I've got a business idea. Your thoughts might sway me if I want to spend more time on it.

Disclaimer: I realize this is not a novel idea. There are many like it, variations of it, etc. I am just thinking that the timing is right to offer something different and cheaper.

The Florida real estate market is booming... bonkers is more like it.

You have several choices...

1. Realtor - safe but expensive
2. Assist to sell or BuyOwner services - cheaper and relatively safe
3. For Sale by owner - riskier - but lest cheaper for the seller and buyer.

Using a realtor is always a safe bet, because they do most of the critical and legal work for you, and bring clients to you.

However, I sold my last two houses by myself.

For the most recent one, I put a sign up, created a website with some domains I own, created some flyers and got about 3-4 inquiries per day... up to 20 on weekends. Sold the house (pre-boom) in less than a month and saved thousands.

I am thinking of a very simple business where you offer people that want to sell their own homes the following...

1. Custom For Sale sign (standardized design)
2. Customized website with description and photos
3. Online printable flyers that they can put in an info tube in front of their house
4. Online (secure) e-mail inquiry form from potential buyers
5. Lists of vendors in the area to assist with the rest of the process (i.e., home inspectors, title agents, repair people).
6. All of the forms they need online to help with the deal (sales contracts, inspection lists, etc.)

How it works:

Make it simple: The seller could go online and fill out a questionnaire about their home (used to generate the website content), upload up to 10 digital photos, pay with a credit card securely, and have their custom home website up in less than 24 hours.

Make it reasonable: $100 for first month which inlcudes the setup fee and 2 yard signs... each additional month is $35 or they could buy a 3-month package for $150.00

Easy for the buyers: The buyer would drive by the home, see the For Sale By Owner sign, with the web address and property ID # on it. For example:


FOR SALE
BY OWNER

View online at:
buymyhome4sale.com

Property ID# 1234


The interested buyer goes home, goes to the website, enters the property ID# and can find out all about the house, see photos of it, ask questions, make an offer, etc.


Pitfalls

1. The most difficult part would be the web interface to collect and generate the websites. Once it was developed it would be almost automatic.

2. The next most difficult part is the signs. They could be made in bulk (sans the property ID #). Once it's generated, all you do is add the ID #.The sellers could pick up from the main office or have delivered to their home for... say $20.00

3. Could be difficult to actually convince people to do it. (i.e., may take a lot of effort at the beginning).

4. Obvious legalities (you have to have a pretty good disclaimer obsolving you of all of the potential legalities for deals gone bad, contract issues, etc.)

5. Pissed off realtors


Additional revenue generating ideas:

You could generate revenue by having advertisers of services available to buyers and sellers (title agents, home inspectors, lenders, etc.) Heck if you had 25 advertisers paying $50 to $100 per month, that's pretty decent

I could offer additional revenue-generating services - such as whole home photography for $100, and IPIX 3D walk-through for $X



Finally... how to get customers...

Well, driving around beighborhoods to start. The newspaper is another idea.

Heck, I even envision Realtors using it as a cheap way to list their own homes!



Okay... so you get the idea... Give me some more ideas, some pitfalls, etc.

we've been having tons of homes go up for sale in our area, most are being sold by a realtor in just a few days to a few weeks.....the few homes being sold by "help-you-sale" or "by owner" are on the market for much longer time periods....some of it is due to the seller only wanting to give X-amount to the the buyers realtor which slows things down somewhat....

our last home sale generated about $50K for the realtors to split..damn, that money would have done wonders to my savings account

but, even after "giving" that money away, I was better off having a licecsend realtor due to some complications with the house and how the city labled it (2 unit rental, city had it listed as single family, our realtor went thru the leg work to prove to them otherwise, made it worth more as an investment property)

Same idea was started up here by a guy I used to work with (he's retired now) had a lot of legal hassels from the realtor boards when he first started (unlicenced realtor, ect) their web site is http://www.comfree.ca/

That's one of the issues I see... all of the crap that can happen. Again, though... this isn't a Seller's assist service... merely a sign and web marketing service.

