What are your thoughts or problems to be expected on either putting a Aluminum 2014 Chevy 4.3L V6 LV3 engine (285hp/305 lb Torque) in a 914 using a 901 Transmission or a 2017 Aluminum GM 3.6L V6 LGZ engine (308hp/275 lb torque) in a 914 using a 901 transmission? I’ve checked with Kennedy they have the correct adapter kit for the engines to the 901 transmission. Both engines weigh 340-400 lbs. each. What draws my attention to these engines is the late model technology, weight, size, hp, torque.....I know the stock new E92 ECU would probably be a bear. I realize the 901 trans would have to have the upper gears addressed and beefier axles and cooling would have to be addressed. Thanks

Lots of cutting and cursing.
Gotta run plumbing to the front, lose front trunk to the big ass radiator.
Gonna dump hot air on your front brakes, trunk will always be full of dirt.
Can't use 1st gear with that torque, so effectively the 901 will be a 4 speed, taking off in 2nd.
Weight higher in the car. Wiring nightmare.


Those are just a few things the immediately come to mind, probably going to be more.

See this thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=340116

Can you do a standalone ECU for the LGZ?

Thanks for the thread, I missed it somehow! SirAndy and Mueller appreciate your feed back. I have lots of research to do....have a great day.

Same effort and money as a LS.. less motor.

@speedmetalarmy did a really nice job with an LS swap. If I did it LS would be what I’d do.

Thanks

You should cover these thoughts if you decide to swap anything into a 914:

What will I get for my investment
How will affect the driving / Handling / reliability of the car
What Supporting modifications will in need to make (Cooling/Drive train/wiring)
Do I have the skills to do it or will I need a professional (Most of us need professional help! )

And this one I always throw in:

For the money spent can you buy a car that will do what you want and save time/effort/money/aggrivation? (Miata/Cheap Boxster/Cheap 996/ Vespa Scooter)

#3 Vespa Scooter, I think you’ve been talking to my wife!

So I will take a stab at that side of the coin. What I have invested in tooling, both the basics and some really cool fab tools, the parts again some basic and some very high end cool stuff. I do not mind paying for high quality stuff. I added it all up, and I could have ran down okay walked to the Porsche dealer, and dropped my name on the list for a Cayman GT4. Had coin left over to get get a new z51 C8. Or walked over to that British company that dominated F1, and brought home something with a 7xxS in its name. If that is your thing you would not have asked the question or carried on a really long conversation about a 914 TDI

Pick your engine and build the car. Sometimes you have to build the car around the engine sometimes the car is built for an engine and it takes a dreamer with a vision to make everyone realize just how wrong they where and the type-4 or even the holy grail 911 engine just might not have been the right engine for the car that was a vision 50 years ago, and still has potential today.

Factory played the hot rod game, and we are just up holding that time honored tradition. Get out there, cut weld, spin a few spanners, and get the dang car build. Then drive.

I was once told by a sage man, a running 914 is better than no 914. Thank you @McMark

Very true!

You forgot higher center of gravity and degraded handling.

Aluminum LS is about the same weight as a -6 with a center of gravity just slightly higher which gets offset by the weight of the radiator and coolant lines filled with coolant at the lowest points of the car.

Technically a -6 oil tank raises the COG also

Ad to that a much better shifting and stronger Boxster S trans which makes a 901 look like the stone ages (which it is).

As for wiring, I wouldn't consider having to connect Batt power, Switched Ignition power, and ground a "mess " or a "nightmare". The availability of standalone harnesses for cheap have eliminated this issue.

Old school SBC, 12v switched for the HEI and Alt. Generator light hook up And a ground. Done

There's a reason there's so many V8 swaps out there and why Renegade is booked solid.

It was originally my second option after the suby

There's also a reason why most of them look like someone hacked them together over a weekend while someone else was holding their beer.
When they are done with attention to detail they can be great but somehow most of them are the exact opposite.

It seems the v6/8 conversion route is often taken as the last ditch effort to get a rotting 914 back on the road.

Guilty as charged.

The 3.6 is a sports car motor, used in the Camaro & Caddys. The 4.3 has always been a truck motor (3/4 a 350 sbc).

The 3.6 would be the better choice. How well it fits with all the VVT & new tech is to be seen.
The LS is a fairly compact motor as it's still pushrod design where everything else is DOHC. Plus the LS swap has been done and sorted.

I have a feeling that a lot of the v8 conversions will go away and H6 conversions will be made of them in a few years as the demand for good H6 cars skyrocket and the people who want a cheap fast mid engine v8 car will go the route of the MUCH nicer c8 for similar money..

No disrespect to any of the guys doing V6/V8/V10/V12 conversions. To each his own. I applaud you guys for the fabrication and the effort involved in your chosen path.

I mean this as a discussion of the engineering and physics which is clear. LS or not, the upward movement of the center of gravity is higher and more significant than estimated. I'll even give the benefit of assuming the LS being dry sumped. CG is moving higher with any Vee arrangement than with a flat boxer engine. Don't get me started on what it would be with a wet sump! In the case of a 914, moving the CG upward relative to the vehicle roll center is not going to be a good thing with a semi-trailing arm rear suspension.

Granted, most people don't have the equipment to do a serious CG / moments of inertia study, but, you can do a pretty accurate CG measurement and not guess. Measurements can be made with basic racing scales by the method below.

http://www.longacreracing.com/technical-ar...aspx?item=42586

Saying that movement of the CG is partially offset by having the coolant and radiator is partially true, but, what has been done is that the polar moment of inertia of the vehicle has been increased by moving that mass of radiator and coolant to the front of the vehicle. Again, not the direction you want to go to improve handling.

