Bob, @naro914
Can you remind us again or give some more details on what & how to approach PCA to show support for the 914 specialty group to help keep Okteenerfest alive? Maybe this need to be a separate thread, but I thought participants might look here first?

Thanks again for a spectacular event! It is one of the most enjoyable outings of the year.

I had the following as the PCA guy to write to. It doesn't work. Obviously I copied it wrong or they block all 914 owners somehow.

60thclubgroupe@gmail.com

What's the correct address?

Vu and all EC are well aware of Okteenerfest - I personally invite them every year and I need their approval for insurance and the subsidy (which we didn't get this year). Manny knows too.



60thclubcoupe@gmail.com

Danny,
Just send him a note that you're disapointed that they decommisioned the 914 Registry group and how you feel disrespected (or whatever you want to say).
Based on the responses people are getting, not sure it's going to matter. Somehow its becoming my fault...

You will get a response along the lines of "We DO appreciate and respect the 914 owners, we are doing a celebration, and all...but Bob left and nobody stepped up, so we ditched it" which is not completely true since a couple people DID reach out to him about taking over and he never responded. So they gave up.

If ANYBODY wants to step up and be 914 Registry Advocate, please tell him. Its not a lot of work, but it may really pay dividends down the road.

I just emailed him an offered to be the 914 Registry Advocate. We will see if there is really interest from PCA in having a 914 Registry. If there is someone else I should email my willingness send me a PM.

I wrote a week ago and didn't get a reply at all.

I received a reply from John. I’m not entirely sure how to interpret it. I do think he is upset with Bob for putting this out there. I figured that would be the case as soon as the slide with his email appeared on the screen. I replied to his email with what I think is a strong case to reestablish the 914 Registry and for me to become the advocate. It’s in their court now. The only other thing I think might help is a post here and on the 914 Facebook pages directing owners to go to the PCA website and respectfully email John letting him know we want our own Special Interest Group back. Not just for Octeenerfest, but for the love of our mid engine air cooled cars. We know all the coolest Porsche cars are built that way. Here is a link to the PCA page with a hyperlink to Johns PCA email. https://www.pca.org/special-interest-groups . I’m going to let someone else post this if they agree it will help the cause.

When Charlie Davis (RIP) wanted to retire from being the SIG advocate, he asked me if I was willing to take over. I agreed, and he contacted PCA. They decided I wasn't well enough known in the mainstream PCA community, so I didn't get it. Even though I was well known in the 914 community, that was not good enough. That's when the contacted Bob. Bob did a great job, but he and PCA national had different ideas about the SIG/Registry.

Betty and I have been PCA members for 17 years. We initially didn't want to join because we were leery of the NARP stigma. Charlie convinced us to join, and we had only one NARP experience in the whole 17 years... until now. I am now considering ending our PCA membership. I have already decided to drop out of National Club Race Timing and Scoring as of next year.

As I understand it, the Registry had an issue with using 914world as the registry forum. But a bunch of the registries don't even have a website.

PCA always says "It's not the cars, it's the people." Well, this action by PCA shows their motto should be "If you don't drive a 911, you ain't shit"

Reposting from previous thread


I emailed John and was respectful in my wording. But regardless of the reasoning, those on the outside can only see this as a very exclusionary action by PCA. I know there will be lots of “reasons” that explain what it’s not, but the simple reality is there is no other way for 914 owners to take this.

As a well funded organization PCA should be smart enough to know that. Regardless of reasons for the action there was clearly a million better ways to go about it.

We will wait to see how they respond. Not quite to canceling my membership but getting close.[b][/b]

I was courteous in my email. Silence is an effective communication technique.

I've left organizations I was very committed to in the past because they no longer represented my interests. Every man should decide what's best for himself.

914 owners are a rambunctious and dwindling crowd. Perhaps PCA has made the decision we're no longer worth it? Our hobby doesn't put a lot of dollars into the PCNA till.

I hope it's resolved or that we can find an alternative solution for insurance coverage that allows us to hold 914-specific events.