The extra stuff - like recommended vendors, real estate forms, is just for their benefit, etc. We can tell them what they need to do, and who can help them, but they are on their own.

The local Assist-to-Sell places still end up charging $2K to $4K for their stuff and really don't do much more than I would be offering.

And I have a friend who is interested in this too... and he is a licensed realtor.

Dunno...

Keep throwing ideas out.

Change of Subject: I saw a store today where you drop off your junk and they sell it on e-bay. (and take a cut of course).

They photograph it, value it, list it, collect money for you and ship it!

Cool idea!

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 13 2005, 06:59 PM)

we've been having tons of homes go up for sale in our area, most are being sold by a realtor in just a few days to a few weeks.....the few homes being sold by "help-you-sale" or "by owner" are on the market for much longer time periods....some of it is due to the seller only wanting to give X-amount to the the buyers realtor which slows things down somewhat....

But a 12% savings is still worth the extra weeks, I would think.

QUOTE (Headrage @ Jun 13 2005, 07:11 PM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 13 2005, 06:59 PM) we've been having tons of homes go up for sale in our area, most are being sold by a realtor in just a few days to a few weeks.....the few homes being sold by "help-you-sale" or "by owner" are on the market for much longer time periods....some of it is due to the seller only wanting to give X-amount to the the buyers realtor which slows things down somewhat.... But a 12% savings is still worth the extra weeks, I would think.

most seem to be "months".......

I guess for the experianced buyer and seller it would work, as a newbie, some people will be hesitant....

I don;t think it's a bad idea.........

I have a few thoughts on this. I am a Realtor here in Phoenix. Our market(Maricopa County) is the fastest growing and appreciating market in the country right now. That being said, it has created a market that is ripe for "For Sale by Owners"(FSBO's) I think if you are going to try to be a FSBO, now is the time to do it. Your idea is a good one in my opinion. The people that would be potential FSBO's would love your idea.

As far as your pitfalls, here are my thoughts:

1 - I have no idea about internet/interface junk, so you are on your own.

2 - Signs are dirt cheap. They even make plastic ones now that look the same as the metal. I say go that route. There should be several places in your area that all the agents buy from. Just go there. There will be a one time set up fee and then so much per sign after that. I think my metal ones are only $12-15 each.

3 - Might be difficult to convince people. Keep in mind, you are marketing to a group of do-it-yourselfer's. Maybe take the "lets work together to screw the Realtors" approach.

4 - Get a copy of the contract that Realtors use in your state. It is chock full of "We aren't responsible for anything!" jargon. Just clarify that you are NOT representing sellers and/or buyers. You just create an forum for them to advertise. Buyers and sellers should verify all information.

5 - Who cares if you piss off Realtors(keep in mind, I am one) There is plenty of business to go around. If your little venture cuts into their business, they aren't worth a shit any how.

There will always be a market for do-it-yourself and more recently, discount broker services. It is no different than any other industry. There is do-it-yourself all they way up to full-service.

Some other thoughts, you can get training on doing the virtual walk-thru's yourself. I think they even provide the equipment in some cases. Last I heard, the photographers made about $60 a shoot. No use throwing away $60 if you can keep in in-house.

As far as Realtors using your service, not sure how that would fly. You might be able to take the angle that they could use it as a way to get clients(buyers) as opposed to a way to sell the house. The chances of your system selling the house before the MLS(Multiple Listing Service) is slim to none. However, if a Realtor advertises their listings there, they might get buyers calling them that don't already have an agent. That is really what Realtors want. They want clients. Selling homes is much easier than actually getting clients(Don't tell other Realtors I said that. They might kick me out of their club!)

Finally, you could even add a 1-800 option to your service. They could pay extra to have a 1-800 number assigned to their house. There is a huge advantage to that. That way they will know who call on their house versus wondering if the kids down the street took all the fliers. I can explain that more if you are interested.

