mb911
Jun 14 2018, 09:42 AM
Here is the jack stand that is none fail..
Click to view attachment
TravisNeff
Jun 14 2018, 03:06 PM
Thanks for the vote of confidence Larmo!
OK, I need to get something done today and the new jack stands wont arrive until saturday sometime. Did a tire stack and then a couple sections of leftover wood countertop, and a couple of 2x4's to bridge the gap.
Then got to work and finished cutting out that damn engine mount on the drivers side. What a bitch! I have just a little bit of cleanup and wire wheel it clean and I can call it good enough.
mb911
Jun 14 2018, 04:03 PM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 14 2018, 01:06 PM)
Thanks for the vote of confidence Larmo!
OK, I need to get something done today and the new jack stands wont arrive until saturday sometime. Did a tire stack and then a couple sections of leftover wood countertop, and a couple of 2x4's to bridge the gap.
Then got to work and finished cutting out that damn engine mount on the drivers side. What a bitch! I have just a little bit of cleanup and wire wheel it clean and I can call it good enough.
That is for sure they are a PIA to remove..
mepstein
Jun 14 2018, 04:27 PM
QUOTE(mb911 @ Jun 14 2018, 06:03 PM)
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 14 2018, 01:06 PM)
Thanks for the vote of confidence Larmo!
OK, I need to get something done today and the new jack stands wont arrive until saturday sometime. Did a tire stack and then a couple sections of leftover wood countertop, and a couple of 2x4's to bridge the gap.
Then got to work and finished cutting out that damn engine mount on the drivers side. What a bitch! I have just a little bit of cleanup and wire wheel it clean and I can call it good enough.
That is for sure they are a PIA to remove..
You can tell this isn’t an east coast car. No (real) rust behind the mounts.
TravisNeff
Jun 14 2018, 04:31 PM
It was a Montana car that I got from Craig at camp914. Pretty happy with it so far.
The passenger side is a little worse off, I'll patch that because I am going in to cut into the bottom of the long there anyways.
Now, off to see about maybe getting the engine mount in.
TravisNeff
Jun 14 2018, 10:50 PM
I started grinding the paint away where I needed to weld in the mounts, and I cut part of the tailshifter flange off to give me more room to weld.
Prepped with UPOL Weld through primer. I then fitted up the mounts and traced around the welding area and ground back down to bare metal. I don't have good luck welding directly through the primer.
I then drilled some plug weld holes in the mounts. If I was to do it again, I would have only done the top two holes. Painted the backside with weld through primer, took off the primer on the plug weld holes and the edges of the mount.
TravisNeff
Jun 14 2018, 10:52 PM
All burned in. Not the prettiest, but it will work.
Tomorrow I will do the plug welds and grind the crown off the welds
mb911
Jun 15 2018, 02:36 PM
Speaking from a welding instructor stand point you are best off not grinding the welds off for this as it adds strength. The only reason to grind a weld is to hide the seam.. It degrades the strength of the weld joint.
TravisNeff
Jun 15 2018, 03:03 PM
Understood. I am in the middle and just cropped off the tops. I'll get back whatever I lost with the plug welds I think.
mb911
Jun 15 2018, 03:37 PM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 15 2018, 01:03 PM)
Understood. I am in the middle and just cropped off the tops. I'll get back whatever I lost with the plug welds I think.
The concern I have is that welds are a bit cold and the face reinforcement is very important along with the toe when accessing a weld even more so when cold. The firewall is only about 18 gauge there.
Plug welds will help a bunch.
TravisNeff
Jun 15 2018, 04:57 PM
Got it, thank you
mb911
Jun 15 2018, 05:34 PM
Btw I like the project. Looks like a great start.
Larmo63
Jun 15 2018, 05:43 PM
I see you took the /4 mounts out, I left mine in. I felt that they strengthen and square up the chassis at that critical point.
I know /6s don't have them, but I ran my oil lines through the driver's side one, just so it could make itself useful.
Ferg
Jun 15 2018, 09:17 PM
Looking Good!
