Several years back, I used to watch the SCCA Runoffs, many times at Mid-Ohio, on the SPEED channel. It was always cool to see a few 914's running in, I THINK, the E Prod and F Prod classes.

I just happened to look on their website today and didn't see any 914's in the results. I might have missed one, but I thought I would find them in either E, F, or H. Anyone here know if there are any 914's still running competitively in the SCCA, and, if so, what class?

Nope, I didn't see any 914s at VIR.

EProd has turned into a big-engine class. You can see from the results that it takes some muscle to win there (Prather's lap record was in a BMW Z3). My 245whp Honda Civic Si is on the edge of possibility, but even then I was a mid-pack car this year.

I personally don't think that a 2L full-prep 914 has a chance in that field, certainly not without a SHAT-ton of developement (and by that, I mean tens of thousands of dollars "investment").

However, that said, this year's EP champion, Kip van Steeburg (also champ at Daytona), bought Len Hoffman's old FProd car and it has a /6 drivetrain in it. That, I think, would be a decent EProd weapon. Kip has the $$$ to fully develop that car and I expect to see him campaigning that in EP in 2020 (I actually hoped we'd see it in 2019).

FProd is a Miata class. Full Stop. Sure, there are other options (Acura Integra, for example, or an old Little British Car) but the Limited-Prep Miata is just such an easy and well-developed package that it's hard to beat.

Chris is still convinced that a 914 can be competitive in FP, and I agree with him to some extent, but the $$$$ involved in fully developing a Prep Level 1 ("full prep") 914 is a big hurdle. Between Len, Chris, and others, it's all been done, but plan on opening the wallet to make it happen.

Then there's H Prod. "Wait, the 914 is in H Prod?" you may ask. Yup. Who has noticed that the 1.8L is currently classified in HP in Prep Level 2 ("Limited Prep")? I just did this year. That car is, basically, an Improved Touring A car with 10.5:1 compression, .450 cams, slicks, and fuel injection developed around the stock throttle body (SDS? Megasquirt?) That's an attractive package, something I've been mulling over, given I have to build a replacement engine anyway (I broke the crankshaft on the 2L engine). I do have concerns with racing one without a dry sump (not allowed in Limited Prep), especially when we get to talking about grip levels of slick tires.

Of course, the hardest thing for 914s in SCCA racing is that they are very welcome in historics circles; I think I counted 4 other 914s at the Labor Day Historics (we had more last year). Go out, have fun driving, don't worry about trophies, no chance to get hit by a Miata. PCA is also starting to be more wlecome to them as well (not that they rejected them before, but PCA racing lately has been all about the more-modern cars).

And that's roughly about where we stand...

Greg,
I really appreciate your insite on the SCCA racing situation! It's obvious you not only have the knowledge, but a ton of experience. By the way, congrats on the VIR Nationals race finish in your SI. I didn't initially see your name, as I was more focused on the car model column looking for 914s. I had an 04 SI as a daily and loved it.

I understand the $$$ issue trying to make a 2.0 competitive. I used to spend a lot of time reading Raby's website, and even his high powered street engines alone are $25-30 grand. I remember when he and Chris were collaborating and were looking at a possible competitive runoff when Chris got wrecked by an idiot while warming up the tires...at least that's the way I remembered it. I think Len was obviously involved too.

Well I hope you and/or someone else can bring the 914 back to the podium in the coming years. Meanwhile, I need to do some research to just become more knowledgeable about what the criteria for the different classes are. Then, after i hit the lottery, maybe I'll get a 914 race car.... fat chance. Thanks again!

Yeah, I've been doing this for a while... BTW, the Runoffs wasn't that kind to me this year...but I made headlines...

https://youtu.be/wO6TwYRFS74?t=56



Yeah, Chris got caught up with a Miata at Mid Ohio during a qually session. Miata was scrubbing tires edge-to-edge on the track (green flag) and Chris tried to sneak by but didn't quite make it.

