I just found a pair of Scheel seats for my 914 that I couldn't pass up. They are thought to have never been installed, and the underside and 914 seat rails suggest that might be true. The little damage that the seats do have topside looks like it could indeed be shop wear. Whatever the case, the price was right and the corduroy looked good, so I decided to buy them.

I've sat in Scheels here and there over the years, and some seemed really nice while others were pretty tight. Well, wouldn't you know it: The one wearing the driver's side 914 seat rails is very nice but a bit tight while the one wearing passenger seat rails is loooooovely. That's funny, as taking a tape measure to the width of the seat centers suggests it should be the other way around. And that's when I started to notice the differences between the heights of the pleats in both the back rests and the seat bottoms.

But both seats have 914 headrests that exactly match the material on the bolsters and backs (which looks super original and in generally great shape...in line with the underside of the seats) and both seats came on 914 seat rails that look like they could be NOS. I know all that may not prove much, but…

I've looked through a lot of threads on Scheel seats, and looked around the internet too. Not a lot of great information so far—though maybe you know a better source? Gerrit looks to have let his website go, and the Scheel Austria site seems to be focused on later Scheel seats for Ford Escorts, etc. Any go-to sites or experts now?

I will be installing these seats in my 1973 914 in the weeks to come, and will report back about fit with the factory back pad. And while the corduroy is nice now, I am thinking about buying some of the stuff used in the 991.2 GT3 Touring, as it looks very similar but is sure to be quite a bit more durable given modern wear requirements.

Probably the best image I have found so far was here on 914world—and original bit of sales literature showing the 100, 101, 114, etc.—from this thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...9&hl=scheel

Both of my seats came with headrests like the ones seen on the "114 Sport…for the VW-Porsche." But it appears someone may have ordered the pair with one 114 Sport and one 100 Sport with 114 Sport headrests and then went to the parts counter for L&R side 914 seat rails. Neither have the adjustable backrest of the 101 Sport. Will be very curious to see how/if they fit. Wonder if that's why they ended up on a shelf in the first place...

Translations, for what they're worth (probably imperfect):

Modell 100 Sport
Wie Modell 100 Sport jedoch mit starrer Rückenlehne.

Model 100 Sport
Like model 100 Sport, however, with a rigid backrest.

Modell 101 Sport
neuentwickelter sportschalensitz mit komfort. Besonders geeignet für den sportlichen fahrer. Dieser Sitz hat eine 15 grad stufenlos verstellbare Rückenlehne.

Model 101 Sport
newly developed sport scarf seat with comfort. Especially suitable for the sporty driver. This seat has a 15 degree infinitely adjustable backrest.

Modell 114 Sport
Wie Modell 100 Sport entwickelt für den VW Porsche.

Model 114 Sport
Like model 100 Sport developed for the VW Porsche.

Pete can not wait to see what you find out.

We need a picture of the side view. It will tell if it is for a 911 or 914 .Back angle must match 914 seat.

AFAIK Scheels are not side specific.
Switch the rails to put the more comfortable seat on the drivers side.
My inserts were a bit baggy but the original material was re-fitted by a local
upholstery shop.
I'm working on restoring the original Scheel emblems that fit on the upper backrest.

I have a set of 114 seats. They have a metal frame. They fit 914’s. I don’t think any of their other seats have a proper 914 fit but the 300 racing or one very close was used on the 914-6GT. I would put the most comfortable one in the driver side. Many older porsche’s have non matching seats. Wouldn’t bother me a bit. Those seats look like they are in terrific shape. Congrats.

Besides Rory, Glenn Stazak is very knowledgeable about Scheel seats

Me too! This project may move slowly, as I think I am going to see if a local upholstery shop can do anything for the small holes on one of the bolster...even an imperfect repair would be better than redoing these, as they are so original. Just want to prevent the holes from getting bigger.

What I have found out so far is that one of these seats is one of the most comfortable seats I have sat in in any car. Definitely want to figure out what it is, and which one of these is which.



Will get such a pic!



^ Thank you! Very helpful, and I think I am going to switch the rails for sure. Saw your thread and they sure came out great. I will ask about tightening these up a hair, but they are pretty good as is—certainly nice enough to use for a while. The reality is I've never seen a set of well used Scheels where the corduroy looked good, so I am going to ask a friend at PAG if there's a way to buy some of the new corduroy they use in the current GT3 Touring. Want to take a closer look at that material, as it may provide the correct Scheel look (or close enough for me) with much better wear. Will report back, and please keep us posted on your Scheel emblem restoration. These seats look largely unused, but the even then the Scheel logos are very, very faint.



