Watching motor trend, and saw a 914, and thought okay, I'll watch that, don't like the show all that much. Interested in the concept, engineering can be a bit off as can the logic.


Place battery box in the 914, they decided to load from the top down via the engine bay. Save yourself the trouble and build from the bottom up, and place the pack on a stand and lower the car over it. Come on.....

But the usage of the Tesla rear motor should make a nice run at it. It is the details like that that drove me nuts. But in the first few minutes of the show, I started linking pieces together. UK fitter of modern electronics into older cars, specifically AirCon. Its got to by Classic Retrofit guys. Then I say some of the parts being prototyped, and while I am not a huge fan of the center console, and wish they took the time to redo the fresh air blower, it works.

Show Vintage Voltage - Season 1 Episode 10

Click to view attachment

Aircon bits original console and side vents piped in.

Click to view attachment

Production on the car stoped due to COVID-19

Not a huge fan on the changes they have planned to the body, but each their own.

I get making it more aero, but come on Ronal Turbo wheels are not any more areo than lets say a Mahle Gas Burner. And in an EV I would go for lightness and low drag over looks any day. So hopefully the car comes together, it looks good, and we end up with another potential aircon solution. Not being a petrol car, means the electric aircon can be placed anywhere, so crafty placement might still be on us.

BTW, could nt find a way to share the video link, only Facebook and Twitter.

I caught part of the episode last night and recorded the rest of it to view later.

Like you, I'm not a fan of the wheels--especially since they are utilizing adapters. I did think it was cool they welded in an Engman Kit.

At least they didn't put these Ronal wheels on it:



When someone says "Ronal Wheels", I always end up thinking about them.

I saw the show last night. Going to to be one ugly build. Looks like car will be completely out out balance with 20 batteries onboard. Lots of home made electronic goodies supplied by owner/engineer.

Yes, and well I can't image what is it 320 HP and -4 brakes. Yes it will stop well once, but again and again.

Jonny is a good guy and makes an incredible electric ac system for 911's. I wouldn't dismiss his 914 effort just yet.

Mark, I am not doubting that, matter of fact I respect his A/C and other work, I do not respect the engineering going into the EV build, or his overal vision. But he is not building the 914 he outsourced it to a different group of chaps. He is providing a vision and the A/C parts, and other bits, and the money.

Two things that is sticking with me.

You take an engine that puts out 365HP, with instant torque. And you do not update the brakes that is just asking for issues. From the original 1.7 you have 4x the power of the propulsion system and your going to run around with 4 solid discs, and a pads about the size of a hubba bubba pack. I would rather go play craps in Vegas, at least I know I have a chance of not loosing it all.

Then you build a battery box in the engine compartment and lower the batteries through the engine lid opening. At first I though maybe they don't have a lift. Okay, I can deal, but then I see the car on the lift, and go Could you have gotten more batteries in that way? Maybe, maybe not. But at least you do not run the risk of dropping one, and taking off someones finger in the process. Build the packs and mount on a table, lower the car down over the packs. Done. Pretty darn simple.

Now I will gladly defend his right to build what ever he chooses, it is his money, he has the final say, and he earned it with his value and talents that he brings to the market. More power to you, dream the big dream.

But please stop and think about a brake upgrade.

and BTW, Jonny if you read this your 911 is

I haven’t read or seen the article. I agree, brakes are just as important as the engine.

i was watching the same episode and i wondered the same thing and i figured eventually they would figure out the could load this batteries from under? no? sometimes smart people overlook the obvious, and the owner of that shop knows 914’s , races them for 8-10 years you would think he would have more input, i don’t know what brand those batteries are but it seems if they had access to a tesla motor they could have used a tesla battery pack too..... didn’t like the wheels either, guess we will see how it all pans out down the road.

the other thing that got me was they were taking off the targa vinyl and planning on reusing it and some worn seals!!! why!! they were saying it was hard to source replacement seals and the vinyl
do they not know about 914rubber??? Someone call them and tell them! if you are spending that kind of $$ on AC etc etc surely you can spend a few hundred $$ on new vinyl and seals!!!

Another 914 bites the dust.

Can't figure out for the life of me why the DIY EV crowd seeks out 914's to destroy.