Thats my .02 for now.

Carl,

My concerns looking at it from the Mortgage side is who would determine the asking price/true market value? most people that want to sell their homes may not have a true sense of values out there. That is the responsiblity of the Real Estate Agent to educate the sellers of reasonable selling prices. When its time to order the appraisal, there are times when we rely on the listing agents to supply "comparable" sales to the Appraisors. If sellers are not getting "good" information regarding pricing, the deal could go sour very quick. Hopefully the Listing Agents have done their homework when it come to market value.

However, that is the risk you run when you don't want to use those lying, cheating Realtors.

Sincerely,

Michael Wills
Realtor Associate
HomeSmart Real Estate

I was able to determine the sales price of my home in minutes. I walked down the street and picked up the flyer and info sheets on the six homes for sale in my neighborhood.

You can also look up the tax records online here and find your own home. They offer a button for "Find Similar Sales in Subdivision" and it will pull up all the homes that have sold in the past 2 years, including square footage, year built, bedrooms, baths, square footage, etc. Everything you need for a somewhat accuracte comparison..

We had 2 Realtors approach me last year and did complimentary "comp evaluations" for me. Both of them were different and both were under what I sold my house for. Not saying that realtors and appraisers are incompetant, but that homes often sell for what a buyer is willing to spend.

Good ideas, guys... keep the good and bad flowing.

I'm not saying I am going to do this... I jst wanna see if there is enough potential to pursue it.

It always amazes me how one person can make a fortune in a business where others just squeeze out a living. It all comes down to a motivated, creative person that can push it to success. I think your realty idea could be a good one but $150 is way too cheap for a product that will help the owners save tens of thousands.
My customers only started realizing the quality I was giving them after I raised my prices and refused to work cheap.

QUOTE (drew365 @ Jun 13 2005, 07:22 PM)

It always amazes me how one person can make a fortune in a business where others just squeeze out a living. It all comes down to a motivated, creative person that can push it to success.

That says it all. I see Realtors in the Phoenix area that are just dying on the vine. They are barley getting by in the hottest market inthe country??? WTF?

In a quickly changing market similar to what we are seeing here, averaging 30% increase in values in one year, sometimes the tax rolls are not current, some counties are very slow in updating information, In addition, the "house down the street that sold for $?" probably won't reflect any consessions that the seller may have given, such as seller paid closing costs, a flooring allowance, etc. It still goes back to someone advising the seller, the seller can ask anything for a house, the buyer can pay anything for a home, but the lender will require a certified appraisal with supported comps. I think that is an important role for Real Estate Agents. Would you be willing to put up a non-refundable $350.00 plus check for an appraisal on a property that was a FSBO without a Real Estate Agents advice or true value?
Please don't take this as poo pooing an idea, just looking at all the angles.

QUOTE

drew365   Posted on Jun 13 2005, 08:22 PM It always amazes me how one person can make a fortune in a business where others just squeeze out a living. It all comes down to a motivated, creative person that can push it to success. I think your realty idea could be a good one but $150 is way too cheap for a product that will help the owners save tens of thousands. My customers only started realizing the quality I was giving them after I raised my prices and refused to work cheap

Very Good Point

QUOTE (Qarl @ Jun 13 2005, 07:13 PM)

We had 2 Realtors approach me last year and did complimentary "comp evaluations" for me. Both of them were different and both were under what I sold my house for. Not saying that realtors and appraisers are incompetant, but that homes often sell for what a buyer is willing to spend.

I'm surprised that the Realtors were low. Usually they go the opposite direction. Usually they give you a really high price hoping to get your business. The ol' "I could sell this home for $20,000 more than your neighbors house just sold for! Now hire me!"

The shittiest part of being a Realtor is being associated with being a Realtor. We're not ALL bad...I promise.

