Yesterday I went from Dayton to Columbus Ohio to visit an old friend. I was excited for this was the first big trip for my Teener. What a day, the sun was out, my top was off, the radio was playing some great oldies, all the stoplights to the interstate were green, and I even had an attractive woman smile at me as I passed her car on I 70.
This is the good part of my story. Now when I come home this morning the car does not want to run right. The first few miles it was merely a hesitation at about 3000 RPM. I had checked my timing and idle before the trip for I was always suspicious of my throttle position sensor, and or CHT may be off. I have a CHT on order to change out since it is only a few bucks. Well as my 80 mile trip continues the follow symptoms start to surface. There is a noise coming from the engine compartment. I is not a grinding sound, nor is it a squeak. It sounds more like a “squall” like dogs sound off in the distance when they are upset. I have heard sounds like that from my woman’s German Shepards on occasions, I have not hear that sound from her pussy – her cat only moans (sorry, I had to add a bit of levity to this story so that I do not stress about the car). Ok, sounds seems to be coming from the passenger side, and I do not want to bet my lunch money on it but the source appears to be near the distributor (which from now one in the story will be referred to as the “dizzy”). The sound is not truly in sync with the engine RPMs and at low RPMs is almost non-existent. As for the engine, it runs and cuts out, runs and cuts out. When I say cut out I mean drops to idle and if you do not hit the accelerator hard it will actually stop. By now you are wondering how did I drive it home? Well, I would get up to about 75 mph, it would cut out and I would coast and at about 50 MPH the engine would catch and I could accelerate back to about 70 only to repeat the process. I think the constant jerking has loosened all my fillings and my hands are cramped from gripping the steering wheel as I tried to avoid getting killed on the highway.

OK, in-between thoughts of death, tow-trucks, and wishing I could have sex one more time, I was mentally diagnosing what the problem was and how to find and fix it. My Teener is a 1975, FI 2.0. The dizzy has new points, cap and rotor and the spark plug wires
appear to be new. The engine was rebuilt by the PO about 6,000 miles ago. I had cleaned most of the FI connectors before the trip, and they all appear to be OK now. I first was thinking FI trigger points are bad, however, I do not think that would cause what I was seeing as I drove into town on city streets. I had black smoke billowing out the back when the engine cut out, and my gas mileage for the trip was terrible! I would think that means I have a sparking problem for if the injectors were not firing I would not be using or loosing gas. How would I test that or check the dizzy?

I now plan on making a stiff drink, and looking for any thing loose and wait for some help from you experts who perhaps have been down this road before (no pun intended).

Signed,
ALL SHOOK UP

PS, I have got to say the Teener did not leave me stranded or hanging which is not always the case with my woman. It did get me home.

rich running on a 2.0 djet can be caused by a bad mps. Pull its vacuum hose off the plenum and suck on it (enjoy the flavor). If it cant hold vacuum its kaput.

head temp sensor is a possibilty. At room temp they should be ~2000 ohm. The higher resistance the richer the mixture. But the time I had one of these go bad it was an intermittant open circuit causing the engine to stall. A quickie test would be to get a ~ 500 ohm resistor (radio shack, if you have those out there) and connect it to your sensor lead and then to ground. May need to warm engine up first with a low resistance like this. This should get the car to run fairly normally. good luck

this is EXACTLY (down to the very detail) what happened to my car. Get it checked out VERY quickly. My father drove teh car and when i got it down in Bowling Green it ran like shit. Continued to do so until one of my spark plugs melted, ejected from the head and made a BOOM BOOM BOOM sound...the engine was toast.

my guesses as to what happened (and what YOU should look for)

-NOT fuel Filter (i went through three...no change)
-NOT mps ( i have a 1.7 MPS which *WILL* make the engine run...my 2.0 setup actually had a type-3 mps, so i know exactly for certain this 1.7 mps will make the car run...just for test purposes I can come up there and help you if you would like pm me...)
-check the fuel filter sock in the gas tank
-check the fuel lines
-check the fuel pump (may be going out...i think mine was going out)
-check the FI harness.....

