Just some pointers, and how to adjust different stuffs. I dont know which carbs are being installed, just that some are and it will be ready by friday.

very easy you know the thing that goes under the you know what ; well ..don't touch that!!! then do the other thing and that will help this; then i did the top watch-a-macallit and that didn't work !! so the only thing that makes sense is to "PAY A PROFESSIONAL" if you want it done right!!!

will the whatyamacallits stay put when adjusted.....?

School Up; all installs are different, few standard set-ups.

Hope you're ready for Trial 'n Error, Hit or Miss, Better Off Dead, etc ...

Took one look and realized that I'm screwed.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jun 28 2005, 06:04 PM)

Just some pointers, and how to adjust different stuffs. I dont know which carbs are being installed, just that some are and it will be ready by friday.

pretty vague description

figure about 1/2 a dozen different carbs could be going on it.....

general pointer?? you turn screws, replace stuff and it works or it doesn't

I just hope who ever is installing them knows what they are doing...and once install you don't touch them until you know what you are doing 100%

you can possibly fry a motor quicker with badly tuned carbs than with FI

no double checks....what about a CO2 reading....of around or slightly more than 2% at a certain RPM....

Go watch an expert tune the carbs & have him explain what he is doing & why.....pay him exrta if you must. Turn some screws under his tutilage....or it's 6 months of hit & miss + insufficient info from books. I did it the latter way...just happy I didn't break anything

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jun 28 2005, 09:43 PM)

no double checks....what about a CO2 reading....of around or slightly more than 2% at a certain RPM....

... what a hoot! It's beginning already.

Let's see ... while it's idling, you shove your middle finger way up the tailpipe, swab it around a bit, than taste it. If it's way too sooty, YOUR RUNNING RICH; turn the idle mixture screw in 1/2 turn and repeat above. In between head spins, don't forget to watch the idle speed with an automotive meter (Dwell-Tachometer), NOT with your uncalibrated dash-mounted clock-o-meter.

Now the fun part begins, gettin' to trash the engine while you figure out if the low and/or high speed jets are anywhere NEAR correct. After all, without one of them there dynos the pros (a.k.a. MassIVE Jake) use, you get to eyeball it, a LOT. Are the spark plug electrodes arc-welded off? Shucks, you might be runnin' a tad LEAN; gotta richen those carbs up quick! Can you start a camp fire by just wiping your plugs on kindling and lighting it with music from your MP3 player? WHOAH, circuit's WAY too rich; it's a wonder you haven't detonated that Mittlemotor exhaust on your last trip to Blockbusters.

CO2 reading my left nut; it's called reading your spark plugs, syncing your carbs, and calibrating your ear(s). From this point on, you're going to wake up with OEM D-Jet FI wet dreams ...

My opinion, which is worth not much!

Do not do it.

After 10 years of experimenting with a set of 40mm webers on a 2.0 engine, and 10 years of turning this and that and trying every available set of main and idle jets, and after every different choke, even with a set of custom ones, and thinking we finally had them right, a guy with a stock 2.0 with fi (he did have european p&c's) could out pull us on the relatively short main straight at Grattan.

We put the fi back on the motor, and I swear it is faster, and has more low end torque. And it just starts nice and runs, and runs and runs.

Spend what it takes to make the fi work like it did new, and do not believe all the bull crap about how much better carbs are. The factory did not have switch to fi because it made less hp, or a less reliable engine.

Change ignition systems, change exaust systems etc. but keep the stock fi.

well it is a reversible process....so I could go back when i get my $$ for the bowlsby harness....

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jun 28 2005, 10:27 PM)

well it is a reversible process....so I could go back when i get my $$ for the bowlsby harness....

If THAT'S the only thing holding you up, than the best advice ANYONE here is going to give you is, just PARK IT AND WALK until you buy the harness! Nothing to reverse! (yeah, right...)

PROBLEM SOLVED!

it's easier said than done. this is my D.D.....