Sent email:

1986, 33 years ago, my soon to be bride, and I joined and attended a local PCA event here in south eastern Michigan. My 1st PCA event and at the time a 914 owner for 12 years.
2004 Joined 914World.com an attended 2004 & 2005 MidWest Classic 914 gatherings here in Michigan. Lots of 914, and lots of great people. Rejoined PCA, and due to no 914 content or interest, I did not renew our membership with PCA.

2016, & 2017 competed in the Build-off-Challenge Contest.

2019 found a great group of owners, in Northern Ontario. PCA UCR 914 SIG. Attended 2 events, and felt great warmth, and interest in the 914, by all owners, Rejoined PCA.

Okteenerfest was fantastic again this year. Thanks all that worked so hard to pull that off. Though PCA would be more involved, but the norm was true, very little attention from PCA on one of the biggest Porsche mid engine events in North America. PS: PCA most 914 owners own other Porsche products!

As you can tell the 914 drives my Porsche passion. Every time I have reached out to participate in PCA events I have not found the people, that I find in 914 themed events.
I have great interest in all Porsche products, but find some PCA regions that focused on other models don’t.

No matter what your interest, the great thing about “car guys” is they love there ride, and respect that in others. I think you will find 914 owners fall into this class of people. And would love to share all there Porsche experiences with others. PCA don’t let us down, please find more room for growing unity in the Porsche Community.

My email.

John,

I am sure you had a number of people contact you regarding the 914 Registry. As a PCA members my wife and I are very troubled with the recent removal. We are a multiple Porsche family and long time PCA supporters. We are very conflicted on what message PCA is trying to convey to 914 owners. I was wondering if PCA could clarify their intent of this action as we find it to be exclusionary. This is not an action we think represents the PCA we have supported for any years.

I know you have others offer to serve as the 914 advocate and if you need support I would be happy to assist.

https://www.pca.org/special-interest-

Notice that there is nothing for 356 either, I think that both the 356 registry and the 914world are so strong, PCA feels like that they do not need an extra registry for either car??

Porsche's future is with SUV's, sedans and, ultimately, electric versions of those vehicles.

Our cars (and those of us over 50) are not their target demographic. 914's are as alien to Porsche as old rotary phones are to telecom workers. There is no money in it nor any future. How many 914's survive compared to all the other Porsche models out there? Our numbers barely register.

It's not about the people...it hasn't been for a long time. It's about the money. The latest Panorama mentioned record membership growth and revenue is THREE time greater than it was just eight years ago. Sure, at the regional PCA level it may be about the people. But, at the corporate level it's about the money. Porsche (and PCA) will target the up and coming virtue signalling millennials with disposable income who will buy EV's. Very few of us have the income to buy a Taycan and those of us who do have that income don't have the desire. We are not the target audience.

It's up to forums like this to keep the 914 alive.

I learned long ago not to chase people who aren’t interested in me.

Timely! I just received my renewal application from PCA. The only reason I joined was to support PCA thinking I would benefit from supporting PCA. Looks like I was fooled. Not this time. They will most likely celebrate my departure anyway. Adíos PCA.

I went to my one and only PCA Meeting in 1973
and it was made abundantly clear that NO 914
was welcome.....
Over the years people have told me that the attitude of
the PCA has changed and they were being inclusive now.
I resisted going back and I’m glad I did.
Best of Luck to Them.........

As I posted on the other thread, To be clear...PCNA is in no way associated with PCA or the 914 Register Group. PCNA is Porsche Cars North America. They are a company. They sell new cars and quite honestly make zero money off of us 914 owners (ok, I do buy my oil filters from the local dealer for the race car but...) PCA is the club, and the register groups fall under PCA.

We can sit and discuss all we want about how we have a great community here and "who needs PCA anyway"....but...when it comes down to the insurance for the event, 914world is not going to provide that - PCA does. And without that insurance, there is no Okteenerfest...or at least I am not involved.

good point, just to give you an idea, when we moved the seven 914s into PCNA for the 50th celebration, there was just brief talk about the 914 and then the rest of the chat was about brumos racing and 911s that were actually moving out. Truly slighted by the officials. Then again, Porsche did not make the 914 but they sure made the 911 and still make it in some form today, so those old 911s promote sales of the new ones, while the "poor" 914 promotes nothing for them, the car manufacturer. We just have to shrug our shoulders (as I did that day) and accept reality.