Justinp71
Jun 15 2018, 10:20 PM
Cool! You're going to love that motor when its done! Carb'd flat sixes are amazing!
mb911
Jun 16 2018, 06:22 AM
When removing my 4 mounts I made 14 gauge over lay reinforcements.. I will see if I can dig up a picture.. oops just found one.
Click to view attachment
TravisNeff
Jun 16 2018, 11:11 AM
I thought about leaving the mounts in when I had them halfway out. I was getting frustrated that I might not be able to get them out without a huge leftover mess!
I like the overlays and am thinking about something similar. Ollie's 914-6 blog has something like that as well. I will decide once I get the longs all fixed up.
I took Ben's critique on my mounts and while I didn't really like to hear it, I needed to. And I am thankful to get the feedback. So I went out and did some practicing and fooling around with the controls. I am going to try to practice a little bit each day before I start doing any more weld in work. Also on plug & butt welds. It's easy to rush to get something done vs. trying the best you can and slow down a bit.
mb911
Jun 16 2018, 11:20 AM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 16 2018, 09:11 AM)
I thought about leaving the mounts in when I had them halfway out. I was getting frustrated that I might not be able to get them out without a huge leftover mess!
I like the overlays and am thinking about something similar. Ollie's 914-6 blog has something like that as well. I will decide once I get the longs all fixed up.
I took Ben's critique on my mounts and while I didn't really like to hear it, I needed to. And I am thankful to get the feedback. So I went out and did some practicing and fooling around with the controls. I am going to try to practice a little bit each day before I start doing any more weld in work. Also on plug & butt welds. It's easy to rush to get something done vs. trying the best you can and slow down a bit.
Looks very good.. Big improvement. Remember I have done it professionally for 25 years plus. It takes a while to be able to weld like this.
Click to view attachment
TravisNeff
Jun 16 2018, 11:23 AM
Beautiful! Obviously not done with a metal glue gun.
mb911
Jun 16 2018, 12:47 PM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 16 2018, 09:23 AM)
Beautiful! Obviously not done with a metal glue gun.
Your getting there.. Just all about practice.
TravisNeff
Jun 16 2018, 03:26 PM
More practice today. I won't keep boring you with all this, but I am happy about the improvement and wanted to share.
I found that doing the plug welds, I got the best penetration by starting the puddle in the middle and pull out to the side of the hole, then do the same in 3, 6, 9, 12 & follow up with filling the hole. Where I filled the hole in one shot, amazingly I had the least penetration.
For the welds on the top, I redialed in my auto-darkening helmet so I could see better as i go. I did about 2" at a time and still need more practice were I start a weld next to the old weld (hope that makes sense). Also need to focus on using all the real estate on the side of the flat stock.
This is new metal to new metal, so no blowing holes. I practiced on some old sheet metal I cut out of the car and that was much more tricky to not blow holes.
Click to view attachment
mb911
Jun 18 2018, 06:57 AM
Keep it up.. Now your up to the job. Carry on..
TravisNeff
Jun 18 2018, 03:59 PM
Let's pucker up and start to cut..
mb911
Jun 18 2018, 04:13 PM
Btdt.. Oh what fun.
bbrock
Jun 18 2018, 04:19 PM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 18 2018, 03:59 PM)
Let's pucker up and start to cut..
I know that feeling!
You are doing great work. Fun to watch.
TravisNeff
Jun 18 2018, 04:26 PM
A bunch more cotton and mouse trash fell out of the hollow section of the lower firewall. Those little bastards can get everywhere!
Now to figure out where to start patching. I have the huge urge to cut out the jack point area, but knowing my luck the car will collapse in half. I'll need to patch what I cut (and a few more cuts, like the inside corner of the passenger compartment), then move onto the next spot.
