http://teamtac.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi?actio...isplay&num=2626


Should I tell you guys not to post? I think I did OK in representing the brand? You can't argue that the Miata is not a better car, you can only argue that the teener has more soul.

Kill the Miata, Kill the Miata, always makes me think of the Bugs Bunny cartoon..kill the wabbit kill the wabbit.

they hate the 914 for a reason...
if you'd get your ass spanked by a 30 year old ugly car, wouldn't you hate it too

I can argue the better car point, since I've owned both. I've had 2 914s and one Miata. I have one 914 and no Miatas now. If I had a choice to buy a '90 Miata or another 914 (about the same money for nice condition), I'd choose the 914, no question about it.

Both make lousy ONLY cars. Both can be modified extensively. Miatas are GREAT turbo-charged (really stout overbuilt engines). Both make good racing cars. Miatas have very nice shifters, and engines that really NEED nice shifters.

But the 914 handles better, and equal amounts of money spent on both to improve the handling will push the 914 even farther in front.

There used to be one pesky Miata where I hang out...now there are 2. Granted, I can't drive worth shit , but the cars are not nearly as prepped as mine.....both are in CSP.
Don't fool yourself about the capabilities of Miatas. Reality is a bitch.

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jun 28 2005, 06:13 PM)

There used to be one pesky Miata where I hang out...now there are 2. Granted, I can't drive worth shit , but the cars are not nearly as prepped as mine.....both are in CSP. Don't fool yourself about the capabilities of Miatas. Reality is a bitch.

Ain't it the truth! I got FOUR pesky Miaters in my CSPie...

Plus this EM wanker!

HAHAHA!

It looks like a time-release asshole capsule.

154... where's my pdr?


M

My 1800 lb 115 hp Toyota Echo has been known to spank a Miata or two and it will kill a stock 914. Its mostly all about car prep. Miata and the 914 are closely matched from chassis and suspension perspective. Miata has a definite power advantage in stock classes. I think mid engine gives the 914 a little advantage.

Miata and 914 with similar prep and hp will only be seperated by their drivers. Problem is getting 130 to 140 hp from a 914 without going bankrupt.

Can't argue with Japanese reliablilty. Can't argue with the results of 30+ years of suspension and engineering developement. can't argue with a shifter that goes right into teh top of the tranny. At least it isn't like stirring a bowl of mashed potatoes. BUt is is indeed still a MIata. Souless, characterless bubble that has no history behind it but it does have a bunch of sheople that follow it blindly cuz it is supposed to nostalgic. I love my teeners they have character.

Don't misunderstand. I run against lots of Miatas....only 2 of them are pesky They are well set up and driven.
Equaly set up (CSP) 914s don't have a prayer against those guys. Their set ups are simple & cheep compared with 914s.....tho they do spring for reeeal gud shox.....225 X 13/14 tires....they can get a rebuilt long block for 13/1500 bucks.
They mostly do some headers & cold air intake.....bout 2000 lbs. Out handle one with a CSP legal 914?....right.

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jun 28 2005, 05:34 PM)

Don't misunderstand. I run against lots of Miatas....only 2 of them are pesky They are well set up and driven. Equaly set up (CSP) 914s don't have a prayer against those guys. Their set ups are simple & cheep compared with 914s.....tho they do spring for reeeal gud shox.....225 X 13/14 tires....they can get a rebuilt long block for 13/1500 bucks. They mostly do some headers & cold air intake.....bout 2000 lbs. Out handle one with a CSP legal 914?....right.

Yeah its tough to stay in the same class with Miatas when trying to attain similar hp. Type IV isnt up to putting out that kind of hp with simple header and intake.

i think that given an equally prepped miata and 914 (whatever that means) with equally talented drivers, the miata will edge ahead.

i keep looking at spec miata, but i also love the soul of the 914.

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jun 28 2005, 06:03 PM)

i keep looking at spec miata, but i also love the soul of the 914.