At least the cars look good on display there



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Maybe we need to think about getting our own insurance....


Car club event insurance:

https://heacockclassic.com/collector-cars/e...show-insurance/

https://www.hagerty.com/insurance/business-...rance/car-clubs

https://americanspecialty.com/programs/motorsports

https://protectyournonprofit.com/chapter-cl...liability-plus/

These are some of the examples out there.

To acquire insurance as a group event we may have to organize as a club, with officers such as a secretary/treasurer to operate a checkbook account. I would really hate to see Okteenerfest die, it's such a good gathering and resource for our crazy car gang. I nominate Bob for president!

I am well aware that PCA is not part of PCNA. Nor, have I advocated anyone dropping their PCA membership. I’m not dropping mine. But, I joined PCA because of my 911’s. I would have never joined if I only owned 914(s). What I am saying is that it is unrealistic to expect much, if any, interest from either organization in the 914. The 914 was not a good fit in the Porsche portfolio 50 years ago. It’s even less so now.

PCA will expend the vast majority of its resources chasing new members. What are those new members buying? SUV’s and sedans with a smattering of sports cars. Do I blame them? Absolutely not. We, as 914 owners, need to be realistic in where we fit in the overall organization. Which, realistically, may be even lower than the 924

I hope that PCA will continue to provide us insurance coverage for future 914 events. But, to expect more than that may be unrealistic. We are not the future and I’m okay with that that.

I agree. According to the info on 914World, we have 21,703 members. If only 25% of them (5426) are willing to join an official club, and pay dues of $50.00/year (same dues as PCA), we would be able to generate $271,287.50 per year of income. We could keep it simple, and just use that for Insurance and subsidy for the events like Okteenerfest, Red Rocks Classic, and the West Coast Ramble.

We would need to recruit officers for the LLC, file the paperwork, hire a lawyer (unless we have a member here that is a lawyer and can be persuaded to do this pro bono), and a number of other legal necessary to pull it off.

Pick the idea apart... please.

OK help me out. Is all this about insurance?

Yes, I sign the insurance sheet at Okteenerfest. What does that mean? Don't we all have our own insurance? Car and maybe umbrella liability?

Does the law consider 60 cars and 100 people at Okteenerfest as 1 entity? So if some driver wrecked, killed someone or totaled something, would we all be labial as 1? We are not currently "a club", just a group of people with the same type of car.

Just asking, I am an engineer not a risk manager.

Bob explained it at Okteenerfest by giving an example but I probably couldn’t do it justice. Hopefully, he’ll chime in.

Correct



No chance in hell

From my understanding, if you wreck your 914 at an event, YOUR insurance covers it, not the PCA. If you run over someone's dog and that person sues, PCA coverage would kick in. Also protects the event organizers from lawsuits.

@naro914 Bob knows the details much better than I do.

In a nutshell, When you sign the waiver, you are waving your right to hold PCA, it’s officers, other participants and the event organizers liable for any incidents in exchange for being totally covered for liability.
Say for example you lose a wheel while driving, veer off and hit someone on a motorcycle and kill them. The family sues you, me, PCA, PCA officers, the guy following you...everyone. Our insurance covers everything...attorneys, expenses, even any losses in the event there is a loss (assuming no gross negligence like you were drunk or something)

You’d be surprised how many times PCA gets sued for incidents that occur...and the most are on driving tours.

Yes, I do remember that discussion now. Thanks

So do they need to “support” 914’s for the event to buy the insurance? Or is it just a transaction - money=insurance, whether or not they acknowledge the car.

I hope PCA listens and we can resolve this. We certainly need more friends and allies in this life rather than fewer.

P.S. If I worked at PCA and a bunch of folks mentioning 914world were emailing me... you betcha I'd be here watching. Don't even need to register to check out The Garage.

It would be great if PCA could work this out. If they don't, I'd totally join an official 914 club. You guys are way more fun.

