There has been talk about the possible ills of welding up the seams that are between the fender and the part infront of the windshield. There has been cracking due to stress for some. I am interested in hearing about failures, AND successes. What do you think made yours work/fail?

I recall that Joe (914RS) did it several months ago. It might not have been him but there was a thread for sure.

-Jeff

i think the success is going to be totally dependant on the condition of the chassis, how the car is driven, and how stiff the suspension is...size of tires would have an impact as well.....

QUOTE (Dr Evil @ Jun 27 2005, 09:47 PM)

I am interested in hearing about failures, AND successes.

let me put it this way, i have only seen ONE car where it hadn't cracked, and that car is #4 ...

every other car i have seen with this mod has the seam cracked in some way or the other.

and IMHO, when cracked, it looks like
Andy

Well..... I dont think mine cracked yet... Im not a good welder, but ive put some serious stress on the body... Nope just checked.. no cracks yet... I dont think I used much filler on it.. Welded over.. then grinded down smooth. Same thing on the windshield washer jets.

Im running big tires, lots of hp, and lots of flex...

But i've only had it like this for 6 months or less...

Andrew

Ive heard if you lead it, it works, BUT I wouldnt put a brand new paint job to the test. It makes sense that lead is a little more flexible, but still, how much is it worth to you?

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 27 2005, 11:25 PM)

i think the success is going to be totally dependant on the condition of the chassis, how the car is driven, and how stiff the suspension is...size of tires would have an impact as well.....

I am going to err on the side of caution. I have stiff springs, a front sway bar, and 255 tires with a fresh 2.7sc....if it'll break, I would make it.

Crap, I elimintated that seem with out ever knowing that there was a chance of it cracking. Oh well

A good friend of mine did mine about six years ago,they were done old school (leaded). I`ve only been driving the car about a year and a half. NO cracks. 195/60/15 tires

I did that to a car I did a while back. I didn't fill the groove with weld I actually cut the area out and welded in a piece of sheetmetal. then I didn't hae to use but a tiny amount of filler. No cracking yet.

i cut the tops of my fenders out due to rust, and welded a plate in the fender and seam welded it to the cowl. So far it is fine except in the corners where i used alittle body filler to shape the corner slightly and it has a small crack in each corner. I drive hard and have 205's. Had i used maybe lead or welded the corners up alittle more and grinded the shape in w/ less filler, it would prob be fine. The ones i hear of cracking used alot of bondo or brazed it.

My car had it done by the po, was a track car stiff as hell and running a 3.2, I am sure it was done long long ago, no cracks.

they say if you triangulate the cowl so it doesnt flex as much it wont crack anymore. Dont ask me who "they" are.

QUOTE (xsboost90 @ Jun 28 2005, 04:54 AM)

they say if you triangulate the cowl so it doesnt flex as much it wont crack anymore. Dont ask me who "they" are.

just do like my DAPO did... paint over those NLA seals...

Any updates from you folks who welded up the seams.......any cracks yet???

I really want to weld mine up, but don't feel like f-in up an expensive paint job!

It wasn't me. I did weld a fender on Liz's car, but the seams are still there.

I don't really like the look because 99% are accomplished by shoving bondo in the seam. When I see a car like that, my first thought is 'crap paint job'.

If you want to weld it, I think it could be done 'correctly' to achieve the look you want. The weld bead is much harder than the surrounding metal and the gap is significant to just 'fill' with weld. I would remove about .5" to each side and weld in a filler panel. I think this would allow flexibility without cracking.

Dont have any cracks yet. No.

This topic was discussed last summer. Most agreed welding the 914 gap was not a good thing, as the factory put it there for a purpose (flex). I have a friend who welded the seam on his Datsun 2000, and it cracked. It looks terrible cracked. Eddy

EvilEd did it on the GT turbo when he built a few years ago, I have had the car 2 years still no cracks.

Thought about putting an extra piece in the corner to beef it and follow the lines of the hood better. If I did this it would be a traingular section on top with a curved section below welded into the trim channel.

Sorry for sh*tty graphic

Bump.......................................................

So for those of you who did this years ago................

Is your crack showing?

Or is your crack not showing?

Almost done with the (miserable) sandblasting and thinking of doing this mod.

Thanks

The PO of my car did this 4 years ago based or receipts that came with the car. I'm not sure if it was done with filler or welded. So far, no cracks. He drove the car on dirt roads and I drive the car daily.



