Would be be a great career for someone who loves Porsches!Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

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You ever think about an apprentice program?

I think that would be a great idea. I graduated an apprentice program and love what I do.

always an apprentice program for a person with talent. Some really have it some, who aspire to be a mechanic do not. We can always tell within a week

Not may chances these days to learn about turning wrenches. If you can't do it on a computer, kids are lost on what to do. Problem solving is not something taught these days. I went to several body shops and asked if they had any metal men. I had to explain what they were. They only have remove and replace people.

I think the reality shows on MotorTrend make folks think that metal work and body finishing is something that can be done quickly. Unless they bring back shop and other technical courses in high school, I think we’ll see all future fabricators come from overseas. Even good mechanics that can diagnose and repair systems (not just replace components) are getting hard to find.

My company started a apprenticeship program six years ago for tool and die makers. Like good mechanics and metalworkers, we realized that real tool and die guys are not coming up through the ranks to replace our current guys, and we needed to train and develop from within. NIMS accredited 4-year course. They are well paid through the program, work with all new, apprenticeship dedicated equipment along with classroom work. There is a repayment requirement if they leave the company prior to a couple years after graduation. We spend a bit over a million a year on the program, but have graduated several classes and are reaping the rewards of the investment.

Fun hobby but not a profession I would want for my kids.

Learning a trade is a great thing for kids.

The automotive industry loses mechanics to retirement or other fields at a rate of 3:1 vs the amount of mechanics coming into the field.

There's a real shortage coming in a lot of trades and the pay and benefits are about to get a lot better.

You have to love cars to be a mechanic and this Generation barely likes cars.

As a career goes it kinda sucks; I have half a years salary invested in tools, every couple years the car changes so the education is on going, some days are physically exhaustive, and I've lost track of the number of lost days due to neck or back pain.

Today I have plenty of work to do, but with the current environment, low maintenance electric cars will be the norm in 20 years, so why spend your college money on a dying field when there are plenty of good paying and growing options.

George, I think your best option is to network with your customers and offer training.

The top guys at our shop make less than half of what my son makes his first year out of college and that's before his company pays his end of year bonus. Our guys have spent 10's of thousands on tools. The company my son works for gave him a top of the line Mac the day he started and a large signing bonus, benefits and vacation. I'm not saying the trades aren't important or a good fit for some but there is no comparison to the white collar world. I've worked a lot of blue collar jobs and seen lots of guys get hurt on the job or just worn out and the job doesn't usually take care of them back. When I worked at Sallie Mae selling student loans, the company stopped doing loans for most tech schools. That group of students had the highest rate of defaults.

Send them out to individuals across the country with time and experience one at a time. There are a lot of retired extremely skilled 914 people who are bored and twiddling their thumbs and wanting to work on cars in their home shop.


Would be an insurance nightmare

The older I get the more of this I see the trades slowly fading away. A good friend of mine looking at retirement restores old collectible aircraft as a business. Some of the work he does is amazing, shipped to him from all over the world because no one gets involved anymore. He works alone because he’s not able to hire even though he’s willing to teach the trade. My older boy was offered a chance at it and pretty decent pay. I really thought it would be good for him as he seems to really enjoy building bikes “café racers” although very happy that he’s back to college.

With a trade you're not $150k in debt right out of the box
(The big trade schools are a rip off, find a good community college!)

Last dealer I worked for came with a $5k sign on bonus and a week's vacation up front. Laptops at each bench are standard in all the shops now.

My first year as an actual dealer apprentice I made almost $40k (1997ish)
The last year that I was wrenching I made a tick under $100k (2012)

The money is there if you know your vehicle line well and you're willing to work hard to get it.

Yes I have close to $100k in tools but if you figure I built that collection over roughly 25 years, it's cheaper than most people spend on coffee every year (you need to learn to tell the tool guys "no!" early on in your career). You also get to write them off on your taxes which helps. They're also a hard asset that really doesn't depreciate.

As for wear and tear, I've seen more than my fare share of office workers with wrist and elbow surgery from sitting at a computer all day and back issues from the same.

If you take care of yourself, know your limits, and work smarter being a mechanic is no harder than any other job except you have to use your brain and your hands at the same time

Even the fanciest cars still need a guy behind the wrench. A computer can't find squeaks, rattles, or water leaks. Even the almighty Tesla has packed shops with 4 guys per stall. They still require all the usual maintenance minus the oil change.

The mechanic position will always be there, can't say the same about an office job. (Anyone remember 2008?)

Like a programmer

I built websites during the 1999 boom, 50-60 hours a week busy and raked in $87k. Then it went bust and to eat I fell back on my mechanic know-how which I still do. But a web programmer today starts at $100k and all the perks you think to ask for.

That said, the real money is in owning a business. Out here someone walking on your roof costs $500/hr.

