Wow, with all the D-Jet issues being posted lately and owners pulling their hair out trying to identify the problems to repair, I am very thankful to have two simple and reliable Dellorto carbs on my car. Yes, I would love the smoother experience of F.I. but wondering if it is really worth the aggravation.

Ansbacher

I think it’s time for someone to figure out a 914-owner-price-point EFI setup with ITBs

One that can also be used on 356s

Apples and Oranges

Those D-Jet parts are 40+ years old. A lot of those problems can be traced back to old and brittle wiring.

I had the same amount of trouble (if not more) with my dual 40 webers on the 2056 than i had with the D-Jet on the 1.7L.

And i would never ever trade the FI on my 3.6L for carbs. There simply is no comparison. Like i said, Apples and Oranges

I agree. Anything (or anyone) over 40 that has been ignored is going to need significant maintenance (and perhaps cosmetic surgery). I replaced / rebuilt just about every D-Jet component including putting in one of Jeff Bowlsby's wiring harnesses.

Runs like a champ now

Kind of like saying you are glad to have bias ply tires because a few folks are having issues with their 40 year old radials.

Wait until until you have E15 in those carbs and the bias ply tires.

No shortage of non-ethanol gas here in Florida. My carbs stay pristine and happy.

Why am i not surprised you are in Florida? No elevation changes to speak of.


What was that annoying commercial about the "set it and forget it"?

Here ya go... not sure what you mean by “914”owner price point.

$3500...

http://thedubshop.com/dual-throttle-body-f...gnition-type-4/

D-jet was probably one of the first mainstream "electronic" fuel injection systems ever used. Seems like the 40 year old wiring would be easy enough to fix with a new injection harness. It cant be comparable to a modern fuel injection system. The MPS is pretty rudimentary compared to anything modern. Point triggered injectors ... cars don't even have distributors anymore. If all the parts are fresh it can work perfect but it doesn't take much to cause a difficult to diagnose problem. It takes some patience and dedication to keep it sorted and running.

My '73 has these..... I worked on the linkage yesterday...

My 75 has FI.

That's how they came, so that's what they've got.


Click to view attachment

There already is systems out there. The problems is that most 914 owners are to cheap to take the step and start enjoying their cars.

http://thedubshop.com/dual-throttle-body-f...gnition-type-4/

One problem is that the owner needs to be equally interested and able to troubleshoot and do the mechanical work regardless if the FI system is 40 years old or brand new.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtsmebEX25k&t=37s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9rcczRTG_M

I'm totally green/dumb about the D-jet/carb matter, but did purchase a full, working D-jet system off another '76 for a future install if I get the carbs tweaked correctly and know the rest of the engine is solid.

But I can tell you all this: I had a long talk with Eric at PMB Performance when ordering my rear brake calipers and we got into talking about my eventually installing the D-jet system. Most here know that PMB are one of the best at restoring 914's and they know the D-jet system intimately.

He said up until recently, their advice was indeed to get a 914 back to the original fuel injection. But no more. Their position has changed. They said it's getting impossible to find good working parts.

For what it's worth.

GN

getting good parts is becoming more difficult but... a properly running stock FI is a beautiful thing. Starts on the first try, runs smooth and quiet and gets great gas mileage. I can understand it becomes cost prohibitive for a shop to spend the time and money tracking down old parts when there is a budget involved and no guarantee that the 50 year old parts will work or keep working but for us hobby enthusiasts, it can be worth the time and trouble. Especially with a crew of experts just a World site away.

Mep -

I'm a long way off from this, but as I am experienced with old FI systems (I'm an electrical engineer, and actually find the old ones simple, cut my teeth on '70's Volvo's), if my engine turns out strong (Porsche dealer who installed carbs said one cylinder has low compression), I just may give the D-jet a try, first pre-testing each component as much as possible.

I'd also want a complete new harness as that would surely eliminate a large percentage of potential problems. And you can get new/replacement injectors, correct?

What does a new harness cost, and where can they be found?

TIA

GN

This...…

Also have rebuilt two MPS units (to adjust off the car and easily switch out) messed with the AAR and CHT sensor. repaired the plenum, new hoses everywhere. Everything except a new FI harness. and if it becomes questionable I'll just pony up the bucks and get one.

Right now it starts easily, idles smooth, (if a little high) and runs great.
Wouldn't have it any other way.

Sure the carbs look nicer, the D-jet is crowded with a lot mysterious looking hoses and wiring. but it's stock and it works.

I like to show off by standing outside the car, putting the key in, turning it and it starts. no pumping of gas pedal and hoping it catches. just turn the key and it's running.

http://bowlsby.net/914/WiringHarnesses/

My 2056 came with dual carbs and runs well. The simplicity of carbs when running well is nice.

I do have a complete 2L FI setup and this thread has me thinking about swapping to FI.

Minor

When I rebuilt my motor (2056) a few years ago, I put in a mild carb cam (G cam from European Motorworks).


If I someday want to install an EFI system, could I do so with that setup? What are the drawbacks?

[quote name='Beeliner' date='Jun 14 2019, 02:56 AM' post='2722480']
[quote name='MarkV' post='2722474' date='Jun 13 2019, 10:39 PM']

My '73 has these..... I worked on the linkage yesterday...