Above is a picture from a carshow at work last week. Mine is the car in the foreground. The silver one in the background is an original '71 Six that is owned by a co-worker

Didn't the 916 come from the factory with these seams welded?

I am thinking of doing this too because both sides of my car are rotted
big time there. I will try to build up the panels below the way they were
done at the factory and then weld in an inch or two filler panel on top.

Seems like it would avoid leaks and rusting down the road.

John

I did mine. I really like the look of the smooth cowl to fender seam. I leaded mine about 15 years ago. It cracked. I hate to admit it but I could see I didn't get a good bond because of all the seam sealer under the fender sucking up the heat as I tried to flow the lead. Then when I re-did the the car in 04 I rushed to get it done for the WCC. I used All-Metal aluminum filler. It cracked before I made it to the event. Then when I went to re-do it again for 05 I had it ground out and ready to weld. When I can home from an out of town trip I discovered someone had stolen my welder while I was out of town. So, All-Metal again. Cracked right away. This time, I have a welder again and it will be fine. Mc Mark posted some photos awhile ago showing a car he did. He bridged the gap with the old tried and true method of a welding rod. It does work and you can do this without cracking.

I'm almost ready to paint my car, the body shop filled the seam with filler without my permission, so I need to remove the filler and install a new seal. How difficult is is to remove the filler; I'm not a body guy; any suggestions? The body shop is out of business, so I am stuck repairing what I got. Thanks Mike

Its going to be difficult to take it out and leave an even edge. the filler won't be that difficult yo cut, but I'm sure they spread it out over the entire top surface and then sanded it to a feathered edge. The good news is that the T mold will cover a bit of the edge on both sides. I'd be prepared to refinish the top surface.

Good luck, thaking that step backwards always hurts, but its the right thing to do. You DON'T want to be fixing a crack after the paint is applied.

Here's the one I did. I haven't heard of any cracking, but I also don't know if this car is even driven much...
Click to view attachment Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
If I may add some information only to map the problem with flexing in this area.
This area is constructed out of overlapping pieces, none of which are secured in three planes. The cowling is secured along the forward wall, only a couple of places forward in the channel and the forward edge is secured with only two vertical 25mm "c" channels. their relationship allows the flexing everyone is talking about. Almost all interfaces are hinge points.
If you look underneath the cowling toward the a-pillar you will see a doubler plate behind the hinge, and a smaill triangular piece with a structural stiffening bend along its' length. These are the only added structural pieces that the factory supplied.
The twisting of the frame during a hard right will try to compress the cowl on the right side and lift the left side.
If one wants reduce the flex, it will have to be from below and inboard-outboard
around the structure. Filling the seam is a cosmetic approach. Cutting, adding, and bridging with metal along the surface reduces the flex, but the cause in below. All of the intersecting pieces have to be tied to together and the gusseting in a perpendicuar plane will even be stronger.
Just my two cents...

Thanks, I'll start removing tonight, good to find out now then later. Mike

I prefer just to clean that channel out and hit it with rust-preventative treatment and some good paint. The line isn't so bad. Go with the easiest way to take care of it. JMO.

I have huge respect for some of the guys who have filled it... So no digs. But... Why?

Isn't gobbing that seam kinda kludgey? I care about making sure that area won't rust and will take care of THAT. But I don't care to bridge the gap with filler that wasn't meant to be there. Poopy! I mean, really. Why?? If that line really offends you so much, then I guess you can deal with the potential paint nightmare maintenance issues to appease it. Bah. Why? Stirrin' the pot tonight.....

I sandblasted the seam and then laid a length of welding rod in the seam as a filler. I then MIG welded across the fender/rod/cowl interface, and added a light coat of body filler. Subsequently, the paint hasn't cracked in 10 years. (In the interest of full disclosure, though, I should say that the car wasn't driven for the first 9 of those years. It now has about 3K miles since the paint job.)

I'm convinced that the factory kept the seam because it freed them from the tyranny of perfect panel alignment when assembling the chassis. The fender beading camouflages any slight misalignment in the cowl and fender. When I welded up my fender seam, I noticed that the top surface of the right fender was ~2mm lower than the cowl. You never noticed the imperfection with the fender bead in place.

DAPO welded up the seams on my 914.
DACO did not get a PPI before buying the Lemon.
Seams/no seams, I didn't know any better then.

22 years later, 230K miles later, seams have never cracked(street car, no track events), but DAPO did zero rust-proofing on the underside of seam welds. So, about 10 years after I bought the car the passenger side seam rusted from inside out!