Oh, yeah... soul, can't see it...........the souless bitch keeps takin' all my money

Equally prepped: to the limits of CSP, for instance.

Umm, for the 2005 SCCA season shouldn't you be in DSP?
I don't have the info in front of me but the rules were changed, if you were CSP last year then should have moved to DSP this year. Unless you are stock (CS) or modified (SM2) or more modified

Ya, and if I had a flocking Miata I'd be driving today... not with the 914 up on blocks waitin fer a 'nuther engine shitdamhell I wanna drive sumpin Damn rods

..........b

Quote;
Unfortunately I don't have a lot to spend (somewhere in the 2-3K neighborhood). Im looking for something RWD w/potential. No wankel's, something that is drivable, and can be easily modified.

Why not a wankel, huh?

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jun 28 2005, 08:34 PM)

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jun 28 2005, 06:03 PM) i keep looking at spec miata, but i also love the soul of the 914. Oh, yeah... soul, can't see it...........the souless bitch keeps takin' all my money

Ray said to........ Tell The Truth...

JP........ Denial is a RIVA in EGYPT...

Come clean now... you're GIVIN' her ALL your money!

We're just here to help you.





friggin' miaters....

..

QUOTE (itsa914 @ Jun 28 2005, 09:26 PM)

Umm, for the 2005 SCCA season shouldn't you be in DSP? I don't have the info in front of me but the rules were changed, if you were CSP last year then should have moved to DSP this year. Unless you are stock (CS) or modified (SM2) or more modified  ;)

You didn't say who you are addressing... Are YOU Talking To ME?

However....... I feel guilty enough to reply.

I asked to be bumped up this season just to keep all those miater asses as red as possible.

..

Imiata specs

0-60 times

1990 Mazda Miata 9.4 16.9
1991 Mazda Miata 9.1 16.7
1994 Mazda Miata 9.7 17.0

1970 Porsche 914 13.9 19.2
1973 Porsche 914 12.5 18.1
1973 Porsche 914S 10.5 17.0
1974 Porsche 914 2.0 8.9 16.7

Why must we go over this time after time??skid pad miata

skid pad info

You won't have to buy a new top for the 914 soon and the watercooled engine is heavier.

End of discussion.

QUOTE

My 1800 lb 115 hp Toyota Echo

You just admitted to owning the most beautiful car on the planet in a "public" forumn. That takes "gonads".

QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Jun 29 2005, 04:38 AM)

QUOTE My 1800 lb 115 hp Toyota Echo You just admitted to owning the most beautiful car on the planet in a "public" forumn. That takes "gonads".

I think its kind of sexy, but who cares. I bought it for $9000 new, it gets 40 MPG +, its pretty damn fast, and it handles like a go kart.

If your interested in the capabilities of the Echo (Vitz Hatch and Echo sedan share exact same platform and specs) check out this video it will make you laugh - my car has a better suspension than the car in this video and I am seriously thinking about buying the supercharger for my car:

http://home.comcast.net/~haary/yashio_vitz_xvid.avi

QUOTE (Dave Eddy @ Jun 28 2005, 08:36 PM)

Imiata specs 0-60 times 1990 Mazda Miata 9.4 16.9 1991 Mazda Miata 9.1 16.7 1994 Mazda Miata 9.7 17.0 1970 Porsche 914 13.9 19.2 1973 Porsche 914 12.5 18.1 1973 Porsche 914S 10.5 17.0 1974 Porsche 914 2.0 8.9 16.7 Why must we go over this time after time??skid pad miata skid pad info You won't have to buy a new top for the 914 soon and the watercooled engine is heavier. End of discussion.

Ugh, .84 vs .92 on the skid pad. That is a BIG difference.

I think one thing to keep in mind (I owned a miata once) is a 914 CAN be built into a better car, but at what price? If money were no object then, well, you know.

But given say a $3k budget, I would think you could grab a better Miata than a 914 easy. I liked the rag top of the Maita and loved the hardtop it had for the winter. They are nice little cars. I like the 914 much better and I have a love affiar with rust so a 914 sits at my house....On jackstands of course.