TravisNeff
Jun 18 2018, 04:51 PM
I think I will cut these 2 parts next. I will need to figure out how to bend the replacement long pieces to make that smooth, rounded corner. Anyone have any insight on this? I have a cheap-o 30 inch HF brake. I guess finding some conduit or something to help make the shape.
bbrock
Jun 18 2018, 05:00 PM
I have the same cheapo HF bending brake and bending the radius on those inner longs is actually pretty easy. I welded a piece of 3/8" solid round stock to a piece of plate that I bent the patch around. Matches the radius very well. You can see it about half way down on this post:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2516927
TravisNeff
Jun 18 2018, 06:27 PM
QUOTE(bbrock @ Jun 18 2018, 04:00 PM)
I have the same cheapo HF bending brake and bending the radius on those inner longs is actually pretty easy. I welded a piece of 3/8" solid round stock to a piece of plate that I bent the patch around. Matches the radius very well. You can see it about half way down on this post:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2516927Giddyup! That will save me a whole day trying a bunch of different things. Thank you Brent.
TravisNeff
Jun 18 2018, 06:38 PM
A little more cancer cuts
bbrock
Jun 18 2018, 07:31 PM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 18 2018, 06:27 PM)
QUOTE(bbrock @ Jun 18 2018, 04:00 PM)
I have the same cheapo HF bending brake and bending the radius on those inner longs is actually pretty easy. I welded a piece of 3/8" solid round stock to a piece of plate that I bent the patch around. Matches the radius very well. You can see it about half way down on this post:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2516927Giddyup! That will save me a whole day trying a bunch of different things. Thank you Brent.
Double check the radius of the rod stock. IIRC, the inner has the sharper radius which the 3/8" rod fit nicely. The outer was shallower and I think I used a 1/2" rod to fit the radius.
Also, the first time I tried to bend a long piece of 18 ga with the HF brake, I snapped the crappy welds on the gizmo. No biggie to reweld solidly but might be worth doing preemptively.
TravisNeff
Jun 18 2018, 07:51 PM
Alright, I will get both sizes and some flat bar stock to create the recesses.
Scrubbed things down a bit more with a smaller sized wire brush I found, then hosed it down with Metal Prep. That stuff has some STANK.
bbrock
Jun 18 2018, 08:16 PM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 18 2018, 07:51 PM)
Alright, I will get both sizes and some flat bar stock to create the recesses.
Scrubbed things down a bit more with a smaller sized wire brush I found, then hosed it down with Metal Prep. That stuff has some STANK.
Oh yeah, on the recesses, I made my forms as positives that I hammered what would be recesses on the panel over the bar stock which worked, but is the stupid way unless you really want to work on your upper arm strength. Check out Ben's (mb911) thread for a better way to do it which is to hammer the recesses DOWN into recesses in your forms.
TravisNeff
Jun 18 2018, 08:43 PM
Found it! Thanks for the tip and thanks to Ben to show us how it's done.
I only need to worry about the first 2 recesses (left)
mb911
Jun 19 2018, 05:06 AM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 18 2018, 06:43 PM)
Found it! Thanks for the tip and thanks to Ben to show us how it's done.
I only need to worry about the first 2 recesses (left)
I still have the "buck" to do it.. I may even have some samples.. What part do you need?
TravisNeff
Jun 19 2018, 10:08 AM
That would save me some serious time!
I would need from here to here with the flange that meets the outside cover on the bottom, and the radius curve on the inside that goes up about 1.5 inches in height.
TravisNeff
Jun 19 2018, 09:47 PM
Brent, thanks for the tip on the round bar. 1/2 and 3/8 round bar works out great.
I welded the bars onto some 1/4x1.5 flat stock for my cheap-0 HF brake. Then tested it out on some 20g.
bbrock
Jun 19 2018, 11:13 PM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 19 2018, 09:47 PM)
Brent, thanks for the tip on the round bar. 1/2 and 3/8 round bar works out great.
I welded the bars onto some 1/4x1.5 flat stock for my cheap-0 HF brake. Then tested it out on some 20g.
mb911
Jun 20 2018, 05:11 AM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 19 2018, 08:08 AM)
That would save me some serious time!
I would need from here to here with the flange that meets the outside cover on the bottom, and the radius curve on the inside that goes up about 1.5 inches in height.
I will look what I have.. I was also thinking I could just send you the buck and you could pass it on to the next person that needs it?
TravisNeff
Jun 20 2018, 08:50 AM
Either way would be fantastic!
