Yes, I have a cage and I will have door bars.

So I looked and looked, but can't find a write up on how to remove the factory crash bars on late doors? I have 1/2 of it out, but the door latch side is a puzzlement. So far I've cut them in half and was able to cut out the front hinge side.

Can someone help?

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I have never seen it done before. I was going to do it I would have started on the other side and removed the outer door skin.

Well, I'm sure that would work. You would have access to cutting it off close to the edge and not mess with the inner panel or possibly even the interior components.

Here is how I got the front bar section out. It is riveted to the inside frame structure. I tried to drill out the rivets, but it wouldn't budge. So I cut that section out. After grinding it down I was able to wiggle it out from there. I'll put that section back in for strength.
Even so just that piece was 8#.

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The back section was riveted to an bracket, but also looks to be riveted to the structure where the weatherstrip goes to seal the door to the body.

Weight changes
(bathroom scale measurements)
Full 1975 door weight 55# (no door card, or speakers etc)
remove window, internal components, and latch/handles 34#
remove 1/2 of the door bar 26#

I'm confused, but whats new!! I mean... you're cutting bars out of these doors to put into your existing doors? As-in "I WILL have door bars if it's the last thing I do!!
.."Or, these are your existing doors and you're cutting the stock bars out (to save weight) because your roll cage has door bars already? Sorry I'm no help. I would have cut the sections out of the each outside end and pulled it out as a whole unit, probably.

EDIT: ok we must have been typing at the same time. I see now, you're saving weight. Good job!

I would have bought early doors.

Yes, it's replacing one door bar with another. Hopefully saving weight with all this work. . I'm hoping a tube will weigh less than 14#s. Actually, I'm hoping to save 25# per door. We'll see.

hard to do when I already have them. But, next time, Yeah, I would go with early doors.

Just got back from Club NARP where my build thread is and it did not show how I got the bar out just that it weighed 11 pounds. looks almost exactly like yours. I think I used a small grinding wheel. the thread over there is in the garage under Carerror.

Dan, if needed I have a 72/73 early passenger door (no crash bar) but with late window attachments. Mark

I used a three inch cuter wheel...pretty easy to get most of it, just left the stub..

Thanks Joe, I think I'm going the same way you did on the door. it rains too much to go without windows. I just need to find a good thread on making lightweight windows.

I can see why people have different weights of their bars. Some get a bigger bite and leave less material.

Thanks, I have 2 good passenger doors to ruin before I go that direction (but I'l keep you in mind for the inevitable. )

I'll just have to get to it with the cutters and see how much I can get.

That's the window and door opening mechanism I'm thinking.
Simple and light. Did you use glass or polycarbonate windows?

Thanks,
Dan

I don't think the weight savings is worth the safety trade off. Especially since with your HP & torque, you will never feel the difference.

Probably not, but I can't get out of my head how much a porker it is. Almost 2600# before I started with it. heck, my 944 was 2900.

What does yours weigh?


Joe Sharp, I can't get over your's being 1000# lighter.... I'm enjoying reading your thread.. Thanks.

I'm just under 2300 lbs. Not sure where you extra 300 came from. Although I could be a little heavier since I added caging up front and tied in my tow bar connections. Still your going to be close to 500ft lbs pushing that thing. You won't feel the added couple pounds.

I'm not sure that everything fiberglass is saving any weight. It's nice solid fiberglass, thick stuff, not the flimsy stuff I've seen. That said, except for doors, A pillars and sail panels, everything exposed is fiberglass. Oh, and the engine lid is stock. But the cage is very well constructed. Full interior with 4 speaker stereo. Plus a few added pieces that probably are heavier than they need to be.

I'm curious about how your added bars up front. That's one area I will likely be adding tubing.

Back to cutting on the door.

I don't have any numbers to share regarding weight, all I remember is the door with the crash bar is very heavy compared to ones without....May be double the weight. Mark

Full cage, empty doors...... full interior....four speaker stereo ? 2600 lbs. ! Very confusing. What is it ?

Dan, I eventually cut the door skin off the door frame and welded them closed. I left the door handle in but the door gap is gone. I have had several people try to open the door.

Is that pull-strap an old serpentine belt?

Here's some pics in my thread. It's kind of hard to see all the details where it mounts right above the front suspension mounts and ties into the tow bar tabs. The bars are welded to 1/4 plate, that is welded and gusseted to square tubing that ties above the suspension mounts.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...7914&st=420

EDIT: front bar is 1" 0.120 wall DOM tubing. Rest of the cage is 1-5/8" tubing.

Actually, I was saying that everything was fiberglass except the doors and the other things mentioned.

but Now they will be empty! Mostly...

In my Signature is the (re-)build thread.
But it's this car on it's way to a new life after a unfortunate meeting with some pine trees.

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looked like this when I got it.
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check my thread for the latest update.
I started this thread because I had a need for additional info on doors.

I'm sure it will be as strong or stronger than it was a year ago. But the extreme stresses on the suspension i feel this could be a weakish point. Can't hurt, right?

Thanks for the link I'll check out your build.
Dan

Now I know why it weighs 2600 lbs......an LS engine.
I drove the car when Paul owned it.
I didn't notice the four speaker stereo.
I'll bet the pine trees ran out onto the road.

Here is the latest on the door lightening.
I did as suggested and just cut it as close to the edge as possible with a 3” cutter. I kept chipping away until I could get no more. My total door bar/beam weight removed was about 13-14#.

As is with a door latch, no windows 21#
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Add-in the glass windows guides and door latch 35#
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All items removed beams, window mechanism, sheet metal 20#
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Seems consistent since I started with 55# for the full 1975 door.

Realllly?!