I will be surprised if it gets more than 60 miles to a charge.

The car had ALREADY had EV conversion in the 1990's before owner bought it. Info was in the opening of the show.

In our Bug the stereo altered the chassis more than the electric drivetrain. The electric motor bolts to the transaxle the same as the engine did. The front pack bolts in to the tank mounts. The cabling runs down the heater channels. The body is closer to stock now with the electric drivetrain than is has been in decades.

EV West has drop in system for a 911/912 that you could switch between electric drive train and the original gas engine every weekend. About anyone here could switch between the drivetrains in about an hour.

The conversion on the show seems a bit extreme, the torque of electric motors tends to rip things apart. I think they will have to reduce the power. It is electric you can tweak settings all you want. Though I have to admit connecting a computer to a 50 year old car is a little strange.

I was disappointed to see them cutting and welding, though undoing what they did is not much worse than the average hellhole repair.

Like mine the the car had been electric already for about 20 years. 914's and Bugs were very popular choices for high schools and colleges to convert for competition in the 90's and early 2000's. I have run across about a half dozen in Phoenix.

Maybe full out on a track. With 48kWh of batteries in a 2200 pound car I would expect closer to 200 miles if you can keep your foot out of it. Then again 914 X twistys = 90 miles. Though you recharge the battery back down the mountain.

Thanks for the correction. In So Cal, the ones I have seen running the owner said he gets about 60 miles to a charge. This is with both trunks loaded with batteries. Probably older technology batteries? I also see these cars up for sale, because like you said it was a science project and they don't want to spend the money to replace the batteries. It would be interesting to see a modern 914e project and compare the mileage, power, cornering and weight to an LS swap, subi swap or six swap.

Still cracks me up that people giggly over transplanting Subbies, Chevys, and any other ICE into these cars but go batshit over EV. I think it's cool and would love to have a well-done EV 914. Hmm, aren't most of these EV conversions Air Cooled?

Aside from the conversation about available distance w/o a charge, the one thing that has struck me for every EV conversion I have seen is that the ride height never seems right. They all look like they have lost a bunch of weight and no one replaced the shocks or springs. They all seem to ride way to high.

I think it's the opposite. They usually weigh hundreds of pounds more with all the lead batteries.

I only get giggly over vintage aircooled swaps and fabrication work that some of ya’ all do!

I understand modern performance EVs. They simply can’t be beat for off the line 0-60 numbers.

What I don’t get is why build a substandard EV off an archaic platform like a 914 without AWD to ground the power, a 914 EV won’t be competitive with a Tesla model S P100d that can haul 4, still has trunk space, heat, A/C, more range, power windows, etc.

But to each his own, I’m merely expressing a personal opinion and preference. I don’t mean any ill will to the project. It’s their property and they can do what they will.

It took some effort to get the bug's ride height right. We found a way to add more batteries to the back. The engine was heavier than the electric motor and batteries.

Lead batteries are not used any more. The lithium batteries are about a quarter of the weight for the same amount of power.

I agree but I've only seen 914's with lead batteries. I have not seen any of the newer builds. Granted, I'm in Delaware and not exactly the tech hot spot of the country.

They were keeping the vinyl as a template for cutting new

ah well, still, it’s old and out of shape, just order it from 914rubber

Hi 'teeners!

Believe it or not I only just got to see the Vintage Voltage episode as it only aired just now in the UK. As with most things in TV land, things are not quite as they seem, so I thought you might like to know more about the car.

I bought this car 5 years ago from California, the PO bought it as a roller and converted it to electric power 20 years ago, he used it for his commute to work. It was a typical first generation conversion with a fork lift motor mated to the transmission.

I met Moggy a few years back when he was working out of his own garage and we needed some help with the conversion, mainly the fabrication of battery boxes and engine mounts. Months passed and he was getting more attention so was struggling to find time to do the car. After 18 months he phoned to say that he was moving to a bigger premises and to tell me about the TV show. So the goalposts really moved.

In parallel, Classic Retrofit was also growing and you just can't do everything! Moggy's place is 6 hours drive from us and we had Covid lockdowns and travel restrictions. It just made more sense to get his guys to do more of the work. We have collaborated on the layout and design of the conversion all along.