Thanks! I think I am going to do just that, and am hopeful that even if the comfier seat is the wrong seat for the 914 that I might be able to make it work on the driver's side—as I lowered the seat rails on that side by about 0.8-inch and that might help with back pad clearance. We'll see. Also see that my back pad may be sitting 0.25-inch to 0.5-inch low...going to see what's up with that, too. Would love to make these seats work in my car—and find ways to make them work for others who think it's 114 only.

First, however, it would be great to determine exactly which version each seat is.

As a side note, using the hand brake can be fun with this type of seat. Stock seats have a scallop in them.

The tracks are easily flip-flopped. I found that the puny screw holes in these seats (I used hex heads here) are almost laughably microscopic. Also, you must shim (washers) the tracks or they can stick. To the point where you can't get them back out of the car.


One of my biggest frustrations has been to get the dumb looking headrests out of my seats. I don't care for them. I've tried and tried to extricate them from the seat backs. They won't budge and they aren't rusted together at all. I suspect a set screw somewhere or a secret internal weld.

When I get these reupholstered, the headrests will be changed to something else.

Nice seats, Pete, you'll love them!!

Most of the 114’s have a fixed headrest though the one I purchased from mike fitton is removable. But that seat has been reupholstered.

Hey Pete,

Glad to see you got your Scheels! They look great! I know nothing about their fitment but based on your pictures and visual cues it looks like they are definitely different. Any markings or date stamps that may indicate model or vintage? Guess the good news is that it looks like you have your choice as to which one you want to park it in. Your passenger may or may not be as happy.

Cheers,

John

Thanks, man! Can't wait to get these figured out and into the car. When you say shims, can you elaborate? Are you stacking them for height, or? Leaving them a bit loose to get everything "happy" and then removing an tightening? Talk about a tricky endeavor.

I am familiar with what you are describing with getting aftermarket seats off the rails again. I had to employ my CSOB lightweight floor jack, towels, and wood to get the passenger side GTS Classic seat out. Thankfully, the driver's seat was easier. There has to be a better way. I wonder if removing the floor mounts and setting everything up on the seat and then adding a bit of (lithium?) grease is one way to go? May get interesting, with my lowered driver's side mount.

About those headrests....would it be helpful if I took some detailed pics of the spears on mine before installing? Have to admit your prior posts are what kept me from installing them on the seats straightaway.




Innnteresting. A running change, maybe? I have noticed vinyl headrests and corduroy headrests, though maybe this is something that happened during the moves from Scheel to Scheel-Mann to König.



Thanks! Yep, no question the two are different. Curious to see what I can figure out, as these really do look original and very nice (thanks to lack of use). I think the seller said they were numbered sequentially, but I need to double check my memory banks (email) on that. I will get some pics of the underside and straps, as they look new and do have what appear to be spray-painted numbers on the straps. Didn't see a date stamp, or much else in the way of markings, but will dig around a bit.

Mine are actually Scheel Mann
I Googled Scheel Mann and luckily came up with an original printed logo
that I used for the artwork.
Took it to a screen maker.
I'm now looking for someone who can screen it
onto black vinyl...(naugahide ?)
I'm also looking for a matching pair of submarine belt grommets.
The ones in my seats were added later and are not the same.
They're 2 1/2" x 4" outside.

I suggest that you print on new material and then wrap and glue back on the button.

I need this for my one seat for my 6 but the layout was different.

UV cure ink would be the shot.

Bob Burton

You should come to WCR, Pete.

By shims, I meant simple washers. The vinyl on the underside of the seats gets tangles in the track to track arrangement, especially as it gets to the back of the track (firewall.)

I found that washers cured the issue. Maybe two or three on each bolt?

I'm going to have mine re-covered at some point, so I'll get the bastard headrests out then.

Probably after WCR.

Would the folks at GTS Classics be a source? I know they make their own, but they may have info on some of their predecessors.

--DD

Stephan knows alot about seats.

Sorry!

I think the washers are as a spacer because the seats or mine anyway catch on the back at the point where the material is folded on each corner and won’t let the slider move all the way back to remove the seats. I used a flat bar of aluminum I think a 1/4 thick by 3/4 wide 18” long, enough to cover the puffed up corners front and rear. The front corner puffs up so the handle to release the sliders don’t have enough movement to release the slider nicely. Also on mine the metal clamp things that tied the material were holding the rails at an angle which would not let the rails slide nicely so adding the aluminum bars just off to the side enough to avoid the clamps helped there as well. Also Larmo mentioned he used the hex heads great idea because I wasn’t bright enough to think of that and I used a regular bolt head leaving little room for my fat fingers to start them, that’s experience.
Without bar catch’s material Click to view attachment
With bar holding puffy corner down Click to view attachment

the original 114 scheel for the 914 logo button was

Click to view attachment

i have 2 brand new ones FS, & one oem that the logo is worn off of (it is oem leather wrap)

PM sent on the one button.