I agree with flesburg, If you need to do it now, it would be okay,but it is alot more work than FI. If you planning on running the whole year, you'll have to change jets as it gets colder and warmer, FI adjusts itself. Most times also, your wiring gets messed up when changing to carbs, if not done right.... at least thats what happened to mine when the PO changed to carbs... I say that FI may be a little more complicated, and takes some skill, it is alot better than carbs. just my two cents....
THE GRASSHOPPER

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jun 28 2005, 10:39 PM)

it's easier said than done. this is my D.D.....

Carb(s) is NOT a temporary band-aid ...

Ask to borrow the Family Truckster, or walk, until the harness arrives ...

Now you know what 914's are all about ... compromises.

tuning carbs is a lost art, FI is much more a science... science can be learned easier than a dead language... a new harness is way cheaper than carbs too... priced weber 40s lately?

if you have an FI and a stock engine, it's worth more to get it to work, you'll like life better... carbs are fine, put all the lose hp behind... lose 5% either way, that's NOT the point... thing I'm trying to say is FI is a BETTER thing to invest time in learning...

which is better if you want to be a structural engineer: Latin or physics?

yeah but these arent gonna be brand new webers....which are over $1200.....


okay, I would be getting some carb experience with this.....so to me this isnt a total loss.

things will be MUCH easier when I go back to school...as I could just leave the car when i go back to school for weeks at a time.

dude... Carbs on a FI cam suck.....

dont half ass it. go all the way, or not at all
no reversing....

if ya know latin (or lets say italian to be more applicable) you'll pick up more chicks... chicks dig a guy who knows how to work on carbs. I know hp will be put on the table, as will driveability, but i have lots of other things I need to work on and the 914 is kinda not at the top.....carbs will work for now, i have four places around me that do carb work.....and when i get my money together and get my stuff rebuilt....I will go back to FI.


I know FI is better, which is why i'm STILL a FI guy. I know alot about FI but learning latin sounds good too.

this guy surprises me all the time. For all i know he did switch the cams.

took it in for a tune-up, he replaced my trunk rollers with the billet ones too.

and my parking brake, did that too along with other things.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jun 28 2005, 10:49 PM)

yeah but these arent gonna be brand new webers....

New ... old ... what's the difference? They're CARBS, and they're NOT NECESSARY.

Forget "getting some carb experience with this", THAT'S POINTLESS.

Eat crow and walk until you G-E-T_T-H-E_H-A-R-N-E-S-S.

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jun 28 2005, 09:50 PM)

dude... Carbs on a FI cam suck..... dont half ass it. go all the way, or not at all no reversing....

yep, no giveseys backseys if you have to live with carbs for a bit to get the FI running so be it, but carbs won't make you happier, they will just displace your frustration...

btw CARB experience is a joke... you won't be able to apply it to FI later... don't end up like me, man!! I learned carbs when I was a kid and haven't invested time in learning FI... learn FI and forget the carbs

what is the REAL holdout? why would you really want to do this? that is what you should be asking yourself... learning carbs is not a good reason, to just get it going isn't even a great reason... either chose carbs because that is what you want the engine to be forever(or at least til the next rebuild) or because you already know carbs, or because you inheirted them...

you didn't inheirit and you don't already know carbs, and you already have a Full FI!

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jun 28 2005, 09:52 PM)

if ya know latin (or lets say italian to be more applicable) you'll pick up more chicks... chicks dig a guy who knows how to work on carbs. I know hp will be put on the table, as will driveability, but i have lots of other things I need to work on and the 914 is kinda not at the top.....carbs will work for now, i have four places around me that do carb work.....and when i get my money together and get my stuff rebuilt....I will go back to FI. I know FI is better, which is why i'm STILL a FI guy. I know alot about FI but learning latin sounds good too.

if you're trying to pick up a chick that digs carbs... she's either FAT (thinks your talking about doughnuts or something) or she MIGHT be batting for the other team

unless they are girls here... of course, but they know FI is a better choice too...

yeah now that i think about it....


nothing i have now is matched according to the brad anders site....so i have to re-group and get everything matched, bc i am pretty sure that was a big reason why my engine ran like garbage when i used my stuff. the mps is good though.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jun 28 2005, 06:53 PM)

this guy surprises me all the time. For all i know he did switch the cams.

The cam on a type 4 engine is between the case halves. It requires a full rebuild to "switch" the cam.