Manny Alban is a member here. He’d tell you I have no problem criticizing PCA. Larry Sharp is the Zone Rep for Zone 7 and he is a member here. Vu is a Facebook friend and seems 914 friendly. I wouldn’t quit PCA over this, but my local region is always very glad to see me and 914 attendance is growing.

http://914.pca.org/

I like it here better.

As we all know, the 914 community is thriving... both here and on the many Facebook groups.
If a PCA SIG's existence was based on online activity alone, then there would be very few left...well, maybe only ONE

911 SC & Carrera 3.2 - Facebook
911 Carrera 3.0 1976-77 - PCA vB forums, 41 members, inactive
912/912E - Informational site with link to Facebook
924/931 1976-1982 - 924Board.org forum, very active
968 - informational web site, abandoned?
996 - informational site with unused forum
Boxster - PCA vB forums, 3428 members, 123 active members, somewhat active?
Cayman - PCA vB forums, 4487 members, 408 active members, not very active
Early 911 Registry - PCA vB forums, 90 members, 8 active members, basically inactive
GT3 / GT2 / GT3 Cup - PCA vB forums, 3451 members, 315 active members, inactive
PCA Club Coupes - WP site, WP forums, inactive
RS America - informational web site, last updated 11/2018
Wide Body/Turbo Look (M491) - Facebook

Of the three Facebook "groups", two don't look very active at all while the third has minimal activity.
John D'Angelo is Advocate of the PCA Club Coupes SIG (only 60 of those cars produced ) and that forum is INACTIVE!!!

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=340837
Another idea PCA might consider. An Aircooled group. My 2cents.

I'm not on the National PCA Board of Directors anymore. Just a regular member. But I can tell you it's easier to work with PCA to get to your end goal than trying to start a new club. PCA has a close relationship with the factory and thus have access to better support in many areas. Someone should volunteer to be the 914 SIG Rep and contact John D'Angelo with ideas on how they see a future 914 SIG. PCA is always open to new ideas. Remember, the club's leadership is 100% volunteers. The paid staff is there as support to the volunteers. Financials are very transparent. Most of the surplus goes back to the regions to use as they see fit. You'd be surprised just how lean PCA runs.

The link to the page is gone off the main registry page.

I contacted my Zone rep and asked what the thought process behind the elimination of the SIG was. At the very least, he will get back to me, even if he doesn’t give me a definitive answer.
Thanks Manny. I thought you were in a Past President position. I guess that was a year or so back?

Manny,

Multiple people have tried to do just that. I did, and I got rejected because I "Didn't have enough national presence". Everyone here who has sent an email to John D"Angelo has not received ANY replies. But the silence speaks really loudly. They act like they don't want a real 914 person for the 914 SIG, they act like they just want us to go away.

Just my $.02

Clay

In a similar vain. I attended the national PCA event in Traverse City Michigan back in 1989. As a new(ish) 914 owner I was excited to see so many Porsche's in one place.

However, I've never felt so unwelcome anywhere. Never joined PCA solely on the basis of that experience. This thread reaffirms the decision and the fact that this site is AWESOME!

"Please accept my resignation. I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member" Groucho Marx

It was/is a dud.

I want to clarify the purpose of this post. Some of the PCA chapters are very welcoming of the 914ers. Mine has been great and has enriched my car ownership experience. We want to make sure others can feel welcome in PCA and having a SIG and an active Advocate will benefit both us and PCA. The benefit to us is the fellowship at our local PCA events and the ability to have 914 only events nationwide that PCA will cover the insurance for. The benefit to the greater PCA is membership. I have offered myself as the Advocate and been in communication with John. I think we are going in the right direction. What I need is for you guys to let him know we are here and want our SIG back. If you haven’t already let him know through the website at https://www.pca.org/special-interest-groups. No threats of cancellation but offers to join or renew will help. Message me if you think this is important or a waste of time because if John passes I want to know how hard to push back.

I just sent an email to John D'Angelo through the PCA website.

Not really expecting much but hey, at least he'll know people care ...

I just sent one also.