Bob B

Okay, went and grabbed the seats for a few more pics. I think I will take the one with the most "shop wear" (a few holes) to an upholstery shop to see if they can work a little magic. Will say whatever this naugahyde sorcery on the bolsters is...is wonderful stuff. Soft and feels good to the touch, even after all these years. I wonder if it can be duplicated now? It's a lot nicer than most of the vinyl I've touched, but is definitely not leather.

In any event, tried to show the seat back angles, and documented the underside of these seats, which seems to confirm the seller's view that these were ordered together for a 914 (hence the 914 headrests in vinyl, though not pictured) and either were not used at all, or were not used long before going onto a shelf. Check the serial numbers on the straps, at 6623 & 6624...would be curious if other Scheel seat owners have seen them, or if they fade away in use? Everything about these seats makes them look like a pair from the beginning, too. The condition of everything is uniform and very original.

And some detail shots to document the finishes on this pair of seats.

These are big pics, but maybe useful to others as reference...

Last two...

There's no question that 6623, which is currently set up as the driver's side seat, is tighter in the hips. It's okay, but I tend to sit close to the wheel and "splay" my legs a bit, which would make it a bit uncomfortable. I remember this from the Konig or Scheel in one of Zwart's 914-6s. I wear 32x32 Levis, and while I fit in 6623, the more comfortable (perfect?) seat is 6624. I will probably swap the rails, but I think I may bring both to an upholsterer to see what they say about whether the frame can be pulled out a bit on 6623. If so, I may keep it as the driver's seat.

My hunch remains that one of these is a Scheel 100 while the other is a Scheel 114 for the 914—but would love to hear from others on that. I also wonder if I am going to have to follow Larmo's lead on moving to a Perlon back wall. We'll see...

On Saturday last week my first good spirited drive to the coast through the mountains and back with my seats installed and I couldn’t be happier. There comfortable wile keeping you in place! Seat height is perfect best seats I’ve ever had in a 914 without a doubt.Click to view attachment

My seats have serial numbers on them too.

I'm not sure if they are consecutive though....?

They mystery with these seats (mostly in that one is more comfortable than the other) continues.

Stopped by Franzini Bros, a well-liked upholstery show around here, to discuss addressing the bolster damage. Looking at pics, one of the brothers noted that one or both may have been opened up due to the hooks in different colors—noting that a lot of shops don't have the right tools and you end up with rusty hooks. Back home and looking at the hooks...the "rusty" ones appear to be copper, while the others are stainless or galvanized. Going to bring both over to get some eyes that "see" things with seats I'm sure I'll miss. Beginning to wonder if these are both 114s, and one was widened. If so, the other is getting widened. On the other hand, the seat back and seat bottom "breaks" in the corduroy are different.

On a separate note, he said Scheels always were a cut below the standard setter of the era (Recaro), and that the problem with the corduroy on Scheels getting loose really starts with the underlayment. Interested to see what he sees and says about this pair of Scheels...as I am with Wes: Period Scheels are VERY comfortable, and I like the big bolsters and quality just fine. Also like that they are period correct.

Thank you for posting this pic, Wes. The seats look great in your car—and your driver's seat exactly matches the one I got. Same headrest, and same breaks in the corduroy. My passenger seat is definitely different when it comes to the seat center seams, and width.

It makes sense that if one was customized, it ended up a little different. Upholstery shops sometimes do what they want to do. Also, I believe that 114's all had fixed headrests so both of your seats could have been modified.

I have a pair waiting for my car to get done. I don't think they is a better look or feel than the 114's in a 914. It''s one of those things that transforms the car.

I've been away for a couple weeks.
Bob do you know a source for the proper paint/dye ?.....in small quantity ?
I tried spray paint and a squeege to very bad effect.
For the button I can think of a couple ways to go.
The originals had a twist wire attachment. There is access behind the upper
cushion to attach.
Most likely I'd fab a sandwich of aluminum or fiberglass with the wire in
between then wrap it with the silk screened material.
TIA
Rory

I agree with your upholstery guy......the person who rejuvenated my seats added
a thin layer of foam or foam backed material to my cushions to renew
proper shape.

I have the last iteration of these when they became Konig, I'd had a set of the corduroy seats in a GT clone I'd sold and bought this set right before they all disappeared. There are 'slight' differences but very similar to the Scheels... The fit into the back pad and the ability to use the factory seat sliders was the big sell. The later ones had adjustable head rests, but are notorious for getting stuck all the way down (like mine are now ) These are the all vinyl version, without sub belt holes. The stitching pattern on the Konig's seemed a bit different, they broke up the thigh area with an additional seam. To me, adding a great pair of seats is as big a change as adding a sway bar to a non-swaybar'd car. Note how well the passenger seat fits into the back pad
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Visited the upholstery shop yesterday, and the expert's take was that one of these seats—6623—was probably redone at some point.

