery was low (Now Charging)
2 No cranking no clicking nothing.
3 Fuel pump cuts out
4 flashers tied to the e-brake keep flashing

could it be the e-brake sensor?
Clutch sensor/switch?
Starter?

ignition switch?

Checked all relays and fuses I can find
All seem good.

Thanks

Mike

If you've got a strong battery and feel the starter is OK, pull the spark plugs; maybe you've got a foreign object in a cylinder

The starter draws a TON of power. A dead battery won't even pop the soliniod to engage the starter gear, even if you have enough juice to get some of the lights to work for a little while.

Before panicking, make sure the battery has a good charge and try again. Its likely just the battery.

Zach

There is no clutch sensor
There is no ebrake sensor.

Spring awakening, charge up the battery.

Thanks Everyone for your advice.

I measured 12.34 VDC on the battery.

Took it up to NAPA.

NAPA tested it saying it is still good but is discharged to 56%.

I have it on trickle charge 2AMP/hr hope it is the battery.

Mike

Hello

Charged Battery overnight.
It was reading 13.11 volts
Re-installed in car nothing no click no crank no sound.

Crawled under to the starter

12VDC on main lug

Shoved red lead of meter into yellow wire Ignition switch wire I believe

Grounded black lead onto door hinge keep

Turned the key...no power thru the ignition wire....

is there a relay between the ignition switch in the column and the starter?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=222...ype=3&ifg=1

First thing you always do, clean all the grounds, trans strap, all power connections, battery terminals, etc., then go from there.

Flashing E-lights makes me think you have a bad connection somewhere, it can do some funky poop.

Good Advice

I will clean battery terminal as well as the ground strap

Thanks

Mike

I am not a believer in the hot start gizmo. Porsche didn't install it. These cars have started as built for years and years. I'm of the camp that a guy should just fix the real problem not add a Rube Goldberg device.

Before you get too concerned and start added stuff the car never had to fix a problem you haven't really discovered check the battery. If the battery is good do the Ed test. Take a set of "good" jumper cables, connect the positive lead to the battery and the positive post on the starter then the ground to the battery then the transaxle. Start the car. If this works change the battery cables. I chased a bad battery cable for a year, intermittent starts, slow cranking to no start condition. Replaced the stock cable that appeared perfect in every way. I would have used it on a concours car. Fixed the problem without adding the mystery problem solver do-dad.

A stock 72 had a starter interlock relay under the passenger seat that prevented starting the car without seat belts fastened.

Your car is not stock so who knows what has been done with the wiring to the starter.

Most car by now have probably had the starter interlock under the passenger seat bypassed. You can check under the passenger seat and see if the yellow and yellow/red wire have been connected together and have a good connection. You can also check for power (12v) on the yellow wire from the ignition switch in start position.

As others have said check for ground problems.

Jim

Not just the battery ground, but he body ground straps, disconnect the body straps and clean the connection area.
Example, the on at the exhaust heat shields area under the rear trunk.
I learned this from the forum years ago. Mike

Hello

Well I bought a new battery>

No crank no start

Replacced the ignition switch

No crank no start

Cleaned battery terminals no luck

Next I will begin cleaning all electrical connections with wire brushes.

I removed seat to check realy and found this...should it cut the connecton off and jump the 2 wires together?

Check the relay board connections.

Hello Everyone

I have been cleaning connectors and checking the realy board.

I am getting 12 volts into pin 1 from the ignition switch>

Pin 1 and outgoing Pin 6 ohm out with no resistance.
However no voltage out of pin 6

Checked all 3 relays (all Working)

Scrubbed every connector I could find

Any ideas?

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...t&id=424733

The relay/circuit board in the engine compartment is just a pass through for the started circuit, none of the relays on the board have any impact on the started circuit.

When you are checking for voltage at pin 1 of the 14 pin connector and then again at pin 6 of the 12 pin connector, are the harnesses unplugged or are you back probing the connectors?
Some time a connection can be just strong enough to carry the small voltage of an ohm meter but looses connection with more voltage or load. Also some time the physical force of a connector moves thing enough to break a connection.

You can also test for voltage at the circuit through the panel by testing at T2 (II) or T4 (IV) of the FI socket on the board, both of them are tied to the same circuit.

If you apply power to the wire at pin 6 of the 12 pin connector does the starter crank?

Jim

Try smacking the starter with a hammer. The solenoid could be stuck or not making a good connection internally.

