I am in the planning stages of taking my quiet technology and adapting it to a newer cheaper platform for a wider variety of folks here. I am trying to gauge if there is value in the mild steel market which I think there is. Looking for ideas and feedback. Also please note that my quiet muffler technology has been dyno proven by Jake Raby so this is not just a shot in the dark design that so many do..

Please let me know your thoughts..

Those that have my quiet 6 and type 4 mufflers please provide your feedback as well.

Fwiw, I am not sure "stainless" has the same value to most 914 owners it once did? Feel like the stainless craze was started by SSI (and others) for a very good reason: Heat exhangers were rusting out long before the useful life of a daily driven 911 or 914 was over. Or even close to over.

Few owners are using the cars daily anymore, or on rainy days (let alone on salted roads), and I suspect a nicely made mild steel exhaust component made in 2020 or later will outlast most of today's 914 owners? Particularly if some of the great modern coating options are offered, something they didn't have back when SSI got going…

Just 2 cents!

P.S. Something else worth considering (maybe?) is aesthetics. Alongside quality, power, and noise, aesthetics probably rank right up there for a lot of folks. Some want that stock left pipe look, while others want the "sport muffler" pipes (I think the 57mm Dansk setup does that best right now), but one of the things that kept me me going back to the usual suspects before pulling the trigger with Patrick Motorsports years ago was the standard "banana" shaped muffler, which is part of the 914-6 and early 911 look for me. The exception to that rule is the 914-6 GT rally muffler, with wider spilt pipes that have perforated inner pipes…which require 914-6 GT-style headers. I'd have to look again, but that look isn't far off of the 911R muffler, and I suspect there's a market for a GOOD replica of the 911R muffler and 914-6 GT Rally muffler that works with heat exchangers—as they're some of the best looking factory mufflers of all time for the 911 and the 914-6 alike. All food for thought, offered respectfully!

Pete I tend to agree.. Heat exchangers I do believe should be stainless but mufflers likely not.

Here to learn, and was wondering on your take on that.

As one of those six converters waiting to add heat back to my 914 (low priority for its current occasional use), I look at your stainless setup as very attractive @ $2700~ vs the mild steel (?) Stoddard HEs @ $3700~. Both are expensive, and while I tend to like things that look factory, there's a lot to be said for the quality of your product given reviews here (as well as the fact that it's made in the USA and from better materials). But if I look at your price estimates above, I have to wonder what mild steel HEs with a very good coating might be priced at, even as a guesstimate?

Will I rust out a set of good mild-steel HEs @ 1000-5000 miles a year over the next 20-40 years?

Wheres the Titanium option? These cars are all about light weight. We may need to have a conversation one of these days.

Pete I wouldn't make mild steel heat exchangers because of liability.. The weld joint cracking potential goes up with mild steel..

@superhawk996 no TI.. Just zero demand for that. When I owned M&k exhaust I sold about 400 mufflers a year.. I have sold 40 total mufflers since I started doing 914 stuff.. Funny thing is my muffler design is a 1000 times better then an m&k or anything else out there. My point is not enough demand.

Yeah I totally get it. I was yanking your chain.

I'm curious though if Ti would be a simple substitution for your fixtures. You know, just in case I hit the lottery.

Yes for sure it would fit..

Ben is a good friend to me so I'm biased but I think people are missing out if they are just looking at price and not comparing apples to engines. Ben's mufflers are works of art and compliment the car. They are built right and I think they are a bargain for what you get. They aren't a 2-4 year Bursch, which aren't inexpensive to begin with, but a piece that will last at least as long as the rest of the car. Old M&K mufflers sell for 3/4 of what they cost new and Ben's latest are the best yet. Better yet, there are very few exhaust manufacturers that you can call up and for a little extra, get something custom built and actually have it show up a couple weeks later. I realize 914 owners are price sensitive but I think it's more that many people are not familiar with the product than don't feel like the value is there. When it comes to aftermarket heat exchangers for larger engines, the ones that Ben makes are quite literally the only ones that are sized right, fit and provide any real heat.

Any of these muffers would polish up to a real show piece if anyone cares to put in the effort.

Welding is top notch. You would be hard pressed to do one off parts to a higher standard. TIG'd stainless is the benchmark across the industry.

Offer the MS MIG as an econo version and the SS TIG as the up market.

You get what you pay for!! I’m running Bens heat exchangers and quiet muffler on my 3.2. Best product and service out there. I think I would of still paid the premium even if you had a cheaper option. Like Mepstein said I want something that is going to out live the car. I don’t want to keep repainting a muffler so it doesn’t rust.

What kind (grade) of stainless is it?

304

So I think a mild steel option might be a valid option for folks. What to coat it with would be the next challenge

Can you educate an ignoramous like me about what is gained for the extra price of TIG vs. MIG?

@bbrock

MIG saves time so costs less . TIG provides higher quality welds but takes longer so costs more.

Thanks Ben. So I assume that would translate to longer lifespan of the product? I'm just trying to understand the $100-$300 difference in price means for me as the consumer. More specifically, I'm wondering which options might be expected to last 30-40 years before it becomes somebody else's problem.

@bbrock

The steel would rust either way.. TIG steel will be stronger but to what lengths will you actually benefit.. Likely none..

If I were the consumer I would want a MIG welded steel muffler or a TIG welded stainless muffler..

Help me understand the value of mig and tig. Is it all about the appearance?

I already answered that sort of.

Mig is less precise and faster to master

TIG is all about precision and is a higher quality weld.