I'm driving the orange 914 in historics right now, but with the result of that video above, and not a lot of motivation to work on it, I'm looking maybe to bringing the 914 to SCCA racing. We'll see...

Keep an eye on Kip. If anyone can develop and win EP in a 914/6, it's him.

Wow! Sorry to see that happen to you. What exactly happened there....hard to tell... I just saw a puff of smoke and then all hell broke loose???

I can't even imagine the amount of damage done to your car's electrical system, not too mention everything else under the hood and dash. It's kind of surreal watching the safety crew extinguish the flames ....especially the first attempt, and then viewing your camera catching the rest of the situation. As I watching, I found myself saying, "Hey guys,....c'mon back....hey guys...."

At any rate, I will watch Kip and hopefully you as well in a teener!

Of all the stupid things that can happen...the o-ring between the engine block and the oil filter intercooler/oil cooler adapter blew out, dumped oil straight down onto the header below it. Poof. Burned up all the rubber and electrical in the engine compartment.

The fire under the dash was caused by the main battery cable getting compromised by the fire and grounding through engine and under-dash wiring (kill switch solenoid is in the engine compartment). All that dripping was under-dash plastic and wiring on fire. So that means everything under the dash needs replacement, too. Next design will have a fusible link at the battery (which is a dee-dah-dee for me, shoulda been there in the first place).

Thus, I'm thinking maybe just drive the 914 in 2020. Maybe I'll run it in EProd and set a goal of not getting lapped by Kip...

That was a lot of carnage due to an o-ring.....on the other hand, if memory serves, faulty o-rings were the demise of shuttle Challenger.

I raced a 914 2.0 in ITA in the 90s. Fun but out-powered, especially by RX-7 rotary power. I spent lots of time on suspension set up and got closer, but no better than mid pack.

And oddly enough, that car came to an end due to a spinning Miata.

Did you know they moved the 914 to ITB? RX-7s stayed in ITA (and as a result they regionally formed the "Spec RX-7" or IT7 classes). ITA became dominated by higher-horspepower cars like the Acura Integra and the Nissan NX2000; I built an NX2000 and won the ARRC in 2006 in it; that car had 152 wheel ponies. Today, ITA is dominated by the 1.8L Miatas.

Anyway, my 914 chassis was in ex-ITA car, cage built by Chris Foley. The car popped the engine from oil starvation at Watkins Glen circa '02 and sat for more than a decade. I got it from that guy and decided to turn it into a historics racer. Had Chris build an engine, added dry sump and Dellortos, and off we went. It has Chris' 1.8L FProd engine in it right now (thanks for the loaner, Chris!) and I'm dithering on what to do about it.

And it's not that odd or ironic to get hit by a Miata. Those are fantastic cars, very capable chassis (I've owned and raced several). They allow any driver to quickly approach 90% or more capability with average talent. The problem is that it take a lot of talent to tickle that last 5%. As you approach 95% of the car's capability you're going pretty darned quickly, and if you go just a touch too much then things go pear-shaped just as quickly.

The really talented guys, the ones always at the front, are the ones that know how to tickle that edge. The average drivers are the ones that don't recognize the edge is coming up and overdrive the car, usually meeting another car in the process...

It has been 30 years since the first Miatas hit the road. They're now vintage-eligible. But not too many older-car owners are happy with the prospect of driving with other Miatas on the track. For now, Miatas typically get their own group...

Just a quick update: SCCA CRB rejected my request to run the /4 2L in HProd under Limited Prep regs; "This classification is not recommended at this time, as 2.0L is considered too much displacement for HP."

This, despite it making the same stock horsepower as the Runoffs-winning Honda Civic Si.

Ah well. We'll keep it in historics racing for now.

Greg, think of it as a mercy killing. Limited Prep 2.0 914 in HP. . .
You'd spend massive time and $$$ to keep pace with the Honda's only to get a lead trophy for you efforts if you ever won the big show, or even just looked like you might.

true, true.