You are correct that 911 oil tank moves CG up, but, the mass as placed by Porsche is still centralized to the engine area to maintain a very low polar moment of inertia relative to most other cars on the road. If you really wanted, that oil tank could be moved elsewhere, but, at the risk of adding yaw inertia. Ideal place to relocate would probably be the passenger seat area in a flat tank at floor level.

My last point would be regardless of how many V8 / Renegades might be out there, that still doesn't offset the physics with respect to handling degradation's. It just speaks to our American penchant for Rule #1 of Hot Rod culture which is there is no replacement for displacement. America is a land of long straight roads so lots of torque, high HP, and ease of driving are weighted favorably by most at the expense of handling.

the mid engine Vette is seriously interesting.

The -6 oil tank and lines are hardly "centered" since they are all on the outer edge of the LH side of the car?

I for one am not convinced that the CG argument has any merit on the street. I've ridden in plenty 914s and some of the best handling ones have been v8s.

Suspension and tires play way more a part than 1,2 or even 300lbs in the middle of the car.

On the track where 5% of 914s go and 5% of those in serious competition events, sure every little bit is huge... But for most every 914 owner building their "outlaw" it doesn't make a difference.

What makes a difference is if their car is running for the next weekend or drive or show or race.

The radiator full of water barely weighs 10 lbs, so it isn't a factor.

My V6 weighs 300 lbs, roughly 100-120 lbs of that is intake, heads & 4 cams. In a 2000lb car that may move CG up maybe 1/2", or not much different than a typical passenger.

Now a 500 lb SBC I can feel in ride and handling compared to the T4, but then it's also shifted to the rear 1.5".

2 gallons of coolant is 16lbs by itself. Then add the 8 ft+ of rubber hose, 1 or 2 cooling fans, the radiator and hardware. You're probably closer to 30lbs.

Your VQ weighs in at 330lbs from the info I've seen, the bare block is right about 180lbs so your probably not as top heavy as you think.

I’m speechless.

I can’t believe that there is argument that a Vee engine effects on C.G. and moment of inertia are not a significant degradation vs an air cooled horizontally opposed dry sump engine. All other things kept equal. Sure you can redesign anything, tires, suspension, tube frame the chassis, etc., and build a better car than a bone stock 914. That is missing the point of what the engine swap effect is on its own merit and subsequent re-engineering needed to offset and/or improve the initial degradation.

I’m going to assume I must be misunderstanding the posts debating this.

Keep it German. Audi 4.2 )

Say it ain’t so. You have a 2.4l six waiting in the garage

Horizontally opposed 6 cylinder with dry sump and a sloshing (yes I know there's baffles but the oil still moves) 6 quart oil tank mounted 12" above the axle centerline and as far left of the vehicle centerline as possible?

Now here's the punch line.. And it only makes 250hp

I'll take a slight change in handling for an easy 450hp

I like where this is going.

Bigger, more better because as the Beach Boys say “I get rubber in all 4 gears”
600HP V8 930 trans




Bob B

I'm probably putting my name in for a Renegade conversion this week. I was leaning towards a Subi swap but for less money they can do a 5.3 aluminum V8 with 325+ hp. They rebuild the trans and dump 1st gear (which will snap) and regear the other gears to match the V8. At the same time you need to think about the axles, brakes and suspension to handle the upgraded power. The tab jumps up quick.

They probably don't regear 2nd since it's fixed unless you use a 904 shaft.
One of the nice things about a suby conversion is a suby trans bolts right on, is geared better to the engine and cost a couple hundred dollars. Like the engines, they don't usually need a rebuild.

Like Sir Andy said, it's easy to find a cheap and powerful V8, it's the install that separates the cool from the crap.

I wouldn't waste my time with a 901, find a Boxster S 6 speed

Ls swap deserves a Boxster S trans for right now. Adapter plates and extras required

Subaru Swap Subaru 5 speed

901 only if you can't find one of the above for your swap or you are really a sadist or you are running a Porsche engine and can be gentle enough on 1st to make it work.

915s and the 930s where the way to put power down as they used to be the only options.

Or the new 8 speed in the C8. No adapter plates for the GM engines but a bit of electronic wizardry required.

V6 s are the new v8s

So this swap makes sense
If you keep it light weight. 180lbs springs..big sway bars etc you might be ok

C/g i dont think is a issue ... With your corner exit speeds it will compensate (buy $ good cv joints)

Does a boxster trans mean a 5 speed man
Or a 6 speed man or a pdk

Can you use a 911 7 speed manual... That gets my vote

im currently in the process of doing that same swap.
dump the 901 transmission and get yourself the boxster s tranny.

What? Why settle for 450 hp. You've never heard of Singer? As soon as I hit the lottery I'm there!

Chi-town; not picking on you, I just think your posts are right to the point and I love that!

@Superhawk996

find a way to get drawn to subaru, this way you can use subaru engine and transmission, and no adaptor needed.

one main component needed is the 4wd to 2wd locking spool.

http://subarugears.com/Pricing/Pricing.html

engine trans mount and shift linkage are the main challenges.

see this, pretty convincing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALwR2Fj91Co

I went to a 930 that can handle 700HP and it has a LDS and oil cooling for the trans.

I did not take a Junker car and work around that, I took a super rust free 914 CA car that was a nice 6 conversion car without the engine. Carrera front Suspensions 930 stub axles
911 E brake and Boxster breaks. Leather dash and seats

Super parts and all I have to do is finish it. 4 speed 930 is very good for V8 GM conversion but Boxster is much lower in dollars spent getting it in your car. Now all I have to do is finish it up.


Bob B