1st track day in the bag with the new 914, no decent pics yet (there was a photog in attendants, but haven’t seen his pics yet). Car rand great and although running with much newer machinery she was holding her own once her driver brushed off the cobwebs...

Since this was essentially her first shakedown I found a number of little things I need to address, one in particular I’m questioning:

After a few laps I noticed - mainly on a flat sweeper turn, when entering hard on brakes and trailing off while turning in I’d get a soft groan from my outside wheel (drivers in this case). I’m thinking wheel bearing? I’ve never had one go bad on the front spindle before, so I’ve never heard or felt the slight vibration before. Never really occurred on any other turns.... thoughts?

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First thing that comes to mind is "You could actually hear something like that?" Need to turn up the volume on the exhaust/intake!!
Seriously...probably bushing on the torsion bar or possibly strut shaft is dry and moaning as it's extended/compressed. Compress and release your left front by leaning on it in the quiet parking place slowly, even just slightly then more rapidly--might be able to track it down that way...
You can squirt some lube on the bushing and also mist some spray lube up into the strut cover to see if that makes any difference...

When I turn in right my front left tire touches the valence's bottom corner and makes a gurrr sound.
Is that Thermal?

Ha, car is loud, 44 webber’s and headers, it does have a muffler though, not sure how much it muffles though...

Hmmm, didn’t dawn on me that something could be rubbing, thanks, some good things to look for, thanks, I’ll get it on the lift tomorrow and check it out. Getting tech’d tomorrow am for sunday autocross. Poor thing is getting its trial by fire!

Not Thermal, will get out there sometime (been scheduled and cancelled 3x now ) but it was streets of willow... Never done anything at willow before, fun little track, although braking zones are short and I need to work on my shifting (sloppy+user error).

Took a hard look, couldn’t see any rubbing, autocross on sun, will see what she does then. In the meantime, putting on number graphics, she’s starting to look like a proper race car...

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Photo credit: @garyambrose1256

Wheel bearings usually make noise under lateral load regardless of brake pressure. That said, on track cars they're a consumable and not terribly expensive so I'd suggest switch them out.
What brakes, pads, etc are you running?
Sweet looking car btw.

Thanks! As far as brakes and pads, I’ve got A calipers in front on 3.5 struts (not sure if the inserts), Ms in the back on coil over bilsteins with 200# springs. running Porterfield RS-4 pads. Large aftermarket front sway and stock rear sway.

With street tires I get a nice gradual oversteer at limit, the way I like. I’m looking to get some 200 tread wear tires, then I’ll start tweaking from there...

I recognize that car, I nearly bought it myself but was worried that the displacement was going to run my fun in vintage racing. Somewhere I have a bunch of pics I took of that car.

I know, you were posting on thoughts about it here when I was working the final negotiations with jacquot...

Lit a bit of a fire under me, bought it in October last year then got rear ended shortly thereafter. I had just finished updating all the safety gear and giving it a good once over...

As for vintage, i used to race in the 2 liter group in a well prepped 912. Originally I wanted to get a 914 for vintage, but so cal vintage racing has changed, VARA let’s in too many non vintage cars and drivers that shouldn’t be out there, and other groups have gotten too many cubic dollars spent on cheater motors for me to be competitive.

Got this car for autocross and DE, will see if I get the wheel to wheel bug again after that....

October autocross with POC, nothing too eventful, gotta get rid of the rust, then find my balls! Had mandatory instructor for most runs, in the end let me run solo. Said he’d put in a good word to allow me a check run at next autox to get out of “student” classification.

Morning pic in the OC...

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Nov autocross, I’m starting to get hooked... definitely fun, but still prefer the big track. But this is so easy and cheap while dusting off the webs. Check run, first one out
Laid down solid 2 runs with chief driving instructor, upgraded my wristband to a real drivers band.

Another morning pic, but this time I was in good company:

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Nice driver mostly stock 2 liter, driver was a young autox junkie coming off a 2 year hiatus, all day in practice runs I was a hair quicker... then when it counted, I botched it!

My timed runs involved a little bowling, and lost time cause I forgot the course and wasn’t looking far enough ahead, so critical turns ended up being surprises where I left a ton of time on the table.... All my timed runs were over 3 seconds longer than my typical practice runs.... I watched his timed runs as I was packing up, he definitely laid down some good laps, much faster than my practice times...