I dont know FI well enough to give an opinion. I have 40 IDFs on my 914, but it hasnt been started up yet. I also have 40 IDFs on my 912 and it runs like a champ.

If you dont know what carbs they are, I BET they're going to be shitty carbs. If they are, dont pay for them. A single carb wont help you at all.

it's definately NOT single carb setup...it's dual carb somethings....

QUOTE

chicks dig a guy who knows how to work on carbs

Yeah baby, lemme show you how I work on carbs, then I'll walk you to the DQ for dinner...

I think I saw a pic of said chic in the sandbox...

You are soooooo screwed...

Take the money you're spending on carbs and their installation and buy a bike.

i know....but when its all said and done and i die when my car gets engulfed in flames, i'll at least know that I have had a car with carbs.

...and a girl from the sandbox.

my girlfriend won't like me hanging with the grease-carb girl.....

Guys,
Sounds like on Friday he will have a car with dual carbs.
Lets at least help the guy a bit and stop trying to tell him what he
should do in a perfect world.

Britt, talk to your mechanic and ask him which carbs he will
be installing on your car. Weber IDFs and Dellortos are very popular.
If it is one of those jump over to the CB performace
website and order one of their Tech handbooks.
Weber Tech Book
Dellorto TechBook
It is great for understanding how they work and how to tune and
rebuild them.
They are only $10 so don't even think about not ordering one.
Haynes does have a Weber manual that you can probably get
locally but it is twice the cost and I don't think it is as useful.
In the mean time, while you are waiting for your book to come in,
jump over to the aircooled.net site and read all their technical
articles. They have lots of great information.
Aircooled.Net Tech Articles
In order to Tune the Carbs, you will need to have an air flow meter.
Lots of folks sell them and CB has them as well:
Flow Meter
This will get you started.
If you intend to maintain this yourself, there are some other
things that you will eventually have to know about the fuel
system and the ignition system.

If you don't already have one, I'd highly recommend getting
a timing light with 'advance' functionality. This will allow you
to set your timing because sometimes whacky performance issues
are actually ignition timing issues an not carburettor issues.

BTW, make sure you get ALL your FI parts back so that if you
do decide to go back to FI in the future you will at least have
a starting point.

You should also have you mechanic give you quick rundown on
exactly what he did so we can help you in the future.
Things like:
- Which carburettors
- VERY IMPORTANT: jetting:
(Venturi size, Emulsions, Idles, Mains, Air correctors)
- What distributor
- How was timing set, what was it set to?
- What fuel pump and where did he attach it for +12v power
- Is there a Fuel pressure regulator? what was pressure set to?


Hope that gets you going.

--- Bill

thank you.

QUOTE (bperry @ Jun 29 2005, 01:59 AM)

In order to Tune the Carbs, you will need to have an air flow meter.

with everything Bill said except the quoted portion.
A piece of hose (fuel line works) long enough to go from your ear to the carb throats is enough equipment to synchronize the carbs.

I don't understand why you guys are so anti carbs. I am running Dellortos on my car mostly because that is what was on it when I got it, and it runs great.
If you run a stock cam then I guess the FI is better, but if you want to up the Hp with a more radical cam, then you need to run carbs, or an after market FI system.
I also agree with Bill. Just make sure your mechanic replaced the stock fuel pump with one designed for carbs, or you probably will go up in flames.

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jun 28 2005, 05:45 PM)

Go watch an expert tune the carbs & have him explain what he is doing & why.....pay him exrta if you must. Turn some screws under his tutilage....or it's 6 months of hit & miss + insufficient info from books. I did it the latter way...just happy I didn't break anything

Yup me too. My 1.7l with original D jet ran SOOOO great. Well I wasn't happy with that so I put in my very modded motor with 44 IDF's. Yup ran so so and required constatnt tweaking. Started to run really good. swapped intakes and 40 IDF's. Coll now I get to do more tweaking and a bunch of head scratching and cussing.

Got it hauling ass Litterally. So I put the car back on jackstands and decided to weld up some shit.

