Hi all, I am new here. So wished I found this site years ago. Lots of good info!!!! Any way, I am getting a lot of smoke on de-acceleration after my 1976 2.0L has warmed up. I was thinking my oil rings were sticking. Also thinking maybe valve guides? The engine was rebuilt in 2000 and I really only drove it until 2005 as a daily driver. The transmission went bad and it wasn't really driven. House and 2 teenage daughters came first. I would putt around at least once a month. I could go on and on so longer story short I have been driving it since 2015 and it has been smoking like I said. A little on acceleration not bad though. Any info would help. Other than that it runs great and my 914 is going into the shop soon for new paint so I am going to pull the engine and transmission. (PS I originally posted this in the wrong forum. duh)
Click to view attachment

Hi Mitch, I have a 76 2.0 also, and it also smoked a little on deceleration. And yes, the smoke is probably from worn rings or valve guides. Much has been said in this forum about motor oils for our cars, so I won't go over it again. Try using some Brad Penn 20/50 Racing oil, ordered online. When I switched to that oil, my engine's smoking stopped completely. The oil is not cheap, but compared to an engine rebuild, it's chump change.
This oil has higher levels of ZDPP to protect older engines. Also, use only a Royal Purple 20-253, Mahle OC-28, or Mann W920/17 oil filter, also ordered online. Change oil filter from below, on passenger side of engine block near firewall. PAN PLUG TORQUE IS ONLY 16 ft/lbs, and SUMP PLUG IS ONLY 9.4 ft/lbs. Any more torque will cause BIG damage to engine. Install a new crush washer (AutoAtlanta has them) on the pan plug, with the washer seam TOWARD the bolt head. NEVER let an oil change shop do the oil change, as they are clueless and will over torque the plug and damage the engine.

Don't go more than 7 ft lbs on the drain plug bolt.

Sweet thanks. Going online to get the correct oil and filter today!

This is a garage topic and admin will surely move it there where you'll get more exposure to people who can help.

Decel smoke points to valve seats to me, but the real Type4 experts will help.

My concern is this may lead to a dropped valve seat (or may be in progress). Not uncommon after so many years. If they let go completely, it gets catastrophic. Proceed with caution.

Thanks for the info!

Although my 2.0 had great compression when I bought it, it also had a lot of oil burning on deceleration. Turned out to be valve guides. Car was also repainted once the drive train was pulled, so that's a good way to approach it.

Good luck with this project.

Oil and filter won't fix this. Not sure why someone would suggest that as an answer. Those are band aids on something more important. Take it for what you will. If the OP is forthright, start doing compression and leakdown tests and report back.

Valve guides and valve stem seals.

Charlie

I've never seen valve stem seals on a type 4 motor ... (type 1 or type 2 either).

They're seen on type 616 (912) and 911 motors though.

Click to view attachment

Yep, this is what I was afraid of. No biggy, motor and trans are coming out for painting anyway.

I will be changing to the new oil though. Compression testing this weekend. I will keep everyone posted

Did you check if you have pressure in the crankcase? I cracked a piston (see picture) and it smoked up the track pretty good.
While the car is running remove the oil cap and see if you have white smoke coming from the filler tube. From my experience it means a cracked ring or piston. It may sound terrible but i'd rather deal with a bum piston over s dropped valve seat any day!

I also had it when the crankcase was over filled once

"Excuse you but if someone drops a valve seat I'm gonna gobble it right up thank you very much!" -Mr Piston.

https://i.imgur.com/9dZ58pb.jpg

"Absolutely delicious, won't you try some as well, Mister Cylinder Head?"

https://i.imgur.com/cpcilMi.jpg

strange how some have mentioned that ,change the oil by any means and go out and give it a good HARD run.
Get someone else drive it as you follow in another car if the smoke is bad under heavy throttle, then its rebuild time,smoke on overrun is far less of an issue than that under acceleration.

NO white smoke!!!!

Smoke on overrun is a classic symptom of needing new valve guides.

No stem seals on these motors.

Rings will usually smoke under load, not on overrun.

--DD

Thanks Dave, I am hearing more and more that the valve guides are suspect. By the way just had my 914 smogged and passed with flying colors!! woohoo!!

It did smoked bad under load. All crankcase smoke.
I didn't see the notice the tail pipe mention in the description.
I'm guessing valve guides.

Changed to the pen racing oil and my car runs way cooler!! Thanks bro! Also way less smoking. I do need to do my valve guides but not this year. My car is going in for paint finally after 22 years.

“Changed to the pen racing oil and my car runs way cooler!! Thanks bro! Also way less smoking. I do need to do my valve guides but not this year. My car is going in for paint finally after 22 years.” flag.gif

Here’s why Rand....

UPDATE: compression is looks solid across cylinders. (1)138 -(2)137 - (3)135 - (4)138. Getting rid of points and condenser today with electronic ignition.