Click to view attachment
[/quote]

Get a CSP center bellcrank, it's much better than any cross bar

What experiences were reported of those who converted to from D-jet/carbs to CIS from VW Rabbit et al? Seems like a reasonable alternative that's a bit newer, low cost, and should better deal with altitude changes.
Andys

914rubber is making new engine harnesses with new, not recycled, connectors. They look great.
Send used injectors to mr injector. He makes them look and work like new for $17.50 each.

A major problem with FI use and tuning is that many of us non-mechanic types don't have a ready resource for understanding of trouble shooting and maintaining these antique systems. The use of terms like CIS, MPS, and AAR type acronyms here on the site are often a foreign language to many of us. I would value a comprehensive troubleshooting reference that doesn't use code words that are not understood by we novice wrenchers.

You mean something like this?
Paul Anders DJet troubleshooting

http://lowbugget.com/2b.html
not top performnce, but cheep,everyone has a weber 2bbl manifold laying sround , right ? just need to warm up the runners somehow..

BINGO, I copied the link for future reference, thanks!

I think a lot of the "problems" people report with D-Jet are because they take a piecemeal approach to fixing 40 year old stuff.

When I dropped my engine I went all in. New MPS, new injectors which I replaced the braide lines on and had properly crimped, all new vacuum lines, new wiring harness, etc. It has purred ever since and runs great.

I see a lot of posts where someone replaces a single, 40 year old, leaky injector and then are surprised when another one craps out.

I view it like the shift bushings on the 914. You can replace them piece at a time and it will still shift like crap or do them all from shifter back to tranny and life will be good. Old stuff is old stuff.

I am loving this thread! I'm in a similar boat as @flipb . Over 30 years ago I got sick of being stranded by my deteriorating D-Jet and tore the car apart for a complete rebuild. It was pre-Internet and back then THE "upgrade" for a 914/4 was to ditch the FI and install dual carbs. I bought a Weber kit and installed a mild carb cam in the case. Then life got in the way and the project was mothballed to the present. Now I'm finishing that build and with a carb cam in the case and the still dilapidated FI components stored in a box, I decided to move forward with the carbs for now as the quickest path to a running motor. Once the car is back on the road, I'll start working through the old EFI components for a likely eventual return to stock EFI.

There is a lot of info about the virtues of stock EFI vs. carbs and other than the uglyitis the D-Jet brings to the engine bay, I'm sold. There isn't much info about how long or bumpy the road is to restoring these tired old systems though so I'm soaking up all the wisdom here.

When I bought mine it came with Dellortos. My first order of business at the time was to round up injection to convert it back. I bought a complete D-jet system. I sent the harness to Bowlsby and had him replace boots and look it over. I sent the manifolds, runners and air cleaner off to be powder coated. But then I drove the car for a while with the carbs and discovered how well it runs. All the injector parts are in a box in my garage but I seriously doubt I will ever convert it... maybe the next owner will do it.

I have just the opposite opinion from Ansbacher. Betty's 914 has the original L-Jet on it and it runs great. Our factory six with webers, on the other hand, ran like crap. Hard starting, flooding, wouldn't idle, coughing and spitting, etc. I went over everything on the engine to make sure it was right before I started on the carbs.

To be completely honest, I don't like carbs. Even D-Jet injection is a step up from carbs. I even considered the idea of hiding a megasquirt system in the air cleaner to make it run better. But for originality, i bit the bullet and took the carbs to a pro. Found out that in the past a bunch of internal parts on the carbs were replaced, and they were way out of adjustment. Wrong venturis. No two idle jets were the same, a mix of main jets and emulsion tubes, and completely non-functional accelerator pumps. I got them back, and after some tweaking, It runs 1000% better. But we have no way to get real gas here, and the ethanol really screws up the carbs. I still have a small flat spot off idle. I have increased the idle jet sizes, and I am going to remove the accelerator pump check valves and replace them with new ones without the bleed hole to increase the accelerator pump injection volume.

All that crap because of the crappy gas here.

In my opinion, FI is much better than carbs. Even almost 50 year old FI.

When I got my 914 in 1995 it had 40 mm Dellortos which I fought until it ran just ok. Cold mornings weren't fun living in Seattle so I bought a complete Djet setup from the local VW Porsche Dealer's junkyard. Well back then info sources on it were limited to that old Digi net site but I was able to tune it so it ran great like it was new. Still running that same setup with more tuning on my 2056 w/Raby 9550 cam and wouldn't go back to carbs for anything.

The low compression issue is easily resolved with a top end rebuild. Stock FI is a thing of beauty. But there are no shortcuts when installing the setup. Send your harness to Jeff first. Then send your harness to Jeff. THEN start testing everything as you assemble the system. You won't regret it.

I have my complete stock 40+ year old FI system and I love it. It’s in a sealed Rubbermaid container on a shelf in my shed exactly where it belongs. My car has a Redline 40 Weber kit and a Petronix distributor. Looks and sounds cool and started and ran great this morning when I went for an early morning cruise. I don’t have time or desire to try and keep an antique FI system alive. No matter what you do it’s old and only getting older.

So there are two kinds of people in the 914 World. Those that love D-jet and those that don't love D-jet. Or conversely those that love Carburetors and those that don't love Carburetors.

Regardless if you have carbs or FI you need to learn how it works or find someone who does and pay them to fix any issues. Well setup and maintained carbs will work well and same thing for old or newe fuel injection systems. Neglected maintenance will cause issues with either. A modern FI can be a bit easier to fix since you can read the fault codes on your laptop and get a starting point.