So... the engine is in (I’m using the NaroEscape -6 front mount) and, seeming because of the mount, it sits lower than stock. The Patrick Motorsport -6 shift linkage rod I intended on using, wont work. It interferes with the engine case and doesn’t seem to have a workaround. If the engine were 1/4” - 1/2” higher at the firewall, it looks like it would slip in, but alas, the engine is not going anywhere, lol.

I’m tempted to just bend the PMS bar end upward (maybe a couple inches from where it goes from the narrow shank to the bar rod) to give it the clearance but that would change the angle it goes into the rear bushing and connects to the shift lever... so I figured I’d ask if anyone else had an issue with the bar hitting the engine case and any options I might have. I’m OK with modding the old -4 rod too. Might be worth a shot but figured I’d ask here first.

The other threads I found look like the stock rod modded is the move.

Thanks

RichClick to view attachment

I would call James Patrick on Monday. He had to bend my previously installed PMS bar when i had Bens exhaust setup installed.

You will have to bend it in 2 place otherwise you will get binding @ the gearbox connection,are you tail or side shift? ,my engine was the same being too low,it appeared the repop factory bulkhead mount was welded in the right place but something wasn't right with the engine mount so I cut and rewelded it.
The whole issue if the engine is perfectly positioned in the enginebay its makes it very hard to remove because of the tinware which is hard to remove (in situ) and is in the way.
I don't remember of hand how much I moved it upward but I did found the engine was more horizontal in the opening instead of being nose down if that makes sence,the rear "breast plate tin " fitted better in to the rubber seal also so I knew I was close to correct.
I build a custom shifter set up from the crappy rear rod the PO supplied and ditched the factory alloy coupler,now running 2 uni-joints and a double metal bush console.
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Lots of measuring cutting ,adjusting ,machining and pulling it apart many times but it works very well....huge improvement.
Good luck.

Good job I also built my own shift rod, this is the best set-up for the 914 side shiftier.
Chris at tangerine can hook you up with this shift rod set-up.
http://www.tangerineracing.com/transmission.htm

Rich the rod you have can be modified to work.

My conversion side shifter mechanism was a straight shot, no bends. I made it from scratch and used an Apex helicopter joint. Also made my own nylon bushing rear slider in a lathe. Ben's heater boxes were not in the way.

Your mount must be pretty low.

I purchased the PMS shift rod for my -6 conversion; side shifter and Maddog motor mount. I had a minor clearance issue with it rubbing the engine casing, with the mount welded as per guidance.

I could see from how the engine tin aligned with the apron surround - the rubber seal was not sitting correctly- that the engine was (maybe) 5mm too low in the chassis. It looked as though if I raised the engine slightly then both issues would be helped. I made up some shims to go under the 911 sport mounts from 6mm material; and that did the trick. Not sure if your mount allows the same hack...

So - my advice would be to double check the engine is sitting at approx. the right height, before modifying the linkage?

- Tony

Looks like they are needing some dimensional guidance for proper installed height..
unlike the 911 bulkhead style,,[washers] there is no adjust ability

:blink:Naro needs to post about this..Most want factory engi.height..Pretty simple info sheet would benefit them and customers...

naro how does the engine tin fit ?
patrick factory height

Thanks everyone. Just getting back around to this issue now. Had I known the engine was going to cause shift rod interference sitting as low as it does, I would have asked Translog to weld it in 3/4" higher. I welded it exactly where they say to weld it. It looks exactly like that blue pic above.

The rod only moved back/forth and rotates so I'm not dealing with any side clearance issues with the heat exchanger box... just the bottom of the engine case. I think I can "notch" it where it will go under the case, back up and straight into the side shifter guide without any funky geometry.

-Rich



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Maybe something like this...

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I had the same issue with a conversion I did for a customer. I had to cut the bare half way through in 2 spots about 3 inches apart. Then I welded a flat plate in to reinforce. This allowed me to clear the case just enough.

This looks to be a pretty straight forward modification to the rod. @mb911 Is welding the mount 3/4" higher and option or will this cause other interference or geometry problems with the driveline, tin, "levelness" angle etc...???

I would highly recommend it .. I personally have now gone to suggestions of using either the Rich Johnson mount or the maddog OEM style to eliminate this issue. The heater valves are also an issue that has to be worked around with the Naro mount.

Yea... I havent even gotten round to the heat valves I'm just hoping I get SOME heat to defrost the windshield. Just worked out some fresh air blower motor gremlins yesterday so fingers crossed, LOL.

Yea I agree... I'd say if Naro made the bottom of their mount plates like 3/4" taller so it lifted the engine up 3/4" but still lined up the same on the firewall ridges, it would be much better. The engine tins would seal correctly, the shift rod clearance wouldnt be an issue, and the only other issues would be with the line to the rear brake valve and whatever I'm not seeing yet with the heater valves. I dont see the benefit of it sitting as low as it does now.