please feel free to PM me if you need help, I learned alot about FI and i have lots of parts to help in diagnosing.

forget what i said...mine was runnign real lean when it died.

i have a few mps's you can try, fuel pump, regulators, etc.

pm me

I would have to say that it sounds as if you are going extreme rich when it cuts out. Does your tach go to zero when it cuts out? This could indicate a spark issue as its signal is taken from the coil which is triggered by the points. The rich condition will happen with a bad TPS, a bad CHT, or if your fuel pressure is too high. Your pressure should be at 39psi. You can measure it at the nipple on the drivers side fuel rail withw cheap gauge purchased at Harbor Freight or some other inexpensive FLAPS like Auto Zone. I find that hte best approach is to rule out the obvious conspirators. Here is a check list for you (mind you, this is jsut off of the top of my head):
-take an ohm meter and check your CHT. Wiggle the wires and see if you can get it to short or open.
-Turn your key on and check fuel pressure before the engine is started. It should br dead nuts 39psi.
--start car and see if the pressure drops or surges.
-Take hose of of MPS and check that it will hold vaccume by either sucking on it (shade tree) or using a vaccume gauge. The values that you should be shooting for are on this site, just do a search.
-Fuel points are easy to check if you can get to them. Remove and look for excessive pitting or any broken springs (?) I am not sure if there are springs as it has been a while, but look for anything out of the ordinary.
-TPS, remove the cover and check the runs in it. See if they are still existant or if they are significantly grooved.


Are you seeing black smoke during the cut out, or directly after the cut out? During would possibly be one of the top problems, after sounds more like you are still getting fuel while your ignition system is cutting out and you get the smoke at the end of the lag because your ig system comes back on line and burns all of the fuel that was continuing to be dumped into your cylinders.

It is quite likely that you have more than one problem. Hey, it happens. The 3000 rpm number sounds like a TPS, but if it were the only faulty component you would be going lean not rich.

After you check these things out, which should not take very long at all, let us know the results and this will help us to diagnose the problem further.

re: fuel pressure: my Haynes says 28.4 to 29.6 psi

re: tps: car will run without it. Acceleration not as smooth, but in any event not related to cutting out or black smoke

Latest up date on my autopsy:

I took the distributor out and cleaned it. No play to say of in the lateral direction. It does move up and down a bit, but I see there is a spring at the bottom of the engine hole and I reinserted it snug. Before reinstalling I checked the trigger points and cleaned them and lubed the shaft. All look OK in that department including the points (not pitted/clearance OK).

The question regarding when the engine cuts out, no the TACH does not go to zero it seems to keep reflecting what the engine RPM are.

I took a Head Temp Sensor reading with my meter, 550 Ohms (engine warm) ; I replaced it with a 475 Ohms resister fresh from Radio Shack. The engine starts but runs rough and the RPMs must be kept up, forget about idle, it goes into death throws after a few seconds. I need to time it but will need a partner to keep the Revs up and bring more beer.

I have yet to take the TPS out and look at it. I did take a hose and test the MPS. I sucked on it until my tongue got a hicky! Granted I am not a hooker that can suck chrome off a trailer hitch but in my humble opinion, the diaphragm is good. The was not the case with my Ex wife and the conception of my second son. Still trying to make joke so as not to sound too desperate on this board, but there is a bit of panic in me for I do hope to take this baby to the Michigan Mid West Classic this August.

OK, back to what else I saw, I took the #3 plug out and it was a stick of charcoal! Boy am I running rich, looks like I am burning coal, not gas.

One more bit on news, since I may have more than one problem. The howling or noise I hear is not from the distributor, but more to the back at the passenger side and under the car. When I first heard it driving or being at a stop light, I played with my clutch thinking it may be the throw-out bearing, but I recall, they only make sounds when the clutch is depressed right? Or am I wrong? I do think it does not fully release the clutch for that Reverse /neutral/ reverse test often make my gears grind….I may jack up the car tomorrow and listen closer.