He said he has no power to the yellow wire when key is switched to start, so banging it won't help.

You have to follow the path and figure out why/where the power stops.

It's been years since I did a seat belt interlock, I don't know if that's the issue, but a search on "how to disable the seat belt interlock/buzzer" would give you the instructions and eliminate this point.

I am sorry to tell you now that the seats slide off the rails: you don’t have to unbolt them. Did you disconnect the seat wire or did you find it that way?

Hello Jim

Thanks for the help, I was checking for voltage with the harnesses unplugged.
I jambed a wire into the socket pin on the harness and turned the key getting voltage on Pin 1 of the 14 pin connector but no voltage from pin 6 of the 12 pin outgoing connector.

I think applying power to pin 6 is a good idea would i connect Plus 12 to pin 6 and the neg terminal to ground?

Thanks

Yes they do slide forward but I was looking for a relay under the seat and needed the room.

I found it disconnected I will cut it off and jump the leads together.

Thanks

Hello Jim

I tested for voltage on T2 and T4 no voltage but I did notice that if I place the negative test probe on T2/T4 and touch the other end to ground I get a beep on my tester,

Could this indicate a short to ground on the relay board?

Also applied 12VDC from a seperate battery

Plus on T2 and T4
Neg on door keep

I heard a relay click no start

OK Had an Idea.
I disconnected the 14 pin harness jambed a wire into pin 1
crimped on a spade connector and stuck it onto the S terminal on the starter. When I turned the key the starter cranked!

However I noticed the fuel pump was not humming and I believe there is one relay that controls the fuelpump on this board. Is this the case?

There's a little spring stop on the one seat rail, press it and the seat slides forward right off the rails. Then you can you pull the seat right out of the car in seconds.

Hard to feel, first few times you have to get a flashlight and look down the front of the rail to see how it works.

In these pictures there is no seat belt interlock relay just the connections for the seat belt light. So it appears your car does not have an interlock relay,

And since your test with a wire from T1 to the starter make it crank you are getting enough power from the ignition with to the engine comp relay panel.

Jim

DISCLAIMER: When I wrote this I forgot the car was a V8 conversion, so my testing recommendations are following the stock wire configuration and there may have been changes made during the conversion that make the circuits different.

This was a good test.
It show the circuit from the battery to the ignition switch and back to the 14 pin connector works. Now you need to figure out why power stops there.

Since you disconnected the 14 pin connector for this test the fuel pump won't run.

As another quick test you could hook the starter back up as normal, yellow wire to the S terminal. Then take and unplug both the 12 pin and the 14 pin and make a jumper wire to go from T1 of the T14 connector to T6 of the T12 connector and then crank it from the key.

This would bypass the relay board. If this works the engine will crank over but it won't start since the T12 and T14 connector are disconnected.

Have you verified that the yellow wire is in position 6 on the T12 connector?

Have you checked over the relay board?
Take out out and turn it over, what does it look like?

Jim

Hello Jim

Took Our relay board
Removed black backing
All Traces looked good to me and ohmed out
Going to keep testing board
Any Suggestions??

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=225...e=3&theater

Anyone with any ides thanks

The connector main harness plug in to relay board, disconnect it, pop the back off the connector, look for the yellow wire and test it (turning key) at that point.

If it doesn't work next stop is ignition switch, then power to switch, fuse block, etc.

Since your earlier test (jumper from T1 to the starter) showed power from the ignition switch to the wire at T1 of the T14 connector, I would be looking at the rest of the circuit.
My next step might be to swap in a different relay panel but I have at least 3 of them that I know if.

Did you try jumping from T1 if the T14 connector to T6 of the T12 connectors?
Did the starter cranks?
You can also jump power from the battery directly to T6/T14 and see if it cranks.
If it does I would then plug in T12 and unplug T14 and jump from the battery to T1/T14 on the fuse panel, this would test power flow through the panel.

On the fuse/relay panel traces, the traces all run on the bottom and if fried you can see it but they all connect to the pins and connectors going to the relays and connectors on top of the board. It is the connections from the traces to the connectors that are problematic. Corrosion or a loose connection can show good with and ohm meter but still not be able to carry the load of the circuit. I don't know how many amps a starter solenoid draws bur it is significant.

Jim

I didn't see you already tried what I suggested and it's a relay board issue.

My /6 conversion I removed my relay board. To do this you can get a connector to DIY a harness or get custom engine harness from member Perry Kiehl.