Before I go piling my self or loved one in a 914 I was wondering if any one knows what safety reports have been done or where I could find one.

oh god, that's a good one ...

ok, better now...

honestly, the brakes are way ahead of their time, and they are much more rigid in an accident than one would expect... i'd say in the average, under 50 crash(with anything but a big SUV) you will probably live.. the car may not... there have been some accident pictures on here... and thankfully, the drivers usually walked away. I wouldn't call the 914 the safest car on the road though... first time you pass a pickup or SUV and you can see what oil filter brand they choose, you'll know why.

I just installed an air bag in the passenger side....I took A-ron for a ride....

I don't know about safety reports (did the industry care about that in the 70's?) but I know first hand that they have good front and rear crumple zones-- as long as what hits you doesn't go over the top of front or rear end. Partly into '73 model year they put a cross beam in doors for US cars. Anybody test the stock roll bar yet? Oh ya and some will tell you to regularly practice flaming vehicle escape drills due to the plastic fuel lines. John

I have seen a car that did a roll over at 120 on the brainard international track during a PCA event by an elderly driver, was totally surprised at how well the cabin stayed in tack, the driver survived the accident, but had a heart attack as the result of it.

Chappy, is that avatar another one of your postage stamp paintings? Do you have an online gallery of your stamp work? I've seen your golf stuff, but those turkeys blew me away. I want to see more of that kind of stuff.

-Ben

Safer than a motorcycle, not as safe as a miata..

-best thing to do if you get/have one is,

1. go through the brakes, make sure they are 100%-stock brakes that work correctly will do the job just fine.

2. put decent tires on the car and go through the suspension, wheel bearings, tie rods-make sure you have good components in there so the car handles properly.

3. Learn how it handles, drive the damn thing, and figure out how it handles in accident avoidance situations.

-I put 10k miles highway miles on mine over the last 2 summers and felt pretty safe, but sure, if you get rear ended by an suv it's tires could end up in your lap...

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 1 2005, 06:30 AM)

I wouldn't call the 914 the safest car on the road though... first time you pass a pickup or SUV and you can see what oil filter brand they choose, you'll know why.

that's so funny , cause it's true.


as long as you don't get broad sided by anything larger than a yugo, or rear ended by anything with 4 wheel drive, you might live to tell about it.

the crumple zones on these cars are really good (at least from the pictures i've seen), but the problem is, the front end serves as more of a wedge (or ramp) with the height of all the new bummprs these days.

Don't worry. After you get a 914 you learn to drive like everybody is out to get you. It turns out that they can't see you so they are out to get you. It really makes you a better defensive driver.

If your car is Signal Orange then you're safe

thats true about defensive driving. you do drive a 914 like your riding a motorcycle as far as watching and anticipating traffic and other drivers. and stay out of others peoples blind spots.

just because its not as safe in impacts as lets say a five star rated mini van is no reason not to get a 914 and enjoy it.

QUOTE (JohnnyX @ Jul 1 2005, 07:16 AM)

Oh ya and some will tell you to regularly practice flaming vehicle escape drills due to the plastic fuel lines. John

plastic fuel lines That sounds like one of the first things anyone would want to replace.

A bright color definitely sounds like a good idea. I can Just see a semi's trailer crossing over and take one these cars out.

There aren't any instances of gas tanks exploding in head on collisions or is that well protected?

originally, Consumer's Report, idiots that they are, rated it "marginally acceptable" because in their slalom test they were able to make it {GASP!} oversteer. (basically, they're happy with any vehicle that requires ocean-going tugboats to turn in any direction...)

they put more air in the rear tires and were able to complete the tests without further soiling themselves.

the front and rear crumple zones work, the Targa rollover protection works, and the articulated steering column works. somewhere around 1973 the doors got intrusion beams.

but basically, cars of this vintage are from a time when accidents were meant to be avoided, not survived.

From practical, first hand experience.

The only 2 wrecks I have had in my wholde driving lifetime have been in a 914 that was sitting still. Both times I was hit by a 3/4 Ton Ford Pickup.

The first time a drunk in a 3/4 ton ford pickup rear ended me at a stoplight. He left the perfect impression of a ford push bumper and his LICENSE PLATE!! I ended up with a bruise from the seat belt. He ran from the scene. I was able to follow him until he got to his house. Cops were less than a minute behind me. He jumped from the truck and ran inside the house. Cops showed up and he answered the door in a towel dripping wed. Claimed he was taking a shower. He was not arrested, but I was able to sue him due to the impression of his license plate in the rear deck lid of my 914.



