Does anyone have Jakes write up on valve train geometry?

just a observation and comment from the peanut gallery/cheap seats but--- What you need to do is go with Jakes' 2270 build, and all the parts and componenets from them and LN, with Len's heads - as the other member here did a few years back and it was well documented by Jake , including the dyno testing of it with FI, it was pulling 200hp- tried and true , correct matching components. I hate to say it this way but you know this is true- with as much time and $$ as you have spent on several builds and this last one blowing up you would have been way ahead if you just had him build this for you, and quit messing around with bigger displacement type 4 motors that even at 2.5 will not get you more hp or run as cool as this motor will built by Jake- cant remember the recent thread that was brought back up about the 2270 built and dyno'd by them and compared the fi with carbs on same motor etc etc.

Point is in the long run, you will be better off. don't go try and build another 2.4 or 2.5 etc, either go get a /6 or have Jake build you the 2270 with his combo for FI that gets the 190+hp.

Just my 2cents.

Phil

IIRC that article was on Jake's site, not 914 World. I used to have a print out of it. I don't know that it exists any more, but I could be wrong about that (in fact I hope that I am).

Its been long enough that I don't even rememebr the URL for Jake's forums.

I bet Len Hoffman has it somewhere, since he took over the type 4 store.

Zach

All very good advice and very true. But there is more to it for me than just having a finished product handed to you. I built many cars and engines with my dad and had a great time doing it. So this is a bit of reliving those times and getting back to some of those memories. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have one of Jakes engines.

While there is no way to say this without coming across as arrogant but if just having Jakes engine was the most important thing to me I would place the order tomorrow and not even think about it.

Buying Jakes engine or doing a six conversion is the completely rationale approach. But doing irrational things like supercharging a 914 and trying to get the most out of a 4 cylinder are appealing to me.

My lack of sanity runs deep. But it keeps me thinking and like the old saying goes: "I know the voices inside my head are not real but damn they come up with some really good ideas!" Occasionally not so good but that's how it goes.

Here you go:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...229571&st=0

well seldom do any of us do whtat would be considered the most logical thing, and I can for sure appreciate the desire to build it yourself. and you have some experience in doing this.(2270) I would probably end up doing my own motor as well when it needs it, but I don't have the knowledge(2270) and understanding that you and some other members here have regarding the different combos of displacement, cam, etc etc. I read those threads with awe and wonder! I would at least take the recommended combo that they have that is tried and true and go with it. I know you started this thread for that reason , to get info from others so I will sit back(2270) and listen while others give info and advice - very interested to see what you put together!! I am cheering for you go get this done and on the road before next Okteenerfest!
(2270) - (subliminal messages embedded on purpose)

Sent it to your email Mike.

I ran a search on here for Jakes valve train geometry and found it the 2nd page. I'm surprised it was never saved in the classics.

Yes, it should be. Admin?

I am not completely going rouge here. For the most part I have purchased the 2563 kit from the type 4 Store https://type4store.com/engine-kits/porsche-...orsche-kit.html. These kits are based on tried and true components developed over the years. So that should earn a few sanity points.

The Type 4 Store was back ordered on the RS+ heads so I am considering using my current heads or the LE-200 heads.

I like building stuff too. Yeah, they have a way of kinda blowing up in my face, but how you gonna learn? I admire the effort and envy the parts. Wish the motor I built didn’t leak oil.

For your adjustable rod, if you can find or make one using the same pushrod tips you will be using in the motor, your life will be way easier.

Zach

Sell your heads to Greg, and get the LE 200s.
And you had better place your order for a 1 3/4" Tangerine Header now if you want that engine to breathe properly next spring.

Can I use with my existing Evo Muffler?

Really close to doing that. Going to send Greg some photos tonight.

The EVO IV doesn't mate up to a Tangerine Header.

There he goes getting more of my money!

I can certainly say that I have gotten what I paid for on every purchase I have made from Tangerine Racing.

Thats why i said pump water

Cause right now your pumpin money

Yes so true. But it is a love of the Orginal concept but not necessarily a commitment to complete originality. I would go V8 if I was pumping water.

But at this point in my life I am not going to give up on my love of the 4. I built and destroyed many 4s in my day. But it was always fun and I like doing more with less. Yes I am considering dropping $4k on the LE-200 heads. Not the smart move but it is an interesting one.

what are LE-200 heads? are those the new castings and reworked by Len Hoffman? , and why so expensive, are they gold or platinum plated?

They are AMC castings that have been extensively reworked.

The AMC castings are known for being great castings, but use crap hardware.

Len cleans up the casting, welds in better plug locations, flows the heads, and re-builds them with quality parts.

So you are buying the heads, new hardware, several hours of labor, and arguably the most experienced T4 head experience currently in the market.

Zach

Top of the line offering at the Type 4 Store, designed and made by HAM, Inc., starting with new AMC 1.8L castings. Uses 12mm spark plugs in the 2L location. Combines CNC and hand port work to yield high output across the rpm range on any large displacement engine, or smaller race engine. Valve springs provide control to 7500rpm. They are worth the coin, even without gold plating.

The reality is that for the average person dealing in Type 4s, these are the best that can be had. As the old saying goes, "the only thing that beats cubic inches is cubic dollars!"

This is the perfect example!

New AMC heads, toss the valves, springs, guides, retainers, keepers and seats.
Then weld the plug holes, plug hole top areas, chambers, intakes. Machine and tap plug holes, chambers, ports, intakes, seats, Install seats, guides, machine, quality valves HD springs, retainers, keepers.

Easy right?

Add to this although Len likely does a mini production run of heads, as far as production runs go the quantity is laughable. All the processes, head bench flowing, CNC programing, tooling and materials Len had to figure out.
This is still highly custom work and you get what you pay for.

Amen. People want high quality and performance, but don't want to pay for it. It's in our nature.

Nothing wrong with the OP's position in wanting to build stuff on his own, and I admire that and wish I had that time. But when the time came to put a hotter engine in my 914, there were only two roads that interested me: One of Jake's engines or a six. While I ultimately went the latter route because it was a deal too good to pass up and a chance to work on it alongside someone I've known since high school, I came very, very close to pulling the trigger on a Raby Type IV—and my respect for Jake's work has only grown since. The noises of the six and its characteristics as an engine are fabulous, but I have to say I miss the handling balance and lighter feel of a four. Then again, did I mention the noises? They're heavenly. But, were I to do it over again, and the six conversion was just another six conversion done by just about anyone else, I probably would have done a 2270. There's just something very cool about a hot four.

easy to strip and throw away the bad stuff, not so easy to do what he does! I am sure its worth the cost , especially if you are rebuilding a car that you plan on keeping a very long time. I have a 2.0 with 153,000 miles on it and i am sure at some point i will have to consider this, probably will have to start saving now though! hopefully i can run a few more years before i have to do a full rebuild. Time will tell. good luck Mike, watching the other thread very closely . post up some pictures of the goodies once you get then out of the box!

Well after much struggle and thought..... Looks like I will do the LE-200s.

Wow my first 914 did not cost this much.

i know what you mean mike!!
- cost of my first 914-$2500
- cost of rust repair- ~$5000
- cost of body/paint ~ $6500
-cost of rest of stuff ~ $5000+

the thrill of driving that thing once its done is... PRICELESS!!

i am sure once you put the pedal to the rusty foor, i mean metal you will say its worth it-

My first 914 - $800. Total for engine rebuild. $600. Paint $300. Drove it for years and sold it for $1200. But the memories are priceless. This car is way more expensive but still has great memories and is destined to go to the next generation of 914 owners.