The main goal was to retain the weight distribution. We have achieved 49(f) / 51® with a total weight of 1200kg. Although that is 250kg more than the ICE 914, it is pretty much the same as a 911SC, but we have 300HP and instant torque.

We considered putting the batteries in from underneath but this didn't work out because of the strengthening required for the rear of the car. The battery supports that you see in the show also strengthen and tie the rear swing arm mounts together which is a weak point. As well as the cabin strengthening we also have the inner wheel arch plates and the swing arms are boxed too. The drive shafts are custom made and heat strengthened to deal with the torque as 930 units have been snapped like twigs. So there is a lot going on in a small area and it is immensely stiff and strong now.

Although the Ronal turbo wheels look great on the car in the show, we could not make them work so the car will run a 911 bolt pattern. The front end is 911SC and the rear has custom made adjustable shocks/springs but still the original diameter. Because we are retaining the narrow body, we are limited to 8 inch rear wheels. We want good weight transfer on launch to get those tyres to stick so the compliant full size spring is important.

Brakes. 911SC or Boxster fronts. VW/Audi rears with electric E Brake.

The car still has a full rear trunk and 1/3 of its front trunk.

Interior. We are currently going with a retro modern look but this changes on a daily basis! Obviously it will have our electric AC and heat and lots of other toys.

The car is a rolling development platform for all things 914 AND EV. The electric drivetrain is really only the beginning of the story.

More info here..

https://www.classicretrofit.com/blogs/news/...vintage-voltage

thanks for posting the info and updates, please post afew pics here too and keep the page current, i think there is a lot of interest in it. My son and i bought my 914 12 years ago with the intent to do a conversion to EV but several things got in the way, one was just the expense for the batteries at the time and lack of range, so since it is a rare color and numbers matching car we restored it instead.
but i still would love to do one and do it right, and now with the technology finally getting to the point were that is feasible. love the development of the batter boxes. i think using Tesla components is probably the way to go . looking forward to the rest of the story.

I would love to see how they piped in the side vents. Did they have to cut the body?

A lot of the 914s that were early conversions to EV are the ones you see that only have 50-60 mile ranges and both trunks loaded with lead acid batteries.

The tech has advanced a LOT over the past 15 years that I have been following it - both in terms of batteries, motors and controllers.

As to why 914s get picked for this? Well, for years they were CHEAP! And they were mid engine cars with two full trunks that you could load batteries into. Plus they looked cool.

Now days they are not nearly as cheap, but they still make fantastic platforms for EV conversion due to the mid engine layout and lots of space to hide battery packs. They still look cool. :-)

Zach

^ it’s the layout that makes it perfect for an EV. We have a near perfect weight distribution, 150+ mile range and sub 5 second 0-60. Still have a full rear trunk and enough room for a couple of bags up front.

The 914 was never sold in the U.K. so it’s a rare thing over here.

Maybe its blasphemous to say, but I've also been considering a 914 EV conversion to use as a daily driver. Although, I have to admit, its less about saving the planet and more about driving a classic car with serious performance potential

Good TV show - they have done some fun cars

They most certainly were, Jonny, just not in RHD. Around 250 were sold in the UK.

A couple of years ago, at Supercar Sunday (a regular event in SoCal), I waited until the large parking lot cleared out, as I had a chance to drive a 914EV loaded with lead-acids. At that point I had recently driven a few 914's with a range engines - carbed 2.0L's, injected 1.7L's, carbed Buick V6 odd-fire, carbed SBC V8 . . .some wide-bodied, most narrow.

It seemed that larger than stock tires ruin the nimble steering very quickly, and that those lead-acid batteries were far too heavy - they killed the light character of a stock 914. The torque was fun, no doubt, but the interesting and eerie silence, I fear would wear off fairly quickly . . . at least for a weekend " mountain climber."

Frankly the narrow SBC was the most fun, by far, as the rear could be kicked out with control (and big smiles), but the fear of grenading the transaxle (with 1st locked out) and the (pre-war 3-speed-like) oem gearing, as well as the fact that even a gloriously-sounding, cammed SBC seems out of place in a light Euro sports car, significantly dampened the experience.