This is a top discussion at most Auto Repair business meetings. The last meeting that I attended was last month and the forecast for the auto repair industry was that the next 5 years will be profitable. This is coming from one of the major auto parts suppliers in the country. With this in mind, I believe that as a tech in an independent repair shop, dealer or franchise, you can make a good living as long as you have what it takes.

I believe that there is opportunity in this industry for those with talent and ambition. One big obstacle is that most high schools are pushing everyone to go to a traditional 4 year college and few are offering alternatives.

I haven't turned wrenches professionally in 25 years. My skills are so out of date it would take 6 months before I would be up on all the new cars. I stopped in to visit with one of my former employers, and he offered me a job at his shop, starting immediately, at a pay rate that is comparable to what I make as a sysadmin. He says I can pick up on the new car stuff because "90% of the new stuff on cars is computers, and you know that. The rest is the same as it always has been."

My employment contract is up at the end of June, and I am currently looking for a new job. So I seriously considered it. But in the end, I decided to stick with IT. The pay is the same, and I don't come home from work greasy.


George, the idea of getting paid to work on 914s all day is really tempting. But I don't want to relocate to Atlanta. And what would I do when we ran out of broken 914s?

Ask me in 10 years, when I am supposed to retire.


Clay

I live at a college prep school so I am biased. I do agree there is a huge need for trades people. Not everyone, including me, is cut out for the corporate life. I always have a great appreciation for people who can fix and create stuff. With all the competition for cheap labor and cheap parts, it does seem to be a harder career choice than it used to be.

Working on and fixing 914's is it's own issue. It cost almost the same in parts and labor to work on a 914 as a 911 but the end value is so different that guys don't want to invest the money. Ex- It's harder to justify a $10K paint job on a $10K 914 than a $50K 911. Obviously there are exceptions but that's the general rule that keeps all the $2-5K 914's out there from getting restored.

Where I work we get a lot of flat-raters that want something better. We have a program for them called Worker Skills Progression. Starts out a little higher pay wise because they already know how to use hand tools. For these guys it's all about learning the vehicle.

I went through the apprentance program starting at age 37. I wish I started at age 20 or even 18. It even got me my Associates Degree. I had to buy tools up to 2". Larger stuff comes out of a tool crib. I did not bring anything from home and have quite the collection there for my own addictions.

We hire about 200 apprentances a year and cannot keep up with the attrition from retirement. We get a mechanic trained up in 4 years and they find another job in the company the 5th.

My local Porsche mechanic has been doing it for about 30 years and a few years ago he found a great kid to teach. It's been a pleasure watching the kid mature and gain knowledge.

I just changed the water pump on a Prius. Going for a test drive afterwards was like heaven.

Now is a good time to get into it, if you were a young man looking for your way. Many of the mechanics who came up in the 70s are aging out, my mechanic is in his mid-60s and slowing down. Many of these guys would love to have someone carry the business for the next 10-20 years. You would learn skills from guys who learned them when the cars were new and once many of these guys retire you can set your prices. I think of Jeff Adams in CT. He started working at KAM as a young guy, learning from Gerry McCarthy, who learned 4-cam's at the Porsche Carrera School. Gerry is no longer with us, but Jeff is going strong, he's a little older than me, probably edging toward 50. He has more work than he can handle, being one of the few guys left who really knows those engines. This is an extreme example but as time goes on the same principle will apply, a young guy who knows Porsches will be able to set his prices where he can do very well for himself. But now is the time, learn from the old guys, before they are gone.

Jeff is 2nd from left in this picture.

Man, I have heard this from friends in the business for years. Independent shops want to hire fresh blood, but every kid wants to start out making bank when they dont really know anything, or if they went to UTI, WYOTECH or some such, they are told that they are worth $36/hr and have loan debt that needs fed.
I still often dream about putting it all into EvilWerks and making the biz what it could be. As people age out, my tranz skills will only be more in demand, and Im early 40s so hope to have a few decades left. This doctoring gig is not all that bad, though, so my stuff remains a side gig for now. If I lived closer to Eric Shea and PMB, I think my trajectory would change. But I am not moving to UT I would cite Eric's company as a success in the current setting, or any setting really. But, I bet he has hiring issues due to talent pool as well. Mater of fact, I dont know a single shop that isnt in need when I think about it. Every one of them has had folks with poor work ethic, no skills, lazy, want way too much money for what they bring to the table. Total bummer as I love seeing new people learning these classics and making their rent payments with their hands and learned skills. Something very visceral about that.

Yep, these kids get fed a line of BS at the schools like UTI and Wyo-tech that they're gonna make 80k as soon as they graduate. So they graduate and have a pile of debt and change oil for the first two years. They leave the job disappointed and hating the industry because of the lies they were told.

It doesn't help that most of the dealerships don't have a graduated apprenticeship program in place to give the good ones a chance to lean under a journeyman so they can become the next generation.

then there are such guys who would have made a superb Porsche mechanic who use that skill and become a medical doctor instead!!!!