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Jun 29 2005, 07:54 AM)

QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Jun 29 2005, 04:38 AM) QUOTE My 1800 lb 115 hp Toyota Echo You just admitted to owning the most beautiful car on the planet in a "public" forumn. That takes "gonads". I think its kind of sexy, but who cares. I bought it for $9000 new, it gets 40 MPG +, its pretty damn fast, and it handles like a go kart. If your interested in the capabilities of the Echo (Vitz Hatch and Echo sedan share exact same platform and specs) check out this video it will make you laugh - my car has a better suspension than the car in this video and I am seriously thinking about buying the supercharger for my car: http://home.comcast.net/~haary/yashio_vitz_xvid.avi

That was another thing I didn't think about. Maita's use that little 323 oil squirting engine that takes to turbo-charging rather well. Even a $2k basic low boost bolt on kit will yield a good 155hp. So I am sure you could have an early miata for $5k with 150-160hp. That would be a fun little rag top! If the rusted to shit like 914's do, I would probably have one at my house..... on jackstands.

Yea but chicks REALLY dig Miata's

Oh wait...... thats Chicks DRIVE Miata's

Nuff said.

What am I saying I drove the wife's Cooper S this morning. OK so I parked between 2 big pick-up trucks to try and hide it. Hey it was still dark out.

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jun 29 2005, 08:31 AM)

Yea but chicks REALLY dig Miata's Oh wait...... thats Chicks DRIVE Miata's Nuff said. What am I saying I drove the wife's Cooper S this morning. OK so I parked between 2 big pick-up trucks to try and hide it. Hey it was still dark out.

Joe, Sorry to break it to you like this, but the 914 in its day was just as much a chick car as thee Miata and the Boxster.

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Jun 29 2005, 09:39 AM)

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jun 29 2005, 08:31 AM) Yea but chicks REALLY dig Miata's Oh wait...... thats Chicks DRIVE Miata's Nuff said. What am I saying I drove the wife's Cooper S this morning.   OK so I parked between 2 big pick-up trucks to try and hide it.    Hey it was still dark out. Joe, Sorry to break it to you like this, but the 914 in its day was just as much a chick car as thee Miata and the Boxster.

When I was in high school I got my first 914. I got a lot of crap for it too because it was a "Chick car".

When Miata's become old and beat up and require a set of tools to keep them going, then they will become a "Guy's car".

QUOTE (joseph222 @ Jun 28 2005, 08:17 PM)

QUOTE (itsa914 @ Jun 28 2005, 09:26 PM) Umm, for the 2005 SCCA season shouldn't you be in DSP? I don't have the info in front of me but the rules were changed, if you were CSP last year then should have moved to DSP this year. Unless you are stock (CS) or modified (SM2) or more modified  ;) You didn't say who you are addressing... Are YOU Talking To ME? However....... I feel guilty enough to reply. I asked to be bumped up this season just to keep all those miater asses as red as possible. ..

No Ill will ment, just wondering why you were run in CSP instead of DSP. I have to agree about kicking miata I love the look on their face when they see that I beat them

We didn't have these kind of cars in My high school.
CHICK CAR????? crap. guess I'll have to sell it.
Ya think a chick will buy this car? no sound deadening, no A/C, NO STEREO, Carbs, stiff springs poly bushings everywhere, solid motor and transmission mounts. Header....... You find chick that wants to buy this car and I'll throw ME in as is.

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jun 30 2005, 06:22 AM)

We didn't have these kind of cars in My high school. CHICK CAR????? crap. guess I'll have to sell it. Ya think a chick will buy this car? no sound deadening, no A/C, NO STEREO, Carbs, stiff springs poly bushings everywhere, solid motor and transmission mounts. Header....... You find chick that wants to buy this car and I'll throw ME in as is.