Well a lot of things happened over the last time I wrote, started taking my car apart. Lost number 3 valve seat back in December of 2020 so I took the motor out and putting new barrels/pistons/heads on. I have my throttle body with Phil. I heard good things about him. Funny my car was running perfect. My truck lost a lifter so I put it in the shop and had a new LS motor put in. I was thinking, cool I can drive my 914 as my daily driver while the truck was getting fixed. I had my wife follow me in her car so I could check for smoke. So I have a video of the car running great, no smoke but before we got home I stopped at the parts store to get brake fluid. Came out and tried to start the car and BOOM, big backfire, then clunking noise. I new right away that I either sucked a valve or lost a valve seat, and sure enough it was #3 intake valve seat. Well the car sat for 3 months before I did anything I was so bummed. Just dropped a ton of money in my truck. I want to thank all you 914 guys out there because you have given me the confidence to dive into this project, which is almost ready for sealer. p.s. I did weld up the hell hole and it came out ok. won't be a show car but it will outlast me! Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment Click to view attachment

Ditto. The 1.7 uses only about 3.7 quarts. Porsche OEM 20W50 oil is a good way to go too.

ok just about ready to drive

after taking everything a part. months of sanding and prep work. finally

I remember at one point I said to my self "What have I done?!"

Sand Sand Sand

Weld lead body fill

Nice progress. Do yourself a huge favor and remove the bumpers, lights, rockers, strip the vinyl from the sail panels. Prepare those areas well and your paint job will go to the next level. Be sure to prepare the fender well lips too. Seems the inner lip is often over looked and after the car is painted it really shows up. Also the bottoms of the doors and fenders- the parts you really do not see unless you lay on the ground. Little bit of a pain to prepare if you do not have a lift or the car up on blocks, but well worth the effort.

Also, please carefully tape any areas you do not want to get paint on. Overspray is a dead give away of a low budget, hap-hazard job. Buy good quality tape (3M) and get a good roll of painters paper so the paint does not bleed through. Tape tightly so overspray does not get into the trunks, interior, etc. Do not assume having the trunk closed will keep overspray from contaminating the interior of the trunk. Tape and paper the inside of the trunk then close the trunk. Be sure to tape off any holes that overspray will enter. Locks, mirrors, door handles, emblems, trim etc. Tape them off from the back. Be sure to clean all those areas throughly first then tape. That way when you unmask, you don't have to then clean them with fresh paint in the area.

Paint work is 90% about the prep work really. Spraying color is relatively simple with good equipment and a bit of practice. Which brings me to another point, if you have not sprayed cars before, try to find and old hood, door, what ever to practice on first. Air pressure settings and the distance from the panel as well as speed at which you move are all pretty critical to a good job. Check between coats for any contaminants, dirt in the paint. Have some really fine sandpaper/scuff pad to clean those spots up before you apply the next coat. You would be surprised how much junk can get in the paint if you don't have a paint booth.

I painted my 1st 914 in my friend's garage. We cleaned the garage really well first, blew it out to get all of the cobwebs, etc. out. Took everything we could out of the garage for maximum room and to avoid any overspray getting on stuff. We then draped the walls with cheap painter's plastic tarps to cover the walls and make the garage as clean as possible. Also propped a residential fan into a garage window and then sealed the rest of the window with plastic to suck air/dust out of the garage as I painted. I borrowed a few rolling lights from my cousin's body shop to make sure I had no shadows when painting. Then the next day we wet the floor down with a hose before we began spraying to keep dust from blowing up off the floor as I walked around shooting color. Then I wiped the car down 3 times with wax and grease remover before finally applying color. I used a new rag each time and then finally a tack cloth. Don't forget a respirator and a paint suit. That way you keep your lungs clean and a paint suit keeps junk from falling off your clothing as you work. The end result was a terrific paint job that looked like glass once I color sanded, cut and polished. The spraying was the easy part.

Click to view attachment

Thanks, I actually did remove the sail panels, and went to my local upholstery outlet. UFO and bought the vinyl. I have to color sand the car still as I am no painter. The primer coats all came out sweet so I thought I had this painting thing down, but found out the primer is much more forgiving than paint. Also, my dad accidently opened the garage door on my second coat of paint and a bunch of junk fell on my car. I didn't notice it until after my third coat dried and I opened up the garage and saw the junk in my paint. No worries though, I didn't build my car to be a show car. Just want it to last another 20 years for me to enjoy.

I would do a leak down test. It's most likely bad exhaust valve guides. You will hear and maybe feel the air coming out of the tail pipe during the test, if it is bad exhaust valve guides.

You Steve, I lost a valve seat in number three last December so I decided to rebuild the whole car and had new barrels and heads put on. I let the car sit about 4 months before deciding to go all in. It took about 4 months of weekends and some weekdays to get the car finished. I still have some color sanding, finish the windshield squirters and headlights. But I have the car back on the road and enjoying it!!! Thanks for the advice.

The lead body thing... I appreciate. But. That metal needs to be fresh steel to be strong, not just filled with lead. Lead is used for finish work, not structural work.

Good work. Nice job. You're braver than I am.

Understood, did weld the area cut out

Concur

Well, I guess I should have started another thread because I really goofed this one up. I started a couple of years ago asking about my smokey car, but since then I had to rebuild the motor due to me loosing #3 valve seat. I rebuilt the complete top end including barrels and did all the body work. I put in a couple of photos completely out of any kind of order. I welded the hell hole and other rusty problem spots. This is by no means a show car or complete original resto. I did my best with the money my wife would let me spend on the money pit (as she calls it) It looks a million time better if you look at some of the before photos. Again, should have started a rebuild thread. Sorry I really am not very good a posting or body work. Thanks to all the advice you guys are great.