His further take was that the reason 6623 is tighter—despite some of its measurements in the following pictures being wider than the same measurements on 6624—is that someone may have changed and/or lowered its seat cushion. However: it's 6624's seat bottom that looks very different in terms of pleating when compared to Scheel seats posted by others...in that it really doesn't have pleats and has multiple seams that don't seem to do much. We'll know more when they go back in for 6624 to be redone, but any input is welcome!

I will probably end up having 6624 redone to deal with the damage to one of its bolsters, but I am going to swap the rails and try it on the driver's side first.

In any event, I took some pics to document these seats in the event it might help someone else. If anyone can provide thoughts on whether these are both 114s or not, I'd be thankful for that input. But I think the real upshot is...any Scheel is an old seat now, and it stands to reason that, whatever they are, they might not have started out that way. Put another way...is an old redo the "new original"?

And the seat delivered set up as a passenger seat...

Finally, some photos attempting to compare back of seats for angle.

They look similar or identical to me—but the way these seats sit so differently tells me one old Scheel is not the same from another old Scheel. Suspect 6624 would be a "Goldilocks" seat for a lot of people out there, where 6623 would be (way) too tight for many more.

Can any of the seat gurus confirm if 114's all had fixed headrests? If that is the case, then both have been redone.

Other question I face, and would love input on from others with Scheels, is whether to stick with the correct Scheel vinyl (both the vinyl and corduroy appear to be available on http://scheel-mann.com/seats/upholstery) or upgrade to leather if I am going to spend $$ on the labor anyway. But then…it's two seats instead of one.

Has anyone upgraded old Scheels to leather bolsters only? Was it worthwhile, if the seat centers are cloth? (I am thinking about comfort in summer heat, but not sure bolsters matter as much as seatback.)

Also been thinking about the "modern corduroy" Porsche developed for the 991.2 GT3 Touring, which is sure to be much better when it comes to wear/color/safety/etc due to today's requirements. If it can be sourced, that is.

My Scheels are done with the "grainy" early 914 style vinyl bolsters.

I don't think I would do leather, but to each his own.

I was thinking of doing an extra "bump" on the seat frames to make these look more like the authentic GT seats. Maybe not worth the trouble.

Also, I've always wanted to remove my headrests but to no avail. They are in there quite firmly and will finally be extricated when the seats are stripped for re-upholstery.

Extra bump could be cool visually, though I wonder if it would impact comfort? Have to say Scheels are lovely, with one of these two offering perfect comfort + support—up there with the very best from Porsche, which to me remains the late 1980s/early 1990s sport seat as used in the 911, 959S, and 964 RSA and particularly when faced in cloth. I think 944/928/968 used a similar seatback, but I never loved the seating position in some of those cars. Still some of the best seats Porsche ever equipped, and seem to fit a variety of body types really well.

Your trouble with your headrests has kept me from installing mine! Sounds like you aren't alone, so they'll go on after the seats go in, I guess. Wonder if a little anti-seize (or?) would be a good idea.

I'll find out after WCR when I take them for a re-do.

It's an issue that has vexed me for a while.

Scheels in, swapped the rails to put the more comfortable seat on the driver's side, then spent some time with the rails to align everything after removing a floor mount assembly to dial everything in per recommendations here (thank you!).

Fit nice, and they're VERY comfortable, too. Nit picks: They fit the back pad okaaaay, but not perfectly. Bit squeaky, vinyl to vinyl, but I had that issue with GTS seats also. Trying to remember if the factory seats did it. Also, it seems like there's a bit less legroom...am I alone on that? As for the materials, between the wear and some other ideas , I can see I'll be redoing these at some point. Seems to be a common thread with Scheels...

Can't wait to go for a drive in these.

Many moons ago, someone asked for photos of how my driver's seat was lowered. Getting the last pair of seats out wasn't fun, as I didn't take the time to get the rails aligned as well as they could be, but I took the opportunity to grab some photos of the setup today.

You can see that the cross bar under the front of the seat was cut out and "stepped down" with thicker metal. This was done at Genoa Racing in Novato, CA at the same time that the Engman chassis stiffening kit was added. I lost the ability to change the seat angle (which doesn't bother me, as it's pretty limited in the 914, and not bad as is), but dropped about 0.8 inch. Well worth it, imo...

First pic is the stock seat mount, with angle adjuster. The rest are the modded setup, which was made from a stock setup plus a bit of fab work.