I can think of 4 or 5 women in Nor Cal that drive 914's similar to or even faster than your car with no stereo's. So the solution for macho Miata drivers is to remove the stereo and AC and put in stff suspension, etc. Presto you have a dude ready Miata.

I may be crazy, but it seems to me that the 914 has much more potential than any Miata--both engine and suspension wise. Raby or others can supply you with an insane 4 banger if you need it. Six cylinder engines were a factory option . Plus, you can shoehorn damn near anything in a 914. Try to put a V8 in the Miata and the dynamics will be completely different. Plus, I wonder how those skidpad numbers would be when you compare modern tire to modern tire.


I love Miatas. A perfect sports car made for a reasonable cost--but the fact that the 914 is still in contention 30 years after they quit making them shows that VW-Porsche did something very, very right.

QUOTE (Greg Bell @ Jun 30 2005, 09:35 AM)

I may be crazy, but it seems to me that the 914 has much more potential than any Miata--both engine and suspension wise. Raby or others can supply you with an insane 4 banger if you need it. Six cylinder engines were a factory option . Plus, you can shoehorn damn near anything in a 914. Try to put a V8 in the Miata and the dynamics will be completely different. Plus, I wonder how those skidpad numbers would be when you compare modern tire to modern tire. I love Miatas. A perfect sports car made for a reasonable cost--but the fact that the 914 is still in contention 30 years after they quit making them shows that VW-Porsche did something very, very right.

You still can't get past that whole shifter thing. I Miata has nice solid feeling shifter. The shifter in our cars is like rowing a boat and stirring a bowl of mashed potatoes at the same time. Some one should be shot over the design of our shifters.

QUOTE (Greg Bell @ Jun 30 2005, 09:35 AM)

I may be crazy, but it seems to me that the 914 has much more potential than any Miata--both engine and suspension wise. .............................................

What type of suspension does a Miata have? Can the trailing arm rear suspension of the 914 be competitive?


Andrew

Yes and no. The problems with the 914 suspension can be over come if you limit effective suspension travel to 1.5 inches in bump and droop. Then it doesn't matter if you have camber gain. Many of your open wheel cars don't have much camber gain infact many have very little suspension travel. If you are keeping a street car I think you could out do a Miata but it would take a lot of work.

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Jun 30 2005, 08:42 AM)

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jun 30 2005, 06:22 AM) We didn't have these kind of cars in My high school.   CHICK CAR?????   crap. guess I'll have to sell it.   Ya think a chick will buy this car?  no sound deadening, no A/C, NO STEREO, Carbs, stiff springs poly bushings everywhere, solid motor and transmission mounts.  Header.......    You find  chick that wants to buy this car and I'll throw ME in as is.  :lol2: I can think of 4 or 5 women in Nor Cal that drive 914's similar to or even faster than your car with no stereo's. So the solution for macho Miata drivers is to remove the stereo and AC and put in stff suspension, etc. Presto you have a dude ready Miata.

I thought I saw a "dude" in a Miata But she was just wearing a Flannel shirt.

That don't count.

We of course have lots of Miata's show up at the Autocrosses here. One of them is piloted by a very good driver. It is said he has 3000 dollar shocks. IDONNO Kumho 710's. He wears Knee pads supposedly to help brace himself inside the car. Whats that all about?

I wonder if you are really comparing apples to apples looking at the skid pad G-loads.

What were the stock tires on 914, probably ~165x70 something 30 year old technology. The tires tested on the miata were probably 195x50 performance radials. I think this could easily be the difference in the g-loads.

Yep

QUOTE (itsa914 @ Jun 29 2005, 09:06 PM)

.. [/QUOTE] No Ill will ment, just wondering why you were run in CSP instead of DSP. I have to agree about kicking miata I love the look on their face when they see that I beat them

Garold,

None taken! I didn't sense any ill will at all.

My DeNiro quote from Taxi, "Are YOU Talking To ME?" was just in fun.

I should have posted the pic below.

Keep spankin' those Miaters!