I’m using my oem rod but rotated it so it clears the engine and Ben’s HEs. I had new holes drilled for the pins on both ends. If you’re going that way be sure to drill them correctly. It’s not just a hole, it bevels back so the pin seats properly. A machine shop will have the right drill to do this. The fox hangs down a bit and I plan to cut it and add a straight section one of these days.

I'm dealing with this same issue right now. I had already welded in the Naro mounts before understanding their issues.

I recently got a hold of a Patrick mount which looks to mount the engine in the proper place according to some measurements taken by another member. The Patrick cross bar can be swapped in, as the spacing is nearly the same. It raises the motor .62" ,which is good, but it also pushes the motor .60" closer to the firewall; which with the Naro mount already being .5" closer puts the engine 1.1" closer to the firewall altogether bringing the axles and trans mounts that much further forward, potentially causing more issues.

I have decided to modify the Naro cross-bar by welding on some machined/threaded offset extensions which will push the bar up .75" hopefully placing everything in proper alignment (although still .5" forward).

Another note is that neither the Naro nor Patrick mounts were anything close to flat at the engine interface- both being out about .125". I was able to "adjust" the Naro mount to flat by percussion persuasion and light lapping, but due to the design the Patrick mount is non adjustable.

There are aspects of each companies engine mount that I think are better than the others solutions, but neither are perfect.

I do have a fixture to modify the stock rod if you using stock engine height.. Let me know if anyone needs that mod done..

https://youtu.be/62qQqz_GOT4

I thought it was hitting one of the header pipes but its actually tapping the heat exchanger box so with a little luck adjusting it, it MIGHT clear as is... otherwise, modifying the bar even in the clocked repositioned orientation would probably do the trick. We'll see. I'm gonna snug the set screws down a bit and see how far the side to side action actually moves the bar.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62qQqz_GOT4

Anyone else using a stock -4 bar just clocked/re-indexed? Does it throw off the shifting due to the geometry of the bar end at the gear selector lever at the side?

You can't use a stock 4 side shift bar as is in any way, shape form, or fashion; it's got to be modified. When I was making shift bars I would use an early tail shifter and use those bends. I quit doing them when 3 other guys started making them too. No animas, just not worth it for me.

Basically the bar needs to go about 1/2" down and away from the centerline (looking from the back of the car at the firewall) at about 8 o'clock, then back up the same way at the back. Also the rear that goes into the side shift console isn't straight, it's got a bit of an angle to it. All you've got to do is take off the coupler clamp it in a vise and you'll see the angle at the tail end that you've got to maintain

I have a friend that bought the Naro mount and
decided to have it professionally welded in.
He hired a welder out of the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard
to do it. When done, it was too low for the tin to line up
and the shift rod didn’t clear.
Welder builds Submarines, so I found it hard to believe
he installed the parts wrong.
Took some serious modifying to get it to work...

Noted. Yea, the rear section into the side shift guide being "not straight" was my concern. I know the guide allows for some play but its so important for the alignment to be correct that it simply wont shift into all gears correctly if its off/out. I'm gonna play with it a little... There's not much else I have to do to get it driving so I guess a little trial & error with making a shift rod is my new end to 2020, lol.



Yea, I think the consensus is the Naro mount, when welded in as instructed, is simply not right. It sits too low for the engine tin to mate up to the rubber seals and it causes interference with the shift rod. I'm bummed but I'm not taking the engine out to re-weld it 1/2"-3/4" higher. I dunno... maybe I will. I hate that it is so off. Very disappointed.

This is disappointing. Maybe the Naro Racing people will chime in here with a solution...

Yup I did the same thing.. Thats why I can no longer recommend the mount for street cars.. Race cars sure no problem but street car with heat, engine tins that should seal are a no go..

Again I do have a fixture to make this work out of a 4cyl side shift rod if anyone needs one done let me know.

I don't know if you all have seen these posts comparing the Naro and Patrick mounts side by side, but it's in this thread:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=PATRICK++MOUNT

It would be nice if Naro offered a stock location crossbar moving the engine up 3/4" and rearward 1/2". It would not be too hard to jig up for that.

@richpugh I have a modified shift shaft that Ben did for my build. It has a slight bend and will be used with the oem style mount. You are more than welcome to try it out since I'm not close to that part in my build. Just let me know, I'm probably about a 30 - 40min drive for you.

Thanks! Will totally try it out! I'll be there in 45 minutes! LOL.
You avail this weekend?

Skimmed thru... Yea, that would be nice. A new engine side portion of the mount wouldnt be too terribly hard to fab up or modify. Something that can allow the mounts to stay where they are but position the engine up 3/4" and further towards the rear about 1/4-1/2"... Maybe thats the move. I'm gonna get it moving under its own power first but perhaps I should start modding the engine side cradle and bar to actually position the engine more close to stock.

