Just wondering what value we should be putting on /6 conversions these days?

My teen, if it was still a /4, I wouldn't even consider an offer under $25K Canadian, so about $18-19K USD. Not that I want to sell.

/6 core prices are way way up, and so are running engines, What about a fresh performance build?. I used to tell customers a conversion would run $30K (CAD) with engine. but I seriously doubt I could do that now.

My teen is a '74 (1.8 base) paint is (guessing) a 30 yr/old respray colour change, a 7/10 from chips and scratches only, but perfect OG body, perfect interior, Evil tranny, 5-bolt, fuchs , bilsteins, front suspension, etc
Engine 3.0, 2K miles, twinplug/MSD, webers, custom mahle pistons, web cams, fresh build, alumimum tank, etc

No clue what the replacement value for insurance would be.....
What do you think your /6 conversion is worth?

Mark I have American Collectors Insurance
I put a value of my “project” at $40K. Sent them pics
of engine, wheels,etc.
They know I’m in restoration mode. All they asked
was pictures when complete to increase it.
I plan on upping that when it’s complete.

Wouldn’t sell mine for 40k. Completely rust free after removal of said problems and the motor and the 911S brakes, etc. yours is worth more. Wouldn’t trade for a 911 of same year. Couldn’t have it built for that cost. They say that the value is what someone would pay. But what about what it would take for someone to sell.

I'm more worried about the other guy, fire, theft, etc.
I have Hagerty, I know it's way undervalued now.
$40K USD would be $53.5K Canadian.

When I built custom bikes at the bike shop, I would fill out a build sheet with every single part for the build. I would do the same if the customer's expensive bike was stolen and did one for myself when two of my bikes were taken. Unless you write it down, you will forget half the parts. First write down systems: Engine, trans, brakes, body, etc and then break down each system into smaller parts. You need a replacement value, not how much you paid after deals, swaps and stuff you already had. What will it cost to buy it all at retail or at least market rate. It will be shocking but without the build sheet, the insurance company will just rely on comps and that's hard to do accurately with a custom conversion. If you ever have to go the insurance route, your adjuster will have no clue about a six conversion so a build sheet with pics will help you get what you deserve. It helps if you can get an automotive shop to list all the parts and costs on their letterhead. Receipts are great as well but I don't keep them or have them to begin with.

Mark, mine is in the last stage of assembly. Two years ago after having it painted I had it insured for $35,000 agreed value. Same reason, fire, theft.....Not sure what final value we be. Best, MarkClick to view attachment

I bet a car like this would cost $75k+ to replace.

I've currently only got mine insured for 25K UKP (33K USD) at the moment which is the max Hagerty UK would insure a good condition 73 2.0L for. But hope to change that as soon as I get the car back from paint. Ideally I'm looking to double that figure at least.

My '74 3.2L conversion is insured with Hagerty for $40k USD, increased from $35k in 2017. With swapping in a 916 transaxle (Martin Bott), 911 axles, and Ben's SS heat exchangers and muffler, I'll still be under water in a loss.

I have my 74 with 3.0L insured with Hagerty for 45K, but if I were to follow mepsteins build sheet suggestion I think I would have to increase the insured value. Better get on it.
Bill.

Get a professional appraisal...period.

Someone who is very knowledgeable in Porsches and the current cost of parts. We have a guy like that here in Portland.

Most of you guys will be too low on what you think your car is worth.

Conversion 50 k
As those can be replaced
You could build it for 50 right mark ?

Original and lets be honest
99k is a extremely reasonable number
Right ?

It’s not how much it’s worth, it’s how much you want back if lost factoring in the odds of loss. The rest is self insured.

any decent six conversion (genuine five lug conversion, factory 911 engine, correct oil tank and heat exchangers). Nice paint and interior, is worth 50,000 to insure. These days just a great running original 911 engine is worth at least 15,000

The guy who posted above you is laughing at $50K.

Taking it to Sugar River?

My '73 2.4S conversion narrow body hot rod is agreed value insured with Hagerty for $35K.

I'll up it to $40K next year, but how would I (or you) react if someone offered me (or you) a full $35-40K cash deal for the car, money on the barrel? Hmmm....

Only have mine at 30K agreed value. The conversion and all the upgrades cost that much. Bought it originally for 7K with a 2.0. Time to up it. A database of current sales prices by month (car year, unmolested, modified, 6 Conversion, original 6, sales price) would provide a range of real world values.

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So here's my build sheet for 3.0 1974 914 six conversion, what's the engine and the rest of the drivetrain worth?

