Well as some may know, my 2.3 massively spun the rear main bearing. Even though I have not opened the case, the debris in the oil tell me that the crank and likely the case is gone.

I think I can reuse the heads and pistons and cylinders. But I am assuming all of the other internals are toast. Pulled the oil pump and filter and there was no visible metal in these but there had to be parts of that bearing coming off for a while before it failed.

Any thoughts on trying to reuse crank, cam, and case? Or should I just start building from another case?

This engine had 98 mm P/Cs on it. I thought I recalled that the largest P/Cs that could be fitted were 96mm without opening the case.

Is this the brand new engine you just finished? Damn.

Yep!

Funny I have a 1.7 sitting on the floor of unknow quality. Almost put it in but just could not bear the lack of power.

Start breaking it down. The only way you know what is usable is to take a look.

Got it down to taking off the heads and just got so depressed I quit! Something about chunks of metal in the oil kind of makes you not want to look.

Will have to wait until after Okteenerfest.

But considering how much it chewed into the trans case it cant be good on the inside of the engine case.
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It sucks. Maybe Jake can help you figure out what went wrong.

Tear it down. You will never know what can be salvaged until you do.

Having had to tear down an engine with under 50 miles on it before, I know the pain. But there was something cathartic about it for me (in my case I caught my rookie error before the engine scattered - but I did not know that before I tore everything down. I had built the engine with WAY too much bearing clearance and the engine simply did not make pressure one day).

Zach

Yup, that's the sort of thing that you won't know until you tear it all apart and start measuring things.

--DD

Swap in the 1.7 and tear down the 2.4!


on the bad luck though..

If the oil got debris through it the cam could be bad but you probably can polish the crank or regrind it to one size smaller bearings. Case might be bad depending on how the rod bearing spun.

Hi Mike!

Sorry to hear the horrible news!

Interesting that you still have that 1.7

We’re going to be putting your 2.0 engine in this week! I’ll let you know how it goes! Sure hope to have bettter luck with that one than you just had with what you replaced it with!

Good luck!

M.i.M.

Hope you have better luck. I tried to give you a quality engine as I did not cut corner. But sometimes shit happens.

Just curious what brand of bearings did you use?

Good to know if it turns out it was manufacture or Lot QA issue
Sorry to hear. Im also tuned in to your build as I have my own big bore /4 in the wings.

That is a bummer man...

Hope there is a clear reason what happened.

John

Ok so now the process of thinking about new parts starts.

Current thoughts are to keep Microsquirt and go back with the 78mm crank and 98mm P/Cs. Have ported heads with 911 swivel foot valve adjusters, 44 mm intake valves, 36 mm exhaust valves, dual springs, and chromoly retainers.

First thought cam shaft. Currently have the Eagle 2202 Street Power Cam - 278° Duration and 410" lift with 1.3:1 Rocker Arms. Reading the information for this cam it is really for carb use. But it did quite well with the Microsquirt.

Looking through the various Web cam grinds I came across Hydraulic Camshaft, 91 Grind, (265 Duration, .430" Lift). Requires Programmable Injection and of course hydraulic lifters. Kind of like the thought of not having to adjust the valves but leery of hydraulic lifters in a Type 4. Also this is not far off the stock cam (268° Duration 378" lift) so with the other components in mind I would be potentially missing out on some HP.

More likely options are the 86a - 290 Duration, .435" Lift and the 494 - 280 Duration, .465" Lift.

Just looking for thoughts and suggestions.

“Just looking for thoughts and suggestions”

Yes! Yes! If only it could be obtained for $5K.

Having hydraulic lifters doesn't equate to not having to adjust the valves, just not nearly as often. I have them and wish I didn't. If my car sits for more than a few days it can take a while for them to fill with oil and are stupid noisy until they do. I've heard it said that you can't get the engine rpms up as high with hydraulic lifters, but I haven't experienced that. I just hate the noise they make until they pump up.
Just my $.02

Usually double but there are some deals. Especially when someone is going bigger and wants to get rid of their smaller 6 quickly. It's not a cheap conversion but a good running 6 can be a 100-200K mile engine that hold its value in the market.

OK As you may have seen a broken crank. How this did not destroy everything in the engine including the valves I will never understand.

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But placed order today with Type 4 Store for a rebuild kit. Going with 102 mm Nickies, JE Pistons with 22 mm pins, 78 mm crank, H-Beam 5.325 rods, close version of the 86b Webcam, and lots of other good Type 4 bits and parts.