TravisNeff
Jun 21 2018, 11:18 PM
Patched a small part of long and put a backer in place over the original backer. I will have to jigsaw puzzle that part back together. Will have some pics tomorrow. Welding upside sucks, I think I need to seriously bump up the wire speed, as soon as a good puddle started it wanted to drop out onto my chest LOL.
I cleaned up the floor section that I removed and the the back part of it was super pitted and bent like tin foil. I fabbed a patch up, which was a bit of a chore to make that corner. But it seemed to work out. Blow a bunch of holes trying to section in the flange with the firewall section.
TravisNeff
Jun 21 2018, 11:27 PM
Forgot a pic of the good looking side
TravisNeff
Jun 23 2018, 09:57 PM
I put in the backing panel against the inside long wall. I had to leave a gap so I could get the welding gun in there to weld to the side of the long. Then added in a filler piece with a flange so I could plug weld and run a stitch at the seam. Its a little ugly, but it will be covered up.
Went on to make the bottom of the long to cover the same area. Made 2 recess to replicate the original long. I made them about a 1/4 to wide, and thought hard about making another panel. Then I said screw it, it will all be covered by seam sealer anyways. It's in, I'll share pics tomorrow for that.
mb911
Jun 24 2018, 05:00 AM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 23 2018, 07:57 PM)
I put in the backing panel against the inside long wall. I had to leave a gap so I could get the welding gun in there to weld to the side of the long. Then added in a filler piece with a flange so I could plug weld and run a stitch at the seam. Its a little ugly, but it will be covered up.
Went on to make the bottom of the long to cover the same area. Made 2 recess to replicate the original long. I made them about a 1/4 to wide, and thought hard about making another panel. Then I said screw it, it will all be covered by seam sealer anyways. It's in, I'll share pics tomorrow for that.
Sorry I didn't get back to you on that.. Looks like you figured it out..
TravisNeff
Jun 24 2018, 10:08 AM
QUOTE(mb911 @ Jun 24 2018, 04:00 AM)
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 23 2018, 07:57 PM)
I put in the backing panel against the inside long wall. I had to leave a gap so I could get the welding gun in there to weld to the side of the long. Then added in a filler piece with a flange so I could plug weld and run a stitch at the seam. Its a little ugly, but it will be covered up.
Went on to make the bottom of the long to cover the same area. Made 2 recess to replicate the original long. I made them about a 1/4 to wide, and thought hard about making another panel. Then I said screw it, it will all be covered by seam sealer anyways. It's in, I'll share pics tomorrow for that.
Sorry I didn't get back to you on that.. Looks like you figured it out..
No problemo. It helped that your picture had the length written on them! Only took about 10 minutes from start to end.
TravisNeff
Jun 24 2018, 02:31 PM
Patch is in. Had to grind down some the welds to get the floor pan piece to fit flush.
TravisNeff
Jun 24 2018, 04:15 PM
Moving on..
This cut exercised my pelvic floor pretty good. Looks like I am just about into all good metal, may need to cut another inch higher. I haven't poked around in there, but I may need to cut out the divot for the -4 engine mount. Not sure if it is worth trying to replicate that divot part.
TravisNeff
Jun 24 2018, 07:34 PM
Looked a little further and the bump for the -4 mount indentation had to come out. You can see the backing piece is totally gone.
After cutting this out I was able to get the backer off and I think I can save this piece.
bbrock
Jun 24 2018, 08:40 PM
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Jun 24 2018, 07:34 PM)
Looked a little further and the bump for the -4 mount indentation had to come out. You can see the backing piece is totally gone.
After cutting this out I was able to get the backer off and I think I can save this piece.
Saving that piece is a bonus because it is a total PITA trying to replicate that divot, and the divot is needed for the mount to fit properly. Good work! Keep it coming.
TravisNeff
Jul 3 2018, 05:33 PM
I am officially sick of rust repair, LOL.
I made a patch for the inner long, outer long and created the 2nd layer backing for both. I was able to patch in the -4 cyl bump too.
A little more cleanup that needs to be done, still thinking whether or not I want to do an overlay as suggested before.
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