The build was well documented here's the thread http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...=0#entry1993833

Engine 3.0L, 70.4mm X 95mm, 10.5: 1 CR
Case, 1979, 3.0, serial # *6399XXX, 930/13, 930.101.104.4R, Supertec head studs
Crank, stock, std/std, polished and magnafluxed, converted to CW distributor drive gear.
Rods, stock, rebuilt big and small end, new bushings, ARP bolts and nuts.
Flywheel stock lightened, with custom 914-901 adapter ring, CSP 228mm bus HD pressure plate.
Full engine balance, pressure plate and adapter ring balanced separately and as a full complete assembly.
Main bearings, new glyco, DFL (Dry Film Lube) coated.
#8 Main bearing, original Porsche, DFL coated.
Rod bearings, new glyco, DFL coated.
Intermediate shaft bearings, new Porsche, DFL coated.
Gasket set, new nose and rear main seal, Supertec sealant kit.
Pump, stock, cooler stock 911 modified to 914/6 spec.
Pistons, Mahle, new, 3.0 custom RSR style, 10.5:1 CR, DFL coated skirts, ceramic coated tops, Goetze rings.
Cylinders, stock 3.0 nickasil, replated Milenium/LN engineering, stock gaskets, .025mm base gasket.
Heads, 3.0 big port, port work, twin plug.
Valves, stock size, exhaust new TRW sodium, intake new AE.
Valve springs, Eibach sport, retainers early stock, keepers stock modified
Ceramic chambers and exhaust ports.
Cams, WEB-CAM, 120/104, set at 5.2mm/.10 lash, 964 cores modified to 901 spec.
Towers, spray bars R&R, tapped and cleaned, rockers resurfaced, RSR rocker shaft seals.
Chains, new IWIS, new cam sprockets, keys and pins.
Tensioners, hydraulic, no fail modification.
906 style cylinder cooling deflectors.
Cooler, stock, 3.0, modified for 914.

Oil tank, DWD, aluminum, with console and neck
Custom breather tank and OE hose.
Oil, Brad Penn break in, Delo 400 15w40

Carburetors, Weber 40mm IDA, rebuilt, new carb kits, 34mm venturies, 135 main jets, F3 emulsion tubes, 180 air correction, 55 idle, Ported stock manifolds, custom phenolic spacers.
K&N filters and rain hats, Weber linkage
Walbro fuel pump and PMO regulator.

Distributor, PMS/Jarvis, CW, MSD internals, Jaguar XJS-12 cap (1989-1996), Jarvis rotor (RSR clone)
Plug wires custom labled twin plug, Patrick Motorsports
Ignition, MSD 6AL, twin MSD high vibration coils, max RPM 6800
Spark plugs, NGK BPR5ES (BPR6ES also available for tuning)

Headers, 914, 1-1/2” MSDS, ceramic coated
Muffler/collector Magnaflow custom stainless steel 2-1/2”
WMS O2 meter, wideband

Transmission
914, 901, side shift rebuilt, using good used parts
Gasket set, Elring
Gearing, custom, A,F,O,X, HB
Stub axles 108mm 911/901

Spare 2nd rebuilt transmission with stock 914/4 gearing

Axles, Sway-Away custom, part# 2420 directional L and R mark to the outside
CV, Lobro, G50 108mm modified to '1969-1974 spec grease seals
Rear hubs and stubs, 5-bolt Porsche,1972 911, new bearings
Bilstien, shocks, 140lb springs

Front struts, 914/6, Bilstien struts, 5-bolt hubs,
Turbo tie rods, ball joints, and bearings all new German.
Free Motion needle bearings for the front, Original Customs

Sway bars, Tarett front and stock rear

Front calipers, Brembo aluminum, Alpha Romeo GTV-6/Milano (1984-86), rebuilt with 911M kits
Front pads, 1971-72 bus modified,
Front rotor stock vented 914/6, drilled
Rear calipers, PMB V-calipers, stock 914/4 modified for vented rotor, stock rear pads.
Rear rotor stock vented 911, diameter reduced 5mm (10mm total)

Fuchs 1975 “020” 5-bolt Porsche refinished
Spare 944 turbo "outlaw" space saver,

Most of the big names charge $20-30k for a full engine overhaul - depending on parts used. That’s not including any real high end or exotic builds.

We had a customers car that had a stock 2.7 rebuilt for $22.5 that ran like crap. It still needed the CIS rebuilt. That cost another $1,500 in parts.


Like I said, the only way to get a true replacement cost is to write up every part and put a retail price next to it. Eye watering for sure.

Even your detailed list is incomplete. There are tons of gaskets, grommets, seals and hardware pieces that add up. Just the speedo, clutch, throttle and e- brake cables are ~$250 to replace.

You can call me crazy and those of you who know me
Know im fit for a straight jacket
But id drive my car with no insurance if i could .

The whole what if something happened is a ridiculous notion imho

Thats like someone saying boxing is dangerous.


When ever you climb in a ring, a old car , a ww1 fighter plane .