Ok, so gotta work on my performance anxiety too... All in, hard to complain when finally doing what I’ve wanted to do for over 20 years now... There were 5 teeners including mine on sun, nice people all very glad to see another 914 over the newer hardware.

Back to the track! Entered the PDS group of POC, more my style as we ran Big Willow. I used Gran Turismo Sport to learn the track, amazing how much I learned in that game. Unfortunately no 914s, but I tweaked a (dare I say it) Miata to simulate my 914.

Only driving issue was in the 1st session where I downshifted from 5th to 2nd at speed on exiting turn 8 and setting up for 9 spun 2x around ended up stalled facing the right direction, but she flooded and took a minute to start back up again.... ahhh humbling rookie mistakes... the rest of the weekend was uneventful until my clutch cable pulley decided to vacate on the track on the straight.

I set out with the slowest car, and succeeded, by several, not being the slowest driver

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Made it in to the POC mag Velocity, helps when the photog is a 914 guy!

https://issuu.com/porscheownersclub/docs/ve...sMDdhZTc3OTUzNw

We need more teeners out there, give me someone to dice with!

Fast spot in the outside of 8, a spooky place to spin.. better than to go off wide on the exit of 9 though.

My schedule is already pretty full this year with The Ridge, Area 27, and Road America. I may head south in the fall though.

Looks like you're having fun. I have to say, once I got my car on track, I was delightfully surprised how durable a bone stock 1.8 is on track. Only the factory oil cooler, so the oil does get hot during the summer, but change it every weekend and it keeps on ticking. Slow a molasses by modern standards, but they are great cars to learn on.

The Rennshifter definitely helped me with my shifts. I have never done the 5-2 but used to miss shifts fairly regularly. Not sure if you have one, but might be worth looking into.

Been there, done that (2017 LRP Historics), bent all four valves...

Since then I've installed Tangerine Racing's shift linkage kit and firewall bearing and it got rid of all the slop.

As long as you realize that the 914 can never shift like a Miata, and purposefully adjust your shifting action accordingly (think "slower"), you won't have any issues.

I wa s looking at the tangerine kit. The PO did some funky stuff at the firewall where it looked like the clutch cable broke through, so I’ve been a little afraid to dig into without opening a huge can of worms during the season. The easy thing about big willow is that it’s 4th and 5th gears only track, so now that I have a rhythm (slow and methodical) shifting, I’m having no issues.

My shifting gets really sloppy with 3rd, when warm it sometimes fights. We’ll see how it goes on slower tracks. Last time I did streets of willow, I had a few issues cause there’s little time to downshift on that course, so I tended to rush.

Me too. Sheared off my flywheel bolts. Fortunately didn't lunch the top end. Got close tho. Had 2 broken valve springs when I tore it down.

It's cool to see a 914 out with POC, a fairly rare sight these days!

Spent last weekend at WSIR again, here’s 1 lap, chasing down some 911s and making a few of my own mistakes...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3R2fOphY1A

Car ran well in the AM, not so much in the heat, wasn’t too hot but she got harder to start at the end of the day. Sunday morning she fired up Like nothing was ever wrong...

Ready for the AM

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Kills bugs, not quite as fast as a turbo...

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Very cool, sounds like a fun time - I hope to join ya out on the track later this year.

That would be awesome! Hopefully in your teener, we need more rep out there, your car will certainly turn some heads!

Had 1/2 of a great weekend despite the heat. Was 115 Saturday, car ran warm but well. By Sunday, she only made it out one session before electronics succumbed to the heat. New lightweight battery, here we come! I was able to drag a friend out, he showed most of us up on his potent ‘57 speedster.

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Skipped the race in Pahrump... onto Chuckwalla!

Beautiful start to the weekend.

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Car was ready to go,

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Day one, a bit disappointing in my afternoon sessions, off 5 Sec from morning sessions???

Day two, pushed hard, my best lap of the weekend, tried chasing down a spec boxster.... then it happened...

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Kablooey! Looks like I’m in the market for a new engine... should I convert to a 6?

What are we looking at? What went kablooey?

The Type 4 oil pickup system is poor, and really sucks (actually, fails to suck) once you start putting some hard g-loading on it. Dry sump is really the way to go, and it's not very expensive or difficult.

If money is no object, go /6, you can build a monster engine with tons of power*. But if you have budget constraints then you can still make as good or more power from a /4 for the same amount of money.