I would love to properly drive a 914-6 in the hills by my house (driving one down the street and back didn't really count) as I suspect that is the sweet spot (though some here have noted) that they also feel and handle heavier than the fours . . .100 lbs. or so may not sound like much, but in terms of engineering, especially on a mid-engined car, 5% can be a significant change to the balance and character of a car.

Nonetheless I'd be happy to accept 5-10% if I could have a Miura SV drivetrain in there instead of even the Tesla!

Group 914-SV build, anyone?

Same here in So Cal. I have seen several really nice professionally done cars, but always have heavy lead acid batteries, no trunks and only around 60 miles a charge capability.
Looking forward to more details on this build.

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40

A guy could get this set up and with a good reinforced body with out to much rust (no rust seen) and build a car. I have a very nice 74 Body for my V8 conversion that could be used for this.
Bob B
Click to view attachment

Wow, are you sure? My 914 was originally converted years ago but still had Lithium batteries, albeit old school ones.

Anyhow, now we have 42kWh of modern LG Chem Lithium Ion batteries, which should give 150 - 180 miles of range depending on weight of right foot and HVAC usage.

We are also integrating some other new tech, notably power brakes (Tesla) and power steering.

If you offered a kit minus the batteries due to shipment weight, with battery trays, detailed instructions like your AC offerings with at least a partial trunk, I think there would be quite a few interested parties. I agree lithium has been around for awhile. I don’t know why the ones I have seen were all lead acid batteries. Probably due to cost since most of these were high school or college experiments.

About 20 years ago it was a popular engineering project at high schools and colleges to convert a 914 or Ghia or Bug to electric. They were cheap rollers. I ran across about 4 engineer project 914's before I bought mine. The downside id students tend to butcher wiring and drill holes all over the place.

Seemed to me that the whole story was cut short due to COVID. Are there any plans for a follow up show?

If I ever win a big lottery, I am going to hit up Porsche's special wish department. I want to buy a 914, and have them put a Taycan drivetrain under it.

Then I would take it to Parade and kick ass at the AX.

and then Betty would kick your ass in the auto-x

I one day hope to be able to afford one of Johnny's excellent AC kits for my 911.

Every time I see a new vid from EVWest it makes me want to convert every aircooled I own to electric power

Yep... that's my girl....

I build a fast 914. She drives it fast.


Clay

Cost is totally the reason why. For the past 15 years homebuilt EVs have been the land of tinkerers and experimenters and students. These types of people usually don't have big budgets, and the proof of concept is that the car moves on its own power even if the range is short. Spending bigger money on bigger and lighter batteries may not make sense for the guy that just wants a torquey weekend warrior car the probably won't be going more then 50 miles on a post school/work/weekend blast around the neighborhood.

The rise of EVs as "common" daily drivers and the availability of better parts and batteries is going to lead to better EV conversions.

I will fully admit that when I looked at EV conversion for my 914 my threshold was "could I do it cheaper then rebuilding my TIV." At the time my answer was no - but that was before I knew I'd be building that engine three times. lol. If I had built it as an EV I would have lusted over old tech (new at the time) lithium batteries but would have ended up with lead acid and shorter ranges.

I love seeing builds like this one, and I hope we get to see how it turns out.

Don't tell anyone, but I still think about EV for the 2002 I'm building. Not that I've been able to go and work on it for the past year. Thanks COVID.

Zach

It's been a long journey but we finally have the 914EV road legal here in the UK. We did a small local Porsche show this weekend - first time it has been to a show under its own power.

If you watched Vintage Voltage you'd have seen a very different car but this is the vision I had all along despite what the TV might have led you to believe. The interior is scratch built - we even moved the steering column to centre of the driver seat.

The car is phenomenal to drive. 1250kg, 50/50 weight, power brakes, power steering and of course 300HP from the get go. All the engineering in the rear cradle and strengthening has paid off - no creaks or rattles, no flex, not a peep from the targa top.

I left the show in convoy with the GT3 in the photo. The 914 is just a fast to 80 mph and actually quicker in the twisties. Insane!

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

At the end of the first part, they said we would see it when it was finished. Are we ever going to see that episode? Cheers