You acknowledge the risk , that is the thrill for some of us .
When i wash, walk ,train and socialize aggressive dogs.
I acknowledged that if i make a mistake that i could be bitten.

As moe green would say
" this is the business we've chosen"

Same as basketball. When i play hoops for 20 years
Im gonna expect some broken fingers, nose and sprained ankles.but the enjoyment i get is always more then the pain




When my old boss used to hire unqualified employees and something would happen .he would say o well thats what insurance is for . ( i was not a fan ) needless to say
That insurance was there to cover for people that cut corners .

Drive and enjoy your cars guys .

Something is not bueatiful because it lasts

That's another issue, what it cost me several years ago (2012-ish) or today?
Also when I bought everything the CAD and USD dollar was at par, today it's only .70 to the USD. And almost everything on my list has gone way up in price.

Core 3.0 $2K
Mahle 3.0 piston's were $1200 NIB and so was the plating, so $2400. Pistons believed to be from a race team for a backup engine and never used, took a chance and won. They look like RSR but are made for a stock head chamber, real RSR heads had smaller CC chambers, thus different CR pistons, logic on the guess being they were made for a RSR backup with stock heads.
I was offered $5K for the P&C kit on the bird when I showed off my goodies 5-6 years ago.

Today.
I believe a 917 was $35k from the factory in ‘69. Are you going to insure it for 35k or 4 mill.

I think $50K is the floor. The ceiling is where the discussion will vary as to which 6 conversion...

X2...Most collector car insurers will write "agreed value" insurance for the amount you want to insure the car for (within reason). There is a trade off between potential loss and the premium they will charge depending on the amount of that loss. They know the numbers pretty well

If you want a higher "agreed value" the premium will go up accordingly. You can generally determine what "agreed value" you want based on what you figure you have into the car and what your budget is for insurance. You may have to self insure a portion if there is a disconnect between the two.

I put mine at $65K canadian. Better safe than sorry.

Reasonable and realistic, the price I'd need to buy a similar replacement. I don't want it over or under insured.


With Canadian funny money that would be add 30%, so $65K CAD.
wobbletop's 914 conversion is a stock 3.0 engine, I think webers is the only mod and my car is in better overall shape than his.


Who with? Hagerty?
Cripes by that metric I'm way under insured.

Yes, it sounds like you have a $30k engine +\-, let alone all the rest of the parts. A big brake 5 lug conversion can be $5-10k. It adds up fast and theft, collision or natural disaster can total it in a flash. I saw a trash truck back into the side of a a Prius at 10mph. The car was demolished. The truck driver just never saw the car. He was ready to drive away until someone stopped him.

Best thing you can do is have a talk with your insurance person and work out the details.

The other issue if the wife finds out what it's worth....

Currently have mine at 50k, and will be raising it to 75k when I get it back from PMS.

Correct. The last time I asked here, the consensus was around $50K US.

Lol.

Yep...

The six conversion that opened my eyes to potential values was the flared white car that sold on BaT for $57k~. Yes, it was presented well and built out to broad tastes (well, as broad as it gets with 914s), but the engine pretty mild iirc.



Hmm. Was thinking $35-50k is sort of the catchall for a nice six conversion, but what is the right number? What would it cost to replace? is probably the right question—and not would it cost to replace if you want to spend years and years on a project again.

That's funny... so true.

They say 'buy the best one you can afford'. The reason is because it cost less than buying a base car and restoring or converting it. A completed car is seldom worth the cost of it's parts once labor is factored in... especially if it's highly modified as it narrows the potential buyer pool.

I remember saying 'I wouldn't sell a car for less than $25,000' when I had no intention of selling it, but later when I decided to sell it, I had to accept what the 'market' would bear.

Converted sixes on Bat have been going for the low 20's without steel flares and as high as $67,500... but that is really the exception.

The market will determine what a car is worth when it is sold, but we all get to determine what it is worth while we own it and those two things can be quite different.

How do you place a value on blood, sweat and tears... especially when it's your own.



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Never sell.

Yep... should have told me that 25 years and ten 914's ago.

I have an agreed upon value with Hagerty of $55k. I made a full list of parts required specifically to rebuild my car as it sits...everything from oil tank, suspension, motor, body work, Fuchs etc....if you use retail prices for everything(I sent them links for the big ticket items), you get a big number quickly. Add in a reasonable amount of labor at a reputable shop and well....after awhile its gets depressing, LOL! Any who, Hagerty didn't argue at all. In the end, $55k still wouldn't be enough to build my car with today's prices on everything...

^ Good points.

Silver car @ $67k was a real six, iirc? I remember thinking it took a hit for being a 914-6 with bodywork that won't appeal to everyone, particularly as a rare 1972 car, rather than getting a premium as a four converted to a six?