OK guys…I am done for the night, I thank all of you in advance for any insight and support I get resolving this issue.

QUOTE (brp914 @ Jul 4 2005, 04:05 PM)

re: fuel pressure: my Haynes says 28.4 to 29.6 psi re: tps: car will run without it. Acceleration not as smooth, but in any event not related to cutting out or black smoke

Ah, 29n it is then. It has been a while since I did the D-jet thing. More tomarrow. Too drunk to think now....Happy 4th

See your's is a '75; mine is a '76.

If you still have an air pump, look to the drive pulley below the engine that runs off the main pulley - its a goofy set up at best; mine was seizing, made a horrible noise and was causing the engine to run poorly or seize (due to smog pump belt not spinning and thus creating massive friction on the main belt/pulley thus causing engine to slow/stop).

After meeting smog requirement, I removed the smog pump assembly and all was well.....no more growling and no more seizing......

QUOTE (MarkG @ Jul 5 2005, 09:31 AM)

See your's is a '75; mine is a '76. If you still have an air pump, look to the drive pulley below the engine that runs off the main pulley - its a goofy set up at best; mine was seizing, made a horrible noise and was causing the engine to run poorly or seize (due to smog pump belt not spinning and thus creating massive friction on the main belt/pulley thus causing engine to slow/stop). After meeting smog requirement, I removed the smog pump assembly and all was well.....no more growling and no more seizing......

Good attention to detail, Mark. I totally missed that it was a '75. Good point on the smog crap.

Nice try guys,
but my 75 has the air injection/smog pump removed.

I talked to Britt Dodd of KY today and he has encouraged me to do further testing of the MPS. My giving it a suck my not be the true acid test so I will go to my FLAPS tonight and get a vacuum tester. I will also consider checking the fuel pressure.

The more I think about it, is it possable that the engine gets so rich at time that the spark plugs would not fire ? Cause my inital feeling was that I had a distributor problem, but my dizzy looks to be OK.

Perhaps tonight my Head Temp guage has arrived. I will replace that also. Is there anything else in that system that could be making it run rich ?

This problem has got me thinking about it all the time here at work. I havent thought about my job or pussy all day and I am thankful my boss took an extra vacation day today for I just worthless here.

oddly enough, the engine runs like crap if TS1(the intake air sensor) is unplugged. I speak from experience. I'd try to see if you can get any reading at all from that sensor, as I don't recall the correct resistance.

besides that, I don't know of any other sensors that need to be checked. D-jet is a very simple injection system.

Let me know if that mps doesn't hold vaccuum. I have a couple we can plug in for testing purposes.

It may also be the brain as it is resposible for controlling pulse width. If it were to crap out it could cause your situation. Do you know anyone with a spare brain that you could plug in for a check? It would be simple. I may have a spare late model brain in my stash, but I am real busy so if anyone else would be willing to step up take them up on it.

i have a 2.0 brain......like i said gimme a call and i'll bring my goodie box

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jul 5 2005, 12:02 PM)

i have a 2.0 brain......like i said gimme a call and i'll bring my goodie box

anyone want to start a pool to see how long until dralf is posting a WTB carb ad with Britt "helping" him??

Did you check all the plugs?

Did you clean it before putting it back in??

I havent thought about my job or PUSSY all day .
Yea you gots a problem.

I think it is a vacuum leak on your intake. Like SPLIT HOSE OR JUST PLAIN FELL OFF. one of them sneeky little suckers that you can see from the top.

I suggest you get laid have a beer OR TWO. then get back in the garage. sound you explained is a vacuum leak. check the intake gaskets at the heads. if one come a little loose the gasket will act like a reed of a flute and scream really loud. "like WTF is that" loud.

hmmm. my bet is a loose CHT wire.

what do your spark plugs say?

i'm going to try to help someone else out. I have parts that work more or less, and that way we can eliminate different things. Although I have carbs, I respect other people's decision to stick with FI.... and i'm going to help out any way I can.