The appraisers are always coming in low. They are basing their opinions on history in a market that is going up at historical rates. Sales from 2 months ago are obsolete in our market. I don't blame them. They are just covering themselves. In my last four transactions we have required the buyers to waive the clause that states the house must appraise at the sales price.

Back on topic....I still like your idea. There is a niche for it.

Please don't take any of my posts as bashing on Realtors in general. But I'm not an idiot and I know the stigma that is attached to us. I agree with everything that Lou is saying. I have had friends that have tried to be a FSBO. They called me every friggin day asking about what happens next. What if they do this or that? Can they ask for this? It never ended. In the end, they netted less than if they would have just hired me. In addition, it took them longer to sell and it was a major PIA for them. Many will disagree, but good agents are worth every penny. You'll pocket more money and sell it more quickly. Even if you make the same money, you sell it more quickly and you have to do a LOT less work.

QUOTE

MW 914   Posted on Jun 13 2005, 08:35 PM QUOTE (Qarl @ Jun 13 2005, 07:13 PM) We had 2 Realtors approach me last year and did complimentary "comp evaluations" for me. Both of them were different and both were under what I sold my house for. Not saying that realtors and appraisers are incompetant, but that homes often sell for what a buyer is willing to spend. I'm surprised that the Realtors were low. Usually they go the opposite direction. Usually they give you a really high price hoping to get your business. The ol' "I could sell this home for $20,000 more than your neighbors house just sold for! Now hire me!" The shittiest part of being a Realtor is being associated with being a Realtor. We're not ALL bad...I promise. biggrin.gif The appraisers are always coming in low. They are basing their opinions on history in a market that is going up at historical rates. Sales from 2 months ago are obsolete in our market. I don't blame them. They are just covering themselves. In my last four transactions we have required the buyers to waive the clause that states the house must appraise at the sales price. Back on topic....I still like your idea. There is a niche for it.

The appraisers get caught in the middle, if they come up with a value that they really can't substaniate (sp)? they can get black listed by the investor. I don't know of any appraisors that won't use real comps supplied to them by the agents, etc. They want the business too. Waiving the value clauses are becoming pretty common now.

QUOTE

MW 914   Posted on Jun 13 2005, 08:42 PM Please don't take any of my posts as bashing on Realtors in general. But I'm not an idiot and I know the stigma that is attached to us. I agree with everything that Lou is saying. I have had friends that have tried to be a FSBO. They called me every friggin day asking about what happens next. What if they do this or that? Can they ask for this? It never ended. In the end, they netted less than if they would have just hired me. In addition, it took them longer to sell and it was a major PIA for them. Many will disagree, but good agents are worth every penny. You'll pocket more money and sell it more quickly. Even if you make the same money, you sell it more quickly and you have to do a LOT less work. beerchug.gif

Yea, and don't forget the liabilty

QUOTE (Lou W @ Jun 13 2005, 07:42 PM)

The appraisers get caught in the middle, if they come up with a value that they really can't substaniate (sp)? they can get black listed by the investor. I don't know of any appraisors that won't use real comps supplied to them by the agents, etc. They want the business too. Waiving the value clauses are becoming pretty common now.

They are totally in the middle. Some seem to have a better grip on the environment that we in, however.

Again... everyone is getting hung up on the idea that I am "assisting" them in selling their home.

I'm not.

I am just helping to market their home via a yard sign and a website (and perpahs a messaging service (good idea).

1. They the seller will determine the market value of their house. The website can give them some pointers on how to get a reasonable idea of an asking price. If they set the price too high, or too low... their fault. (covered in whatever disclaimer I would end up creating).

2. They will be responsible for dealing with any buyer's agents.

3. If the sell on their own, without a realtor or buyer's agent, they will be responsible for setting up a closing. Of course, the website will offer suggested title agents, home inspectors, surveyors, etc. (all vendors that have paid to be there of course... generating revenue for ME! ).