If so, the outlier was the $52k car, which ended up higher with the fees included. Flares do seem to add value in the BaT arena. Wonder if we'll see that trend continue, increase, or decrease as the 914 continues to grow in popularity and recognition. Hard to argue with the looks of the GT flares, but I do like the tidy original fenders, too.

So I wonder what I should insure my project for? If complete cars are selling for 50k plus I probably have 25-30k project car? Sum of parts of course.

Don't mix up replacement value with your cost to build. You might have been able to build your engine for $10K but if you try to buy the same from Henry, you pay what, $25K. You would be shooting yourself in the foot if you give the insurance companies the cheapest number possible. If you have a loss, they might come down from retail but it's sure better than coming down from wholesale.

My attorney always says the person with the most documentation wins. If you present documentation for what the car actually cost the average person, not the industry insider, (honestly of course) there is a better chance of actually receiving that money than hoping they find an acceptable value from their resources. Do you think the Early S 911 guys are using what they paid for the car $50K or what it would cost to replace - $200K.

If you suffer a loss and you feel the insurance company is paying you too much, you can always accept less

My engine did cost me about $10K, but there was a lot of wheeling & dealing over 3-4 years to do it, plus all the labour, plus the Canadian dollar was at par at the time. For a customer who wants a done project in a couple months, same engine, $25K USD easy. And that's just the engine.

I want a replacement value that would get me a comparable 914/6 conversion.

engine $25K
my car $18K
suspension, brakes, bilstein struts, fuchs, etc., new tranny, /6 tank, etc... it's a freaking big list.
$12K?

There's $55k USD or for me it's$72K CAD, and not many nice /6 conversions come up for sale in these parts.

Our shop is building at least a dozen $150-200K + project cars. At least 2 have $90K engines. If we went by book value, they'd be $40K each.

So are you saying I'm low?
I think I am but I want a realistic replacement value.

Those are 911's. I think you have to take your time and price it out. You don't have to insure for full retail but it's good to know where you stand.

Ex - rennshifter, jwest linkage, custom knob, custom shift rod. - $1K
oil system - lines, cooler, bypass plate, thermostat, oil tank, console, filler, hardline,
dipstick, $2K easy
SS heat exchangers, SS exhaust, hanger, cable, flapper boxes, hardware, gaskets,
hoses, etc, etc, $3-4K
rebuilt trans, clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, 911 trans stubs, sway away axles, 911
hub stubs, 911 cv's, 911 hubs, 914 bearings, hardware, etc... $?

it adds up so fast.

With insurance like you said. IT isn't what you could sell your car for. It is replacement value. Replacement value if you have it done at a shop. When you customize your car. Say with a conversion. You are not going to find the same car for sale. While a bit more likely with a 6 conversion. You still have to price it if you were having it built. Hell I have my Subaru conversion insured for 50k & my appraisal is for more. I plan to up it to 75k once my current drivetrain upgrade is done. Some might say I'm on crack. Could I build one for less? Absolutely. Could I have a bare metal, ground up restore, metal gt flares installed, new gorgeous paint, chassis stiffening, 911 upgrade suspension, custom welding & parts up the wazu, Custom wiring galore, motor rebuilt & upgraded, New larger turbo, uprgaded every part of the fuel system, all new gauges plus all new rubber. There isn't anything that hasn't been redone with newer better parts. Could that all be done by a shop for less? Not in today's market. Could I sell my car for 75k? Hell no. Would I if I could? for 75k HELL YES. Would I sell it for my current 50k insured value? I'd say no but I would probably at least consider the possibility. Answer would still probably be hell no. Would all depend where I was at in life & what I really needed.

So there is my 2 cents on the subject. Which isn't a six conversion at all. I thought it might help put some of the six conversion guys in perspective though. A Porsche six conversion with the same upgrades is worth more

Concur at least $50k US for a good 6 conversion.
BTW Mark, hope you like those webcams... I just noticed yours are what I just ordered for my 930/02 engine.

Good choice I like them, good grunt, but totally streetable.
What pistons? JE? this won't work with stock slugs. Likes CR, 9.5 single plug, 10.5+ twin plug.

JE 9.5:1. This engine has the lighter 2.7 6 bolt crank, large intake port, and clockwise distributor. Nice mix.
Glad you like them... I wanted an agressive street cam and was concerned I overdid it.

My Insurance renewal came up last month; but this thread has got me thinking I need to re-think the insured value on the GT tribute. When I started getting parts sourced and the donor car purchased for the project in the 2013-ish timeframe, used prices were VERY different than today. I now worry (as Mark pointed out) that even just getting a shopping list together for used, good component parts in need of rebuild / refurb won't cover the $36K current insured value - let alone getting them refurbed and actually nailing the thing together. And paint. And roll cage install. And 7&8 Fuchs. And.... etc.

Good conversation here.

- Tony