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bkrantz
Many of you have probably seen this, but I found an old C/D issue from April 1973. This is special to me since I was in high school at the time, a dedicated C/D reader, and wishing for my first car. This comparison test almost made me wish for a 914, but instead I fell for the winner, the Fiat 124 Spider. A couple of years later, I got one from an insurance salvage yard. That started me on the evil path of DIY auto mechanics and body work.
bkrantz
First page. The test considered all the cars eligible for the new SCCA Showroom Stock Sports Car class.
bkrantz
The 914 did pretty well, first in braking and 3rd or 4th in acceleration.
bkrantz
C/D rated the 914 in 4th place, 1.5 seconds down on the Fiat. They suggested that the stock 4.5 inch wheels cost the 914 about 1 second and a higher finish.
Krieger
Ah, the good ole days! I can't believe the Spitfire was that slow. Thanks for posting!
danschy
Oh yeah, I well remember that issue. Probably influenced my decision to buy a brand new 1974 914/2l, which I kept until 1989. I have been 914-less since then, but love seeing all the projects on this site.
JmuRiz
Wow, never seen that test before, thanks for posting!
windforfun
IMHO, the only quality car in the bunch is the 914. The others may have been faster, but the build & material qualities were poor.
SirAndy
QUOTE(windforfun @ Jan 23 2020, 12:55 PM) *

IMHO, the only quality car in the bunch is the 914. The others may have been faster, but the build & material qualities were poor.

I don't know about that. The Opel GT was a great car.
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DickSteinkamp
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jan 23 2020, 01:05 PM) *


I don't know about that. The Opel GT was a great car.
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You mean the "Porvette" stirthepot.gif


SirAndy
QUOTE(DickSteinkamp @ Jan 23 2020, 05:07 PM) *
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jan 23 2020, 01:05 PM) *

I don't know about that. The Opel GT was a great car.
popcorn[1].gif

You mean the "Porvette" stirthepot.gif

I grew up in Germany. There were no Corvettes sold in Germany.

Opel had a huge market share, the Kadett was one of the all time best selling cars ever there.

So no, i don't mean the "Porvette" or any other "Vette" for that matter ...
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DickSteinkamp
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jan 23 2020, 05:15 PM) *



Opel had a huge market share, the Kadett was one of the all time best selling cars ever there.

So no, i don't mean the "Porvette" or any other "Vette" for that matter ...
shades.gif


Sorry if I hit a nerve. The Opel was a solid, attractive car. It's nickname here in the US was Porvette due to its resemblance to the 68 Corvette and its relatively low price.
Tdskip
QUOTE(windforfun @ Jan 23 2020, 03:55 PM) *

IMHO, the only quality car in the bunch is the 914. The others may have been faster, but the build & material qualities were poor.


I wouldn’t say the Fiat was poorly built, like with Porsche FI these cars suffered in the hands of less than capable/trained care takers. A good comditon 124 is a joy to drive. While this did change over time, MGBs were very robustly built.
windforfun
I'm a bit closed minded here. 914's are appreciating in value. It was (still is) an amazing design with no real equal (unibody, targa top, mid-engine, & fuel injection with very rugged quality construction). It looks great & you can still get a ton of parts for it. My "73 1.7 doesn't leak anything. It has 48K on it & it's the most reliable car I've ever owned.
How many of these other cars are still weekly drivers without any issues? I guess if they were babied like my 914, then my point is moot. Even still, none of these other cars are as stiff & have that go-kart feel (stock version). Your brakes are disc all around & the suspension is fully independent & amazing.
windforfun
The 914 is so futuristic in design & handling. It was a true sports car. It was way ahead of its time.
Tdskip
QUOTE(windforfun @ Jan 23 2020, 10:00 PM) *

I'm a bit closed minded here. 914's are appreciating in value. It was (still is) an amazing design with no real equal (unibody, targa top, mid-engine, & fuel injection with very rugged quality construction). It looks great & you can still get a ton of parts for it. My "73 1.7 doesn't leak anything. It has 48K on it & it's the most reliable car I've ever owned.
How many of these other cars are still weekly drivers without any issues? I guess if they were babied like my 914, then my point is moot. Even still, none of these other cars are as stiff & have that go-kart feel (stock version). Your brakes are disc all around & the suspension is fully independent & amazing.