4. If they get stuck on legal formalities, there will be a section of real estate attorneys they can call and retain if necessary.

They are responsible for everything.

I only provide the sign, website, easy-to-print info flyer, and some of the tools they can opt to use to finish the transaction.

One important thing I learned in a previous venture is that if you try to displace or compete with existing, long-entrenched "intermediaries" (i.e., middlemen), they will certainly not ignore you and most likely will do anything possible to sandbag your "alternative" concepts, despite any new efficiencies or savings they may offer to the customer.

What we found -- still with limited success -- is that if you "work with" the entrenched brokers and agents, and help them make a living too, then they suddenly become your best friends and everybody can be happy.

In your context, maybe this means you can find some licensed realtors who are willing and (contractually) able to do deals at sub-market commission rates, passing significant savings along to the buyer and seller but still also providing professional expertise to the transaction and assuring all parties including the bankers and insurers that everything is in good hands.

Basically your idea is already in use. Look at forsalebyowner.com It is exactly what you are trying to do. You can even buy a mls listing for about $150 or so. The problem is buyers are kind of afraid of FSBO's and the houses usually sit for a long time and become "stale". I have bought and sold a lot of houses in the Seattle area which is seeing 20% appreciation/yr. I tried unsucessfully with a fsbo service and will not use them again. Using a realtor is just the cost of doing business. Eddy

QUOTE (smooth_eddy @ Jun 13 2005, 08:04 PM)

Using a realtor is just the cost of doing business. Eddy

Three cheers for Eddy!!!

QUOTE (Qarl @ Jun 13 2005, 08:13 PM)

I walked down the street and picked up the flyer and info sheets on the six homes for sale in my neighborhood.

Six homes on my street for sale would bring up really big RED flags,,,, JMHO

The housing market is so hot here in certain parts of the city, there have actually been auctions for certain properties. Several that have been sold thru the sealed offer system have reached 20% above the listing price.

Back on topic....if you read the comfree site they offer signage, and listing help (how to make you property look better, where to determing its market place, ect) and a list of lawyers who will fill out the paperwork.

QUOTE

Headrage   Posted on Jun 13 2005, 09:11 PM QUOTE (Qarl @ Jun 13 2005, 08:13 PM) I walked down the street and picked up the flyer and info sheets on the six homes for sale in my neighborhood. Six homes on my street for sale would bring up really big RED flags,,,, JMHO cool.gif

It wouldn't have anything to do with the teener on jackstands in the driveway? would it?

Do a google, for sale by owner is poping up everywhere.

http://www.free-for-sale-by-owner.com/

http://search.sympatico.msn.ca/results.asp...y+owner+toronto

QUOTE

Six homes on my street for sale would bring up really big RED flags,,,, JMHO

Not necessarily true. The neighborhood I sold the house was built only five years ago. My mini-subdivision had about 90 homes in it. The homes that were for sale at the time were from a. people relocating b. people wanting to upgrade to a bigger home because this was their starter home c. people wanting to downgrade to a smaller home because their kids had gone to college d. people wanting to turn a profit because the hHomes had appreciated about 30%-40% in 5 years.

Having 6 to 12 homes for sale in any neighborhood of 50-100 homes in Florida right now is not a bad sign at all. It's very common. Problem is right now, houses are being gobbled up faster than they can go for sale. (which is another reason my idea is not that great).

Case in point, a new community in Volusia County (near Central Florida) announced that they were having a pre-sale event. 500 homesites were offered with home prices averaging $600K each. The pre-sale event opened at 8:00 am on a Saturday. All 500 lots were sold by 9:30 am. No sh!t.

QUOTE

Basically your idea is already in use.

Ugh! I never said my idea was unique. Read my first post. Again... this isnt' an assist to sell business... it's a friggin advertising business. I was simply trying to see if there is a market for people that want to sell their house on their own (which a good percentage that are), to have a low cost way to get people to view their home, get info for their home, ask questions, etc. using the internet, without having to pay thousands of dollars to an assist-to-sell place or a realtor.