Now as the saying goes "some assembly required!"

Oh wow!
Is that a big casting flaw or an oil passage?

Any indication of what casued the bearing to spin?

Zach

I think there was some type of flaw in the crank. In the end the bearing did not spin but obviously suffered a complete loss of oil flow resulting in the surface being worn down extremely quickly.

Oh man! That just sucks. I am sorry you had that happen. I look forward to seeing the new engine build. Best wishes.

when I wanted to build a big four all the info I gathered was most cranks were from China and I was no longer interested in the build wish there were more options with cranks.... instead I went the Subie route But its taking forever.

I have been working on my Bus and not checking in here and I skipped Okteenerfest this year. Just saw your problem. WOW.

Good luck with it.

After all the blood, sweat and tears this happens! Tough break but I'm sure you'll stay after it till you get it right.

That sucks about your crank!

Nice set of new parts from the Type IV store though.

John

I know how you feel. I only got about 1000 miles out of my engine. On the bright side it sure is fun when you get all done paying the bills and you’re driving it

Yours was a massive do over so soon! I got a lot more than that out of it. Still in a bit of sticker shock from the purchase but I am looking forward to the drive.

Gotta give you guys credit for sticking with
Type 4 s after these failures .

Because big/4 kinda have a bad reputation

Might be time to start pumping some water

But im a little confused about the crankshaft .

Did you use something other then a stock type 4 crank
To beging with .

Yes the crank was a 78.5mm after market crank. All of them are Chineseum.

Big 4s are a difficult issue to solve. But even when not in perfect tune, my last one put out over 114 HP to the wheels. I am sure that value went up as I refined the tune but it was loads of fun to drive. Going with The Type 4 Stores kit and using Nickies should take care of a number of issues and eliminate the need to pump any water.

Only 114? That has to be a typo. I would have expected a LOT more then that at the wheels. My car is putting 127 at the wheels on a much smaller engine.

Zach

Not a typo. Was the first tune and did not push it very hard and had some coil issues. Never made it back to see the change.

Here's who I used which is not China built: http://dprmachine.com/products/crankshafts-type-iv/

I bought a crank from aircooled.net and it was so far out of balance that Jake couldn't do anything with it. He suggested DPR and that crank has been in my 2270 for the past 18 years.

Looks like a forged crank, but don't know if they had to weld up the rod journals to get to the increased stroke. If welded and not properly heat treated, much lower yield strength

It’s a good day when you come home to a huge shipment from the Type 4 Store! Special thanks to Charles and Nicole for dealing with all the questions and getting me the parts I needed.

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Looks a bit early for Christmas deliveries, but good for you!

When you dyno tune your new build you need to share that chart. I simply can't believe that your prior engine was not pushing 200 at the wheels. With better heads and exhaust, I expect the new engine will be 200+ at the wheels.

Zach

A 3.6 is around 210-220hp at the wheels.

Do you know where your new 78mm crank from the Type IV Store is made?

If China, did it receive the same treatment that Jake Raby is talking about in the post referred below since he doesn't own the store anymore?

Is there something special about the current Type IV Store crank vs the ones sold by Aircooled.net or EMW, or are they from the same source?

post from 2016:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2206685

I am not sure what they do for the crank. But I will ask. But regardless of what they have or have not done, anytime you do a build you still have to check to make sure all parts meet specifications. I spent a couple of hours doing my initial check of the parts received. When I take them to the machine shop to be balanced I will have them check again. Some adjustments may be necessary, but I don't think there will be major issues.

So Nickies? all new P's and C's? still doing the 2.7?

Technically 2.5. Essentially everything but the case is new. Yes Nickies. True works of art. With JE forged pistons, H-beam rods, new crank, cam, head bolts, and all the other goodies.

Still deciding on the new heads.

Got to get the case to the shop for line bore and opening up for the 102's.

Was the case decked on the first go round?

No but I have checked it during tear down and it is very true. But it will be done anyway during the line bore and opening up for the bigger jugs.

Good plan.

Hey Mike , congrats on the big step , what clutch & PP did you plan on using , may I
suggest you step up the the pressure plate holding strength maybe to stage 2 KEP
(kennedy engineering products) , hate to see you put it together & find the clutch is not
strong enough (ask me how I know/ I run a custom stage 2 1/2 & special disc) , what flywheel do run ,
if you plan on a lightened one , don't go to lite, once again congrats