Ummm, I daily drove several MGBs and Fiats. Fiat X1/9 are built like tanks believe it or not, and has a near identical design approach (except for cooling), which is not to take anything away from our 914s, but being completely dismissive of any of the other cars referenced is a bit dubious.
bkrantz
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Jan 23 2020, 09:16 PM) *

QUOTE(windforfun @ Jan 23 2020, 10:00 PM) *

I'm a bit closed minded here. 914's are appreciating in value. It was (still is) an amazing design with no real equal (unibody, targa top, mid-engine, & fuel injection with very rugged quality construction). It looks great & you can still get a ton of parts for it. My "73 1.7 doesn't leak anything. It has 48K on it & it's the most reliable car I've ever owned.
How many of these other cars are still weekly drivers without any issues? I guess if they were babied like my 914, then my point is moot. Even still, none of these other cars are as stiff & have that go-kart feel (stock version). Your brakes are disc all around & the suspension is fully independent & amazing.


Ummm, I daily drove several MGBs and Fiats. Fiat X1/9 are built like tanks believe it or not, and has a near identical design approach (except for cooling), which is not to take anything away from our 914s, but being completely dismissive of any of the other cars referenced is a bit dubious.


My 124 Spider was relatively robust, with a few electrical gremlins, and a fussy mechanical fuel pump. Later I had an X1/9 that was 99% reliable. The only weak spot was dirt in the carb jets. It would go from running smoothly to stumbling in an instant. I got used to popping the engine lid, taking off the air filter, and unscrewing the jets. After blowing them clean, the engine ran great again.
windforfun
I'm sorry, but the 914 architecture is in a class by itself. Engine well water drainage wasn't quite figured out & the fit & finish could have been a little better in places, but the boxer motor is so smooth. There aren't enough o's in smooth to be accurate here. Anyway, the Spit was a piece of crap - you couldn't open the doors with only 3 wheels on the ground. Didn't the window handles break off the Fiats. Oh, & BTW, how quickly did they need a valve job?
Tdskip
I think a lot more Fiat 124 and MGBs made it to over 100k miles without requirjngmajor work than 914s....

Our blinders are a bit on here guys...

windforfun
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Jan 25 2020, 05:34 PM) *

I think a lot more Fiat 124 and MGBs made it to over 100k miles without requirjngmajor work than 914s....

Our blinders are a bit on here guys...


Yes, you're right. It's a love thing. I love my 914. It's one of those human issues.
Tdskip
QUOTE(windforfun @ Jan 25 2020, 08:38 PM) *

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Jan 25 2020, 05:34 PM) *

I think a lot more Fiat 124 and MGBs made it to over 100k miles without requirjngmajor work than 914s....

Our blinders are a bit on here guys...


Yes, you're right. It's a love thing. I love my 914. It's one of those human issues.


The 914 certainly feels WAY different than all of those others, and I think (except for the Fiat 124 maybe) have aged better.
DickSteinkamp
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Jan 25 2020, 06:11 PM) *



The 914 certainly feels WAY different than all of those others, and I think (except for the Fiat 124 maybe) have aged better.


I think the 914 had as many detractors as lovers of the styling when they were new...and pretty much the same now.