The two services we have in town right now BuyOwner and Assist-to-sell still end up charging thousands of dollars for assisting to sell the house (i.e., hooking you up with a closing agent, inspector, etc.).

And I am not saying there is anything wrong with Realtors. In fact, my idea was to be very pro-Realtor and Realtor friendly and try and encorage people to use a Realtor or at least a real estate attorney. If they didn't then, they could get exposure with the website and sign... and have tools and services available to them (like real estate attorneys, title agencies, etc.) Heck, there could even be Realtors on board who could get involved and help them with the closing, if they opted to go that route.


Keep in mind that this is all just an idea... just for fun...

The reasons I have thought about it recently are the following...

1. When I sold my last home, I utilized a website, flyer, sign that I developed. I received quite a few compliments (even from Realtors) on the design of my site, and my flyer. One Realtor even mentioned that I should offer a similar service to other FSBO owners
2. Real estate market is booming


Reason it is not a good idea to do this...

1. Houses are selling too fast
2. I don't have enough time
3. See #2

Put all the info on a DVD for $50.00 and sell a million of them,


www.sell-it-yourself.blah, blah, blah...

Realtors-Gone-Wild... $9.99 and sell tens of millions of them.

Gotta find some hot Realtor chicks that will show me their boobies and allow me to film them!

QUOTE (Lou W @ Jun 14 2005, 12:20 AM)

QUOTE Headrage   Posted on Jun 13 2005, 09:11 PM QUOTE (Qarl @ Jun 13 2005, 08:13 PM) I walked down the street and picked up the flyer and info sheets on the six homes for sale in my neighborhood. Six homes on my street for sale would bring up really big RED flags,,,, JMHO cool.gif It wouldn't have anything to do with the teener on jackstands in the driveway? would it?

The Realtor Gone Wild dvd sounds like the business venture to invest in. Can I be the camera man....

QUOTE (MW 914 @ Jun 13 2005, 09:10 PM)

QUOTE (smooth_eddy @ Jun 13 2005, 08:04 PM) Using a realtor is just the cost of doing business.  Eddy Three cheers for Eddy!!!

My only problem with the way the real estate business works is that it's based on percentage rather than time and effort put in.

In California, paying 6% to sell your home is getting to be an absurd amount of money. If it cost $20K to sell an average house in the SF Bay a few years ago, it now costs $35K to sell the same house today.

I don't know about the rest of you but it takes me quite a long time to earn $35K whereas I'm sure it doesn't take more than a hundred hours to sell a house (probably more like 20-30 hours in the current market). I think the current situation where a real estate agent only needs to make 2 or 3 sales a year to make a living creates a situation where you have lots of people going after the same pie rather than a smaller number of professionals.

I think it would be better if real estate was a highly skilled and regulated profession, like the legal profession.

As it is, lots of people now a days are negotiating for lower than the "standard" 6% commission.

There are not enough homes to sell for the thousands and thousands of licensed Realtors in Central Florida. Too much competition.

And Realtors ARE licensed and highly regulated professionals.

Let's say a house sells for $300K here and 6% commission is involved. Usually half goes to the Seller's agent and half to the Buyer's agent (if there are two realtors involved from two different companies). So $18K is split between the two entities.

Now, each realtor works for a Real Estate company (most of the time) like Coldwell Bankers or Remax. The company takes a good chunk of that. So let's assume the Realtor and his company split the commission (50/50). So out of your $300K home sale, the Realtor makes $4500.00. I think they actually make a lower percentage... but you get the point.

Now they have to sell 10 homes like that per year to make an okay living. 20 homes per year and they are making a great living.

Now, they don't sell every home they list... and how much time to Realtors spend with browsers, tire kickers... how much time do they spend just trying to get homes to list.

So it's more than 20-30 hours to sell a home.

And they often work most weekends and holidays.

You get the point.