Second time an elderly gentlemen in a 3/4 ton ford pickup decided halfway through a right hand turn he wanted to go straight and not turn. He ended up driving into the left side of my 914. Ended up with a damaged fender, door, door post and a broken windshield. The targa top came off and flew into the grass next to the road. I got out and called the cops from the pay phone 3 feet away from the scene of the accident.


My conclusion is that a 914 is a tough little car. Both times I walked away without a scratch.


BTW.. the car in both wrecks is the one I am doing a /6 conversion on.
I have a weird attachment to that car.

QUOTE (rfp @ Jul 1 2005, 11:18 AM)

plastic fuel lines That sounds like one of the first things anyone would want to replace. A bright color definitely sounds like a good idea. I can Just see a semi's trailer crossing over and take one these cars out. There aren't any instances of gas tanks exploding in head on collisions or is that well protected?

Plastic fuel lines are fine - probably preferable since they are flexible. Most newer cars today come with plastic fuel lines.

The exploding gas tank is mostly a Hollywood myth. But in any case, the 914's gas tank is well protected.

after 30 years, do you REALLY want to risk it? really? it might cost $30 in fuel lines and a day to put them in...

i think the main fuel problem was the cloth covered rubber hoses splitting and you cant tell, cus their covered.

Keep the spare wheel up front at all times, it's of great help in case of a front impact. Also if your gas tank explodes from an accident you're allready waiting in line to go to heaven or hell.

I thought most engine fires started actually in the engine compartment not due to the plastic lines and that's why there has been a recall.

Edit: if you need pictoral description, PM me with your e-mail.

at least they tested it.

If your worried about safety, don't get a 914. Modern cars, even the small ones have years of R&D in terms of safety etc.

The 914 does seem to preserve the cabin well in front or rear impacts and the later cars have door bars but this is a small car built and designed with '60s technology.

I feel perfectly safe driving one, but then again, I've only *come very close* to dying 10,000 times... hello truck!


M

Remember the news article someone posted a couple of years ago of the 914 three guys running from the police jumped across an open draw-bridge - and made it across.... and then piled up at the bottom on the other side. They all walked away. On the one hand they are MORONS. On the other hand it's pretty cool. What other car following can claim a story like that and have documented proof.

-Ben M.

All right,

You guys talked me into it.....

I'm adding a pair of long arched roll bars that run front to rear, angle up from in front of the front bumper, pass over the cab and seats, and attach to the rear bumpers.

Then I'm gonna add casters to the bottom of the bumpers about a half inch off the ground.

When the next SUV wants to play deviant driver chicken, He's gonna hit the angled bars, push the casters into contact with the road, be pused upwards toslide on the arched bars, and deflected off to the side......


Think I'll name it "Flipper" and to pay for it I'll market a video game where you run at SUV's and "flip" them outta the way.....

Whaddya think?


Ken

Here is the thread I was talking about. Someone else can link the pictures. I'm too lazy.
-Ben M.

ps - Okay, so they didn't "walk away" per say. But there were no 'serious' injuries.

so what is the deal with the engien fires

there was a factory recall (there are links to the recall bulletin here somewhere - i think on Jeff Bowlsby's site...) for the cloth-covered FI hoses and hose clamps. to this day you can call PCNA with your VIN and verify if the car was fited with new hose under the recall - but chances are excellent that all surviving 914/4's have...

the OEM hose was marginal. the replacemnt hoses are just old.

there are very few "forever" hoses. when they get old, they get brittle, and today's oxygenated gas doesn't help.

when i pulled the carbs from my 914.6 the (non-FI...) hoses literally disintegrated in my hand.

ALL FI systems operate at high pressures and it is the responsibility of the owner to ensure that there are no leaks and that proper parts are used for any repairs.

it is prudent to carry a good fire extinguisher in any FI car, or any car that you'd be sad if it were consumed in a fire.

periodically check for leaks, and correct any you detect immediately. there have been WAY too many 914's burned to the ground when the owners smelled gas and were driving to a mechanic to have it fixed. bad idea. if you have a fuel leak, DO NOT drive the car until it is repaired. simple rule that you disregard at your own peril. it is not smart to drive ANY car with a known fuel leak - it's just common sense.

install a hyper space button, just before you get hit, hit the button and you will end up some where else...mount it on the steering wheel like a Nascar kill switch.