It would be tough to find a critic of the 124 styling then and the same now.
whitetwinturbo
..........I owned (from showroom floor new) a 1970 Opel GT 1900cc for 17 years. Great car except in SoCal no AC was tough from time to time. My girlfriend bought a 1.8 914 sometime after my Opel and it was WAAAAY better than my Opel in every way.
Superhawk996
The old days when the auto magazines would do more than just print the bullet points and the stock photos out of the press package. smile.gif
gereed75
I remember that issue and still may have it. Bunch of friends had MGB and Fiats

My general feelings - Italian engineering and design (especially the X/19) was really good, built quality and materials not so good. British sportcars were old simplistic designs, Often updated via the parts bin with even older stuff. German engineering was really good, efficiency of design being valued, and execution and materials were excellent.

The 914 was a revolutionary design compared to its peers - mid engined and practical with fuel injection no less. The aircooled motor was an efficient package (operationally and packaging wise), but the longevity of aircooled motors is not good compared to water cooled.

It just struck me as an elegant design. The mid engine thing just screams race car but the design overcame all of the impracticalities of that configuration for a street car, something that has never really been done since. Throw in the open/ hard top - wow

Mayne
I’ve always had a soft spot for the GT6. But having worked on a couple different TR6s and a TR4, I’d be wary to get one now. But that inline six is a great sounding motor.

I spent a summer driving a MGB GT, alternating daily with my Datsun roadster. I really liked the GT; it felt pretty solid and satisfying to drive.

But even when I was younger, 914s always seemed so special and unique. In the 80s, I would connive my way into a test drive whenever I saw one at a used car lot. Now I think they one of the most unique cars you see in the road. Glad I have mine!

A great car missing from this road test is the 240Z.
Superhawk996
QUOTE(gereed75 @ Dec 17 2020, 09:29 AM) *

. . . the longevity of aircooled motors is not good compared to water cooled.



Have to disagree on that point. Especially so as compared to 1970's era domestic watercooled.

I've personally run a Type 4 1911cc engine 100K miles reliably. Compare that to an era where it was not uncommon for a domestic 70's era water pumper to be largely done at 100k miles. Is a T4 as reliable as a modern water pumper? Not at all, but, now we're not making an equal comparison.

The biggest issues with air cooled were the uninformed nincompoop's that unintentionally overheated them, ran them stupid rich on carbs washing down cylinder walls, didn't change the oil, didn't adjust valves, and/or removed the cooling flaps.

Likewise, T4's do not do well (w.r.t. longevity) when hot rodded beyond their design limitations vs. domestic iron. Domestic V8's were easily hot rot rodded and supported by a huge aftermarket with proven hop up solutions. Finding knowledgeable support for the T4 engines used to be a challenge back in the pre internet era.

It is true that air cooled is not as good at managing emissions. That was the main reason for the demise of air cooled engines.

Personally, I think Porsche would have kept pursuing the air cooled motors longer if they had been able to get around the emissions issues.
EvilOlderBrother
I remember that article. It convinced me to trade my '65 Ghia convertible for a '70 914.
Root_Werks
Look how many cool and affordable sports cars you had as a buyer to choose from. That is cool!
gereed75
Good points Hawk, yea I knew some of my friends who blew up their DOHC fiats.

The simplicity of the air cooling and boxer form just fit the whole design of this car so well. Thinking more about the innovation/engineering of the 914 beyond mid engined two trunks:

Full IRS front and rear with a Suspension design that conserved interior space

Fuel tank in the middle of the car for low polar moment

Five speed transaxle

Rack and pinion

Four wheel discs

Real room for two full sized people

Targa removable hardtop

Fairly stiff open top unibody

Light weight

And the little stuff - pop up lights, air pressure windshield squirters, simple ventilation/ heat

Very elegant piece of engineering!
Superhawk996
QUOTE(gereed75 @ Dec 17 2020, 12:36 PM) *


Very elegant piece of engineering!


Adding to your great list:

Torsion bar suspension keeps weight low and more centralized vs. coil overs . Further lowering polar moment of inertia and lowering Cg.

Bilstein inverted struts available to lower unsprung mass. Virtually unheard of at that price point.