GA


*But be careful: more power = more speed = I need bigger brakes = I need better suspension = I need more tires = I need more wheels = I need more fenders = I need more safety = I need big rollcage = I need less weight = I need to cut away panels = I need to fab more cage = divorce = how in the hell did I get here...?

Go 2270 or 2316 (96mmx80mm stroker) for about 1/5 the price of /6 conversion. For another $2000 or so do a dry sump and you're more agile than a /6 anyway...

I know, I’m going through that now. When I got the rear end repaired I had the bodyshop do some work on the hack job baseball bat rear flares. He did such a nice job I don’t want to go down the gt flare route with this car. I did make sure we could fit a 225 with a 3/4 in spacer though...

The pic is of all the oil coming from the top of the passenger side heads. The more I think about it, it could have been a high oil pressure issue. I had just made a mental note that the pressures seemed high just over 70psi about 30 seconds before the “pop”.

I need to drop the engine since the Fat shroud is covering everything topside. Speaking of Fat, I dropped by their shop to discuss a rebuild - yes I know their history, but I’m looking for a shop to assess the parts I have, if they’re any good anymore, most came from Fat or Scat...

I prefer the narrow body too. Can't use as much tire, but therefore can't spend as much money, either.


I just sent FAT a short block last week (arrived Friday) for a build for my street car. Asking for a basic short block build with cam so we'll see how well it goes...buy some P&C and I've already got the heads.

So what's "the history"? I heard from reliabile soruces they are solid.

Last night I was thumbing through my October 1991 issue of "European Car" ("formerly VW&Porsche") - the 914 issue - and I spotted an ad from fat: "Dial 914. Cat FAT Performance. We're always ready to talk Type-IV...Send $5 today for our parts catalog. It's chock full of stuff too numerous to mention in this dinky ad.")

The current engine is (was) a 2165 (94x78), it was definitely tired as it was originally assembled in 1998, so this wasn’t a big surprise. I have a brand new set of 96mm JE pistons that came with it, that would push it to a 2258. All signs are pointing towards the 4 build unless all my good parts are toast.

Car has a 914-6 tank and runs a front cooler, with the tuna can I never saw any low pressure issues, and that’s running Big Willow and Fontana, both long high speed, high g tracks.

Since I like running with POC, there aren’t many older cars, so the other option is to sell this car and buy a used Cayman S and start upgrading. That’s a slippery slope as well, and defeats my original intent of spanking the new tech with my old 4 banger.... I just don’t want to start throwing too much $$$ into a lost cause.

You sure it's not just a popped breather hose? I've had two instances of valve cover hoses separating from the heads on the track...and it made a mess of the track both times. To resolve this at Lime Rock '19 I had to kinda-flare the aluminum fitting with a taper, glue on the hose to the fitting with adhesive, then drill a hole through the hose, clamp, and fitting and run a cotter pin across them then goop it up with silicon. Worked like champ for the weekend.

Next pair of valve covers will use TIG'd on AN fittings with screw-on hoses. That ain't coming off.

Wow, I hope so! What are your thoughts on 72ish psi oil pressure? I’ve always heard 10 psi per 1k rpm is typical for a street engine. I was only spun up to 5k when it popped....

Sorry I missed your post, I think the gal showed me your stuff, LOL. As for history, Fat used to be the “it” company for type IVs. Won numerous Baja races with their Volkswagen based builds. Short version is they got bought out and new mgt started cutting corners and some of the old timers. They bought a great machine co RIMCO and did the same, quality suffered for a few years till they got their act back together. Now they are supposed to be pretty solid. Just watch out cause parts avail / lead time and typical auto mech communication can ruin the experience.

Ever since I got my first teener at 20, I wanted a Fat built motor. They used to be down the street from where I grew up in Santa Ana, would go with my neighbor (he had a McDonald’s sponsored Baja bug he’d run in the 500/1000) to Fat and drool over their parts... had no idea what I was looking at back then, but it always stuck with me.

No thoughts on the oil pressure. Greater than zero and I'm happy.

Though, high oil pressure would not generally cause VC hoses to pop off.

I'd say put it on the trailer and take it to a car wash. Soap it all off with a car wash sprayer, fire it up and see if you have oil pressure. If so, then seek out the oil loss, starting at the heads' oil tubes, then valve covers/gaskets, block vent, oil tower, etc. If you still have oil pressure and no bangy-bangy noises then it doesn't sound fatal.