Bob B

Fired up a new 996 4.0 engine I built with a lot of LN goodies today, having fun breaking in a new C4S engine. I like to take a new engine installed for 2-3 40 minute drives to be sure it's sorted, so it's my grocery getter for a couple days
Couple days I'm firing up on the test stand, a T4 DTM 2056cc, cam, 40 webers, CSP SS exhaust, 914 head, HD springs, 1.7 rockers etc., custom wired, VW bug conversion turnkey engine.

Then eight more engines in still in queue, plus other work.



I think I'm getting an apprentice, or will be looking for one. I need someone for sure, I'm turning away work, but it's hard finding the right guy.

If I had the right guy who put out a poop load of good work I'd almost pay that. Not going to pay a apprentice that much to start. Most guys start off OK, then starts the dog fuching....I had a great painter resto/guy but then he started slacking, plus he was an asshole, so I had to get rid of him.
Most repair shops here pay book rate, but you can't do book rate on many/most of these projects.

the good mechanics here make 100 grand a year plus, working only 40 hours a week. Have their own tools though, many many of them, and know exactly what they are doing

[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Apr 10 2019, 02:17 PM' post='2704119']
then there are such guys who would have made a superb Porsche mechanic who use that skill and become a medical doctor instead!!!!

Funny you should say that George...as I sit here in my clinic waiting on my next patient and spending a few minutes recharging by spending some time on 914World. Not a doc, but a PA in my 13th year of practice in orthopedic surgery. It was my love of air cooled VWs that got me interested in medicine. I figured if I can learn how to fix a car, I can learn how to fix a person. I was advised not to bring that up in my admission interviews, but when I talk about that with my colleagues they all seem to get it. At work I use tools to fix bones, and when I go home I use some of the same (albeit less sterile) tools to work on my VWs and my 914. The newest "toy" is a 63K mile 1975 914-4, as rust free as one can expect a 914 to be as it has lived its whole life in a California garage. I'm new to the forum, and have appreciated all the great advice and experience I see as I have spent the last month browsing through all of your posts. My thanks to all of you.

Sounds like we need an East Bay 914 breakfast to welcome newcomers. What’s the interest for this, for a Saturday in May?

you are certainly lucky to get THAT car.

The best mechanic in the world is the mechanic who works on the human body


[quote name='fiacra' date='Apr 10 2019, 04:48 PM' post='2704161']
[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Apr 10 2019, 02:17 PM' post='2704119']
then there are such guys who would have made a superb Porsche mechanic who use that skill and become a medical doctor instead!!!!

Funny you should say that George...as I sit here in my clinic waiting on my next patient and spending a few minutes recharging by spending some time on 914World. Not a doc, but a PA in my 13th year of practice in orthopedic surgery. It was my love of air cooled VWs that got me interested in medicine. I figured if I can learn how to fix a car, I can learn how to fix a person. I was advised not to bring that up in my admission interviews, but when I talk about that with my colleagues they all seem to get it. At work I use tools to fix bones, and when I go home I use some of the same (albeit less sterile) tools to work on my VWs and my 914. The newest "toy" is a 63K mile 1975 914-4, as rust free as one can expect a 914 to be as it has lived its whole life in a California garage. I'm new to the forum, and have appreciated all the great advice and experience I see as I have spent the last month browsing through all of your posts. My thanks to all of you.
[/quote]

When I was still fixing cars for a living, I had a surgeon for a customer. I always told her she had it easy. She only had one make and two models to work on, while I had hundreds of makes and models.

Her reply:. "You can turn yours off while you work on it. I can't."

[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Apr 11 2019, 08:44 AM' post='2704311']
you are certainly lucky to get THAT car.

The best mechanic in the world is the mechanic who works on the human body


[quote name='fiacra' date='Apr 10 2019, 04:48 PM' post='2704161']
[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Apr 10 2019, 02:17 PM' post='2704119']
then there are such guys who would have made a superb Porsche mechanic who use that skill and become a medical doctor instead!!!!

Funny you should say that George...as I sit here in my clinic waiting on my next patient and spending a few minutes recharging by spending some time on 914World. Not a doc, but a PA in my 13th year of practice in orthopedic surgery. It was my love of air cooled VWs that got me interested in medicine. I figured if I can learn how to fix a car, I can learn how to fix a person. I was advised not to bring that up in my admission interviews, but when I talk about that with my colleagues they all seem to get it. At work I use tools to fix bones, and when I go home I use some of the same (albeit less sterile) tools to work on my VWs and my 914. The newest "toy" is a 63K mile 1975 914-4, as rust free as one can expect a 914 to be as it has lived its whole life in a California garage. I'm new to the forum, and have appreciated all the great advice and experience I see as I have spent the last month browsing through all of your posts. My thanks to all of you.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Look for someone retired. I'm 70, came from the printing/graphic arts industry but have been turning wrenches all my life on Jaguars, VW, Saabs, BMW, and Porsche ( 914, 928, 993, 987 and back to my 914-6GT tribute. I've been working at Accumoto Motorsport for two years. Love it. Best, Mark