Alloy wheels available at a time when industry was almost 100% steel.
914werke
Owned or drove all but the Opel GT

"Sports cars you can race" I guess that why they left off the Vega & Pinto happy11.gif
Carbon-14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSNvegZoBJo

https://www.google.com/search?q=pro+stock+p...42&biw=1510
https://www.google.com/search?q=pro+stock+v...510&bih=742
GM's third successful aluminum block engines, sure, racing them was the first thing that came to mind, back then.
The Cosworth Vegas were and are still sporty, the marketing in the Players colors made for good sales strategy.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1976-chev...-cosworth-vega/
MM1
QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Dec 17 2020, 10:56 AM) *

QUOTE(gereed75 @ Dec 17 2020, 09:29 AM) *

. . . the longevity of aircooled motors is not good compared to water cooled.



Have to disagree on that point. Especially so as compared to 1970's era domestic watercooled.

I've personally run a Type 4 1911cc engine 100K miles reliably. Compare that to an era where it was not uncommon for a domestic 70's era water pumper to be largely done at 100k miles. Is a T4 as reliable as a modern water pumper? Not at all, but, now we're not making an equal comparison.

The biggest issues with air cooled were the uninformed nincompoop's that unintentionally overheated them, ran them stupid rich on carbs washing down cylinder walls, didn't change the oil, didn't adjust valves, and/or removed the cooling flaps.

Likewise, T4's do not do well (w.r.t. longevity) when hot rodded beyond their design limitations vs. domestic iron. Domestic V8's were easily hot rot rodded and supported by a huge aftermarket with proven hop up solutions. Finding knowledgeable support for the T4 engines used to be a challenge back in the pre internet era.

It is true that air cooled is not as good at managing emissions. That was the main reason for the demise of air cooled engines.

Personally, I think Porsche would have kept pursuing the air cooled motors longer if they had been able to get around the emissions issues.



The first Porsche I ever drove was my friend's '83 SC. He bought it with 80k miles on it . . .he let me drive it on our "little track behind work" when it had 235k miles. Did it drive like a 27 year old car? Yes-but the motor was strong and I drove the sh*! out of for a few laps because he told me to . . .felt that classic steering wiggle for the first time just past the bottom of our "little Eau Rouge".

Just a year or 2 ago I drove it again with 283k on the clock . . .ran as strong as the first time . . .that motor has never been opened up . . .nothing but routine maintenance.

gereed75
Yep, an aluminum case 3.2 with nikasil and good head studs was pretty bullet proof. Was not gonna happen with a mag case, Dilavar head stud, reactor equipped 2.7!

The low stressed T4, well maintained was pretty good too!

Anyway, for 1973 the 914 was certainly a breath of fresh air and an evolutionary sea change compared to the “classic” sports cars of the time and still pretty slick
lalee914
Road & Track had a similar article about the same time. Here is a link to my website which has the R&T article in PDF form. Search for SCCA or Showroom to find it near the bottom of the page

http://p914-6info.net/video_2.htm

Rose914
QUOTE(bkrantz @ Jan 23 2020, 12:15 AM) *

Many of you have probably seen this, but I found an old C/D issue from April 1973. This is special to me since I was in high school at the time, a dedicated C/D reader, and wishing for my first car. This comparison test almost made me wish for a 914, but instead I fell for the winner, the Fiat 124 Spider. A couple of years later, I got one from an insurance salvage yard. That started me on the evil path of DIY auto mechanics and body work.


Wow. Nice blast from the past. I recall that article. I bought a new 124 Spyder in 1973 and enjoyed it driving around California while I was in the service. My best friend had the MGB then he got the Opel. His mom had a Carman Ghia. Now I have the 914. Love them all!
MM1
QUOTE(lalee914 @ Dec 18 2020, 12:07 PM) *

Road & Track had a similar article about the same time. Here is a link to my website which has the R&T article in PDF form. Search for SCCA or Showroom to find it near the bottom of the page

http://p914-6info.net/video_2.htm



Thank you @lalee914 -great stuff!
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