You're one step ahead of me. I've only driven it up and down the driveway. (and left some marks.)

So tell me your impression of the car overall and I'm curious of your thoughts on the engine tapping. It seems to have been there even when Bill first built it according to youtube videos.

Yeah the speakers are top notch, not the lightweight cheapies. I'll likely replace them with easily removable pods that will go behind the drivers head. between the stereo and the door work, I just saved 100#. Yay Me!

I don't know much about the engine. It is not stock. It had been disassembled and
some incompatible or non-streetable parts were changed.
Tapping ? don't know.
The clutch was heavy and difficult to modulate. The pan around the pedal cluster
was flexing. A fabricated reinforcement bracket was a 'bandaid'
The gearshift linkage barely worked. My efforts were experimental with existing
equipment. Little if any improvement. Limited time and budget.
The car then went to a well known east coast shop.
Big opportunity for development.

Thanks for your insights. I really appreciate it.

A couple of those items were worked on when Paul owned it. I don't know if they were done before or after you drove it. the clutch was changed to a lighter one. A smaller cam was installed but it's still over 500 crank hp. The gearshift brackets were improved. But I agree that there is room for improvement in the shifting. Seems stiff to me. The engine is still a bit noisy, but it could be forged pistons/rod/crank in an aluminum block with headers and aluminum heads. or so the "Internet" says...

Yep, the pull strap is an old belt...good eye....
Sorry for the slow response...was running at HSR Daytona race this weekend ...over 150 thru the tri oval...awesome place.
I fabbed up lexan windows to seal up the car...just as crude a the door pulls...only use them trailering to events.

For lightweight windows remove your window and trace it onto lexan cut it out and re install
At least that makes sense to me

I hadn't really thought about that part, but it makes sense.
I probably won't even mess with the wing, they are pretty light. but the window is about 7 or 8 lbs. I may just try to cut out some lexan if I can find some that will work and be safe at a reasonable price.

Anyone have suggestions on where to buy Lexan Sheets?

There is a company in England that sells a lexan window kit for 914’s. I believe their side windows are formed with the correct curve for the door.

Boom
FYI This fiberglass door weighs in at 8 lbs. on my lying bathroom scale.

also they need hinge holes drilled and tapped, latch holes cut and lots of trimming and finish work.

Now that's really going over to the dark side...

Some local independent windshield installers have them & will cut a piece if you take your window in to them.....they outfit the circle track guys all the time.

https://www.tapplastics.com/

Thanks, I might have something like that close to me. If not. Mailorder isn't a bad thing...

HEY! I DID loose 57#, and that was before I touched those doors...

It's all relative... Son...

Your doing amazing with the weight loss




My bathroom scale lies as well

Just as a FYI Rgalla drove it in July 2011 prior to all of the work done to improve clutch operation. For all the detail of the work done in this area have a look at the paperwork that I complied and supplied with the car. In a nutshell We got rid of the "band aid" bracket, welded crack in floor, got rid of cobbled together pedal assembly, changed the master and slave cylinders with new ratios and high heat seals, re-enforced the floor by welding a plate by pedal assemblies tied into longitudinal and center tunnel, replaced pedal assembly with Wilwood 2 pedal assembly, rerouted and replaced shifter cable and new heim joint, installed lighter pressure plate from Kennedy Engineering, resurfaced flywheel, sent 930 trans to California Motorsports for rebuild, measured and built properly sized bronze impregnated pilot bushing to replace needle bearings supplied by Kennedy to better support main shaft, fabricated transmission/shifter/exhaust mount tow and jack point nicknamed "the octopus", added delrin shims and new hardware on clutch release arm, fabricated new clutch release lever with multiple adjustment points added all new mounting hardware etc... Still after all of that work we couldn't feel it notch into gear until I wandered on the problem of the side to side shifter cable was bound up because it didn't have a conical washer! The combination of all of these things reduced pedal pressure and increased shifter feel. Could it be better? I don't know but not sure what else you could do to improve it?

Motor has tapped a bit since I had owned it form the beginning.

Keep up the good work. Plenty of power to weight ratio! I wouldn't be too concerned with putting the car on a diet. I believe it weighed 2550 lbs. with top off if I remember correctly. Motor, trans, cage, larger, brakes, hubs, wheels, tires and water cooled parts all add to weight total.

Happy to discuss if any questions.

Paul

Hi Paul. Yes I'm having fun!

The clutch seems fine. I may move the clutch pedal and maybe brake pedal over an inch or so, but I'm still up in the air on that. In the build thread I talk about that where I removed some sheetmetal.

I'm not even that worried about the tapping. I'm really wondering if it was built loose due to the forged components. I don't know that much about built LS engines. I do know that it's been that way a long time, I even have videos of it. And I knew that going into this adventure.

The shifter takes a bit of effort, but I really haven't driven it and gone thru the gears, so it maybe something I just get used to. I'll take a look at the cables and the washers, I have the trans out so I'll have to be careful to get it back together correctly.

I've been on a weight loss thing all year, so I guess it just rolled over to the car.

I know the brakes, hubs, spacers, wheels/tires, oil and water cooling systems, and of course cage, all add up to more weight than normal. But I'm glad they're all there. Well, I am looking for wheels that will work without the spacers... Yeah, that's a lot of added weight, all that fiberglass is doing the job to keep the weight down.

Starting at 2550, I think 2450 is real doable. Maybe even 2400. Weight is a factor for me for handling and braking. In EMod, we have some really light hot rods in the local SCCA. I don't plan on beating them but I would like to at least get close. Track days will be fun either way, but every bit helps.

The key when reassembling the shifter cables is to make sure the heims can articulate thru their full range with conical washers or else you cant really feel it notch into gear.

Understood about adding lightness.