I'm not terribly mad at Naro. They didnt sell the product as anything other than a race mount and clearly said it positioned the engine lower. I just didnt know it was going to cause shift linkage interference.

I’m sure I’ll send my /4 rod to Ben....maybe in a box with an old one of his (at least I think so) sport muffler to rally muffler modify

I will be around all weekend. Shoot me a PM with your contact info.

Rich and Nick the only issue with using that linkage I moded is it was not modded for a naro mount

Understood Ben. So do you have two jigs, one for the Naro scape setup and one for the OEM style?

For a naro mount I would have create a cut out to clear the chain case on the engine otherwise the same fixture.

Oh boy - I was planning on welding in the Naro Mount on my /6 today. This is giving me pause...

If you do just weld it 3/4" higher then it says. Also note I found that it pulls the trans mounts forward about 7 degrees which translates to the mount being to short aft in my mind.

I made my own RJ copy mount*, I mounted the bulkhead mount to the motor, then I raised the engine and trans into position and bolted up the rear trans mounts. I got the engine raised up to where I wanted it to sit and I tack welded the mount in place. I put in enough tack welds to hold the weight of the engine, took out the jack and confirmed that it was sitting correct with full weight.

In lining up my home made bulkhead mount I found several areas I had to mod and/or clearance before I tacked it in. I got it right first time but I could have easily cut out the tack welds and reposition it if needed.

Only when I was totally happy and tacked in did I remove the engine/trans and fully weld in the mount.

* Special thanks to @peteyd at RD for laser cutting the parts for the mount.

That is what I did with my 1st conversion.. This time I made a factory copy and used the mad dog engine side and used factory measurements.. Was spot on and works perfectly.

Not mounting the bar to the engine and then mounting the engine with transmission and bolting up the rear mounts is the OP's big mistake.
This step must be done every time...I don't give a flying fuchs who made the mount.

@tdskip try to return the naroscape if you can and go with the mad dog oem. Its a little more, think I padis ~400 for the mount and bushing, but it will be worth it having everything sit where it is supposed to.

Sounds like there are going to be mods either way. I'm going to mount my Naro Escape mount 3/4" higher with engine and trans installed to make sure installed height and angles are correct. This will be my first conversion on a 914 and like everyone else, will deal with whatever modifications need to be made.

This >>> 100%. Maybe even higher up... the front rubber seal would slip under the -6 engine tins if it were up almost an inch. It absolutely pulls it forward too as my trans mounts are at the very limit of what I would consider safe, lol. It pulls the engine closer to the firewall which may translate into being off for the shifter too...

Here's the gap I'm left with at the front and rear rubber seals using the Naro mount installed as instructed. Like I said and others have suggested, if youre going to use it and want the engine to fit closer to how the stock 6 would fit, welt the mounts UP 3/4"-1" on the firewall from off the bottom ridge.

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Lesson learned. Listening to the manufacturers installation rules/guidelines/instructions was my mistake. It simply DOES NOT position the engine in a good place (for my goals, at least)... so... I can do what you suggested, re-welding the mounts to the firewall in a higher, more ideal position but it doesnt fix the situation with the engine being about 1/2" too far forward closer to the firewall. The firewall kinda pitches backwards slightly so it might move it back marginally.

I will either:

1. Drop the engine, re-engineer the crossbar/cradle portion of the Naro mount to position the engine UP 3/4" and further rearward about 1/2"... Decent work but massive improvement.
2. Re-weld the firewall mounts up 3/4" UP and deal with the forward positioning... not ideal but better.
3. Leave it just as it is and just mod a shift rod bar to work... probably what I'll do in the interim.

I test fit it to see how far off it was and made a few marks to denote the extreme limits of the shift rod position when shifting forward/rearward.

The 2 center-most marks on the bar denotes the area where the case touches the bar in neutral (if the bar were connected). The forward most and rear most marks denote the furthest place the case would contact the bar when shifting forward and backward.

Looks like your bar would be perfect if it were notched at about 60mm from the rubber boot lip, to drop down, go straight back until about 135mm then go back up and continue straight back.

Ignore the dripping CV axle flanges... LOL. I havent cleaned them, re-greased them and replaces the gaskets yet.

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So... Something like this would work. Ignore the rudimentary drawing and orientation of the bar. Pretend its correctly oriented horizontally and this would drop down...

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Hey Ben, think you could make another bar like the one you made that I borrowed from Nick, but put a nice big notch in it to easily clear my -6 case? Pic posted above is the general parameters that would work.

This is what they did to the 914-6 race cars
back in the day to clear a tab on the early aluminum
911 cases..

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Yes for sure.. Let me know.. Also note if you send it please send to my new address.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...39906&st=40

Please see the last page. A bit of info