There are a bunch pf 914 Wreck photos on my webpage at:

http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/

ALL 914 recall docuemnts are on the webpage too...thanks Rich!

I am a believer in the late 1973 and later door beams for street driven 914s...in part because of this wreck:

I so, the issue was with the cloth covered Fuel hoses? so, if we have stock plastic hoses in good shape... should they be changed... don't fix if it ain't broke? I thought the plastic was what got brittle and broke spontaneously...

Dunno about test/ratings, but I feel pretty safe in mine...

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 1 2005, 10:41 PM)

... if we have stock plastic hoses in good shape... should they be changed... don't fix if it ain't broke? ... I thought the plastic was what got brittle and broke spontaneously...

yes, if your plastic hoses are in good shape they do not require replacement.
if your plastic hoses are not in good shape, you should consider replacement :-)

there's a few issues. 1) after "a while" - which IIRC is last production +7 years - cars don't get manufacturer/NHTSA recalls. 2) the plastic hose *in the tunnel* is almost always fine. the problem with the plastic hose is where it leaves the tunnel and is exposed to engine-room heat, and environmental UV and ozone. eventually, under those conditions, the hose gets brittle, and can break, creating a fuel leak which muct be addressed immediately. a new factor is 3) our cars don't burn gasoline any more, like they did in the 70's. 70-80% is gasoline, but the rest is "something else." i promise you the material selected for fuel lines in 1968 was not tested for resistance to some of the magick chemicals passing for gssoline these days... (914's - or any Porsche - is not unique in this regard...)

there are several appropriate alternate fuel transport methods. lots of people have removed embrittled sections of plastic line and simply used longer sections of high-pressure flexible line.

if - during a restoration or full-on paint job - the tank is out and the engine is out - you might consider replacing the lines. personally, i wouldn't use standard braided-steel sheathed hose in this application, because i personally am not convinced the neoprene is adequately resistant to the MTBE, methanol, ethanol, and other Mr Wizard chemicals a "permanent" installation requires. IMO, which you are free to disregard, the only appropriate materials available nowadays are braided-steel sheathed TEFLON liner hose - which is EXPENSIVE in AN-6 - and you don't really require the benefits the braided steel is supposed to impart in a tunnel environment -- or straight runs of stainless steel tube, which you will somehow have to attach fittings for your short runs of some appropriate flex hose.

so - to review: ANY elastomer in the engine compartment of a 30-year old car is going to have embrittlement issues. this includes wire insulation, vacuum lines, and air duct.

i think it would be great is a 914 specialist could build up a full kit of replacement stainless steel tunnel lines (appropriately sized for that V8 conversion you might do some day) along with the proper Teflon-lined braided steel flex hoses and tank connection fittings. i doubt it will ever happen, because it'd probably cost $750 to do it right and no one would buy any.

modern cars don't do this -- but the makers of modern cars are betting you won't be driving them in 40 years - just like VW/Porsche did 40 years ago...

http://www.icbm.org/erkson/personal/914STATS.HTM
Near the bottom are pictures of my 30-35mph head-on collision with a wall. Me and my passenger were wearing our seat belts and were COMPLETELY unharmed (just shaken, of course). Both doors opened and closed fine as all impact stayed in the nose.

I think it's funny how people think a front gas tank is more dangerous than a rear one (I get that crap from ignoramuses on my air-cooled VWs) If one is so concerned about safety then nothing but a modern car should be what they're looking at. You get the vehicle because you want it. Shit, life is dangerous...

damn straight... if you want safe, buy a fuckin volvo...

Is it possible to run an AC unit and have the spare tire in the trunk as well? Does it look all jacked up?

huh? A/C fits with a spare.


M

thanks for the info. My wife was asking so I thought I ask.
Better to do a little home than to send her off in a ball of flames.

So how do I go checking this crucial section and where exactly is it?

The car I' m looking at had the gas lines recently replace but I don't know if everything was replaced.

What year is it?

You need to start at the tank, and look at the lines. Check for any leaks, including all connections, and injectors.


M

I believe it is a 71 with a carb conversion.