Hope to be ready for race next week


Britt. WTF are you doing now? I coulda set up your whole motor for you if'n you learn to comunicate. and or LISTEN.

I'm not anti-carbs... if that what you already have... and I'm only for stock-FI on a stock engine... but if you have a stock FI and you have a stock engine, why invest the energy into carbs?

my thing was also that they are harder to learn than FI...

Britt, you should also do 1 thing before you get carbs on your car... if you want to learn them, rebuild one... you can get the kits for webers or dells at aircooled.net, read the article on that site about choosing your jets, and get the right ones(I know they should be slightly bigger than stock idles and mains on weber 40s) and rebuild them... this will give you a peek inside and you'll start to see how they work...

Britt,
So tell us. How'd it work out with the carbs?
What did you end up with?

--- bill

I've run both F.I. and carbs.

Both are great when they are working.

In my case, I *have* dual triples and am happy with the performance. I have no intention of changing to F.I. on this motor. ( Why would I? )

Nathan runs his 2056 with duals- fast
Grant runs his 1.8 with L-jet- fast
Albert pulled his duals off his 2.0 and put them on his 1.8 with stock cam-fast.
Howard runs D-jet on his 2.0-fast
Demick runs D-Jet on his 2056-fast

Point is: a good running motor can be had with carbs or F.I.
The stock cam will be O.K. , too. Maybe not the best, but you should be able to produce a reliable driver in an afternoon.

Stop fooling around, and make us proud.

KT

I will agree with the books as a starting point. If the mechanic installs them and they work fine, don't fuck with them. Your car will most probably work a little differently from day to day with carbs (depending on how hot, humid altitude etc.). You will need a meter of sorts. Long ago I tried the hose thing but I really didn't know what I was trying to do, a meter would tell me a little easier - but that is just exposure and experience. You will need to know how to pull your idle jets, because you will need to blow them out every so often.

Carbs can be pandoras box just as FI has been for you, pick your poison.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jun 28 2005, 06:52 PM)

if ya know latin (or lets say italian to be more applicable) you'll pick up more chicks... chicks dig a guy who knows how to work on carbs.

NUFF SAID!!

Britt I'm currently running Webers and F.I and I can tell you the #1 & #2 bank has the F.I. and runs ALOT smoother; but the #3 & #4 bank with the carbs, while it idles a little rough and has some hesitation, it does rip at WOT. Of course I did install a 1/2 cam to be able to run this setup.

Scotty, go easy...

KT

Running both...

i don't know what bowlsby charges for a harness, but it's got to be less than a set of carbs, linkage, pump, etc. even used.. and less learning curve, by a factor of about 10.

either way you can learn.

QUOTE (bperry @ Jul 4 2005, 05:40 PM)

Britt, So tell us. How'd it work out with the carbs? What did you end up with? --- bill

ended up with a 2 barrel carb (single)....works SO GREAT! and it's progressive so it rips when i stomp on it. I have the 1.7 now. This setup is fine for the 1.7 (a bit rich) but i'll need to go balls-to-the-wall with my 2.x rebuild.


flame away

No flames here.

Remember the goal is to enjoy driving the 914.
If you can safely do that, congrats are in order.

KT

i dont know any better than what i have....and HOLY COW do i notice a difference.

its night and day....sounds real throaty and porsche-like between 3-4k and up.....i can hear the sound i never knew existed with the 914...the slight whine from the engine. (read good whine....) sounds impeller related. OH and I CAN HEAR MY VALVES!!!!!

thank you all very much

good deal. not driving your car sucks. glad it's making race car sounds, if not performance, now.

Britt,

Good luck with the carb setup. Best to be a bit rich for the street. I had a single carb setup on my first 1.7 car. Ran great. I have messed with carbs for years. I dont trust FI very much. Carbs are simpler to fix on the side of the road outside of nowhere USA.

I can fix all of your problems with a simple V8 swap!

David

that 350 setup looked wild. And you even kept the 901 too.

congrats man... whatever gets it on the road!! it's better to hear that you aree running it, than just being aggrevated with it...


this is the first I've heard of a single carb running RICH... usually they run way lean... also, in the winter, remember the manifolds won't get warm enough, so don't let the engine die...