That's too bad Greg....sorry to hear it. On the upside, I just saw an apparent F-Prod 914 racecar go up for sale in the classifieds. Apparently, it has a pretty good pedigree with winning back in the early 2000's?

Maybe someone will snag it up, and at least try to run it in F-Prod again???

@Chris_Foley still has the Jonesin' to race full-prep in a 1.8, and he has the chassis and engine to do it.

Me, I'm wondering if I should request the 2L into FP at Limited Prep, build it to the regs, and then see if I can convince them it's a decent HP LP car...

Yes, Len, I'm a glutton for punishment. But aren't we all?

Ironically, Chris just posted a pic in the classifieds of his car and the car for sale running side by side...pretty cool.

Greg, friends don't let friends race 914's in SCCA. Might be time for an intervention.

Len, I don't want you to think less of me, but I submitted a letter to get the 2L into LP FProd.

Ain't the place it needs to play, but it gives me a place to play so I can demonstrate it ain't where it needs to play.

It's a disease.

Greg that'll give you a chance to show what a developed LP 2.0 914/4 is reasonably capable of. You'll get smoked in FP at the Majors (bet you can win some regionals, though), so maybe they'll reclassify you down to HP, like you want.

Definitely has all the symptoms of a disease. I can't help with a cure, but I can sure help with the disease.

Quick update. Looks like I caught the postal truck.* 2L 914 into FProd using Limited Prep specs, 11:1, .450 cams, dual carbs with 38mm chokes, cam-driven 2-stage dry sump.

Probably not going to do much with it - likely to play in Eprod with the Civic Si or HProd with the Honda Fit this year - but at least "it's a place" for the 914 to play. Teh specs might drive a few other cars out of retirement, though I think the Miata is still the car to beat.


*"You're like a dog spending years chasing the postal truck that eventually catches it and then doesn't know what to do with it." - former driving instructor

Interesting development. Any head porting allowed?

Negative. 1" port matching to intake only.

I encourage reading the GCR for details, but pretty much stock stuff except for 1.2mm overbore, stock valve sizes, rockers free (stock ratios), pistons/rings unrestricted, any ferrous rods of same pin distance, any flywheel of stock diameter, and other details.

Air cooled engine shrouding and fans are unrestricted.

Any stock transaxle gears with a weight adder. If you're feeling flush, dog gearboxes allowed (no sequential) with a larger adder. Final drive free.

Suspension components mostly free to be replaced, but cannot move the pickup points.

Stock brake calipers. Rotors of stock size but can be converted to two-piece.

Some alternate body panels allowed. Fenders can be flared but note there are wheel and tire size limts, plus track must be 103% of the car’s stock track plus 2.5 inches.

Other regs regarding airdams, interior/exterior (can cut windshield and remove rear windows, for example). See the GCR for details.

It's not a cheap class, even at "Limited Prep."

So I had considered running in SCCA with Papa Smurf. GT2!!!

On small tracks I’m good. Won the entire Big Bore group once at CMP. But at VIR I would have been smoked so bad...my top speed is only 145. GT2 cars were going 175+. I think the GT2 winner was 13 sec PER LAP faster than my best lap time there.

I know a couple of the GT2 guys. They have 600+ hp, I have 350. Seems fair right? Lol

Hey Bob. Do you mean the GT1 cars have 600+ hp? GT2 has usually been 3.4 or 3.6L aircooled Porsches, and more recently Cup cars.

GT2 has a lot of Nascar cars in it...at least what I’ve run against... maybe ARCA not Nascar but still. Nascar style. And yeah, Porsche Cup Cars..

Jeez

Exactly...

And again, small technical tracks I’m good. VIR, Road Atlanta, etc. no chance.

GT2 has been absorbing a lot of cars. The old Super Touring Over (nee World Challenge GT) cars for example, as well as the Trans Am TA2 cars...it is quickly turning into the premier production-bodied big-money classes in SCCA.