First time this happened the swaged tube itself pulled out of the head (2L engine). Second time was the hose pulling off of the VC fitting (1.7L engine so no head vents). And it was always the outside-of-the-turn head that had the problem (either tube pulling out or hose pulling off the VC) as I suspect the liquid oil was pooling in the top end and the case pressure was blowing it out.

Those head fittings are now threaded into the head for the 2L street car, and will be plugged off on the 2L race engine to use threaded VC hoses in the race car. It's always something. (the 1.7L was a temporary/borrowed F Production engine)

I got good vibes corresponding with "Dennis" at FAT about a build. Let's see if they come through.

Well, no such luck on the damage. I dropped the motor and the more I dug into it, the more I realized it was not going to be good...

First, there was a about half a quart of oil in my header...
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Then I dropped the engine and noticed the crack in the shroud from an impact coming from the inside...
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Then all the metal falling out as I took the shroud off...
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Looks like I lost an exhaust valve, then all hell broke loose...

Hmmm decisions....

Holy moly

those "windows" in the case are a clear sign of the rod needing more space

Ooooowww....

"So what happened?"

"Cooling system issue."

"Oh?"

"Yeah, a rod went through the cooling shroud."

^^^

So this is basically why I went -6 after nervously running a -4 on the track for a couple years...

Re. POC it's gotten depressing how few older cars are out there - meaning 986/996 era is now "classic" and the action is in the BSR and 911 GT3 type stuff. I've thought about moving to a BSR or Cayman but would have to sell a car for budget and space and don't want to... I may go check out VARA next year as well (finally)

lolz.. depressing not many 40-50 year old cars out there.. vs only 20 year old cars.. Time has a way of moving on.
Other than Historic/Vintage clubs, I don't see a lot of 40-50 year old cars out there to begin with.. and most of them have drivers/owners that are even older!



As to the OP, sorry to see/hear about your engine woes. Yes, decision time on where to exchange money for an engine

Just got off the phone with Dennis at FAT, looks like I’ll be staying with the 4. I got good vibes from him too, he seemed excited about building another type IV.

He’s going to check out the parts I have, see if they can be reconditioned to use in the new motor. I don’t think any of these will make the cut...

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@infraredcalvin - ouch.

Sorry to see it man, ouch ouch ouch.

Ooooohh.... that hurts... Did it destroy the crank too?

Keep us posted on the Fat Build. I'm penciling out a spare for my race car.

I can't see any way that the crankshaft survived that. Even if it did, I'd be hard-pressed to use it (I broke my 2L crank in the middle last year.)

The FAT team is rebuilding my 2L street car engine now...

FAT provided my 80mm stroker crank which is a new forging (not a welded up turned down OE crank) and put in 5 dowel pins vs. the stock one pin. IIRC the crank is only about $550 or so--deal for sure.

FAT was the deal back in the Hot VW&Dune Buggy days. Do you have a HP/TQ target?

Yup, the old FAT was next to my dads work growing up, I used to wander in there and drool over all the shiny parts as a kid. Promised myself a FAT build someday when I bought my first 914 as a poor college student. Finally almost 30 years later here we are.

We’re talking about 2 different target builds depending on condition of my 78mm crank, 195 hp if mine is refurbish-able, or 205 using their 82mm crank. But we’re talking about a durable performance engine vs max hp.

As far as my blown parts , old engine had(s) a scat forged crank, it looks surprisingly good, some chew marks on the counterweight, needs to be checked out. Cam looks ok too. The carillo rod (and je piston) took the biggest bashing, bent and snapped the end cap bolts. Adjacent rod has a ding in it, and it’s piston has a ding on its face, they’re most likely junk.

What may have saved the crank was the thinner walls of the cylinder, looks like it pushed right through the top of it, taking a portion of the case with it.

All will get throughly examined, measured, and tested before reusing anything. Overall wear was surprisingly minimal inside engine, crank and cam bearings could use freshening, but could still see crosshatching on surviving cylinders, pretty good for a 20 year old build with mostly track miles... always on Brad Penn changed yearly.

UPDATE:

Motor build is progressing fine, ultimately decided on a dry sump 2165cc (78mm crank, 94mm pistons). Had a few parts test out unscathed and they’ll be reused, but going with some extra machine services for dry sump oiling.

Stay tuned, much more to come... ������ ������ ������

What dry sump pump will you be running? I've been successfully using the CB pump with mods for a few years now, but it's only autocross, so shorter run times, but very high G loads on the Hoosier A7's.