Greetings,

Fairly new to the forums and owner of a 1972 teener. I bought the car last spring with a slightly hot rodded 2.0 and a side shift conversion. The true upside is ZERO rust, I have a lift and have inspected every inch of the car.

The issue I have is that the oil filter flange is leaking badly (1qt/20 miles). Upon inspection it appears that the upper nut can not be removed without removing the oil cooler. I have new oil cooler seals and the oil filter flange gasket coming from Auto Atlanta. Question is, has anyone ever removed the filter flange in the car? I really would rather not perform an engine drop this week, but I will if needed.

Just a little background, until 5 yrs ago I was an Audi dealer shop foreman for 25 years. As a result the nuts and bolts don't bother me at all. It is more current time constraints and the want to drive the car.

Thanks,

Daniel

Wecome to 914's.

Two rules of 914's.

1) No such thing as zero rust. It's there somewhere. By the time they arrived on our shores from overseas via boat they had surface rust beginning inside various panels that you can't easily see into (sail panels, longitudinals, etc.). You just haven't found it yet. But seriouly, there are some really nice cars out there sounds like you've found one. Great job!

2) Almost all serious engine work is better performed by dropping the engine. It's a mid-engine thing. Sure there are lots of people that find ways to do things with the engine in the car. But, the reality is that it is so simple and easy to drop the engine that it is usually faster to just do that than to fart around trying to keep the engine in and then working twice as hard to access parts. Yes, this applies to the oil cooler.


Before you assume it's the oil cooler or oil cooler seals, check the oil pressure sensor. They often leak and then the oil drips down around the flange that you're seeing.

Thanks, for the response.

I know, there has to be some rust somewhere. Lets just say there are no holes I can find anywhere.

As far as dropping the engine, i have no issues doing it. I would just rather not if I don't have to. It looks like you can remove the three oil cooler nuts in situ and and slide the cooler away to change the seals, but it appears it will still overhang the upper edge of the filter flange and not allow removal. As far as the oil pressure sender (switch?) I assume you are referring to the unit on top of the case just behind the distributor. I will head to the shop and check it and report.

Thanks,

Daniel

Yes, the oil pressure swich.

There are most certainly people that have replaced the cooler and seals with the engine in the car.

However, dropping the engine makes it a much easier job and then allows you access for inspection of other things (leaks, mouse nests inside tin, etc.) and helps ensure that when you reinstall the oil cooler that the seals are in the proper position.

Once you've done a engine drop or two, it literally is a couple hours of work. Trying to remove fan housing tin, the fan housing, pulleys, etc. with engine in the car is more work in my opinion.

All mid engine cars (Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, Fiat X/19's, etc.) are all more of less this way. Just easier to drop the engine.

Just checked the oil pressure switch, dry. As a matter of fact the case is dusty around it. Usually an active leak like this will wash any dust away.

Sounds like I will probably just drop the engine/trans this morning. I was hoping to wait until the fall as I need to rebuild the trans. 1st/2nd syncros are junk and will probably need 2 operating sleeves and dogs as well. With Porsche parts prices what they are this will be a pricey repair.

Thanks,

Daniel

Honestly, I owned a Miata for years after my 1st 914 got wrecked. Initially I thought the Miata parts would be way chaper than Porsche parts but really they weren't that much chaper.

Post on the FS/WTB forum and you'll likely find what you need at reasonable prices.

If I recall, it wasn't that long ago and someone was selling sleeves, reasonably unworn syncro's, etc. Most of the guys selling on the classified forum are just trying to make parts available to those in need at resonable prices.

If you haven't messed with Porsche 901 transmissions get the Dr. Evil transmission repair CD. Worth the cost and he has some funny little comments in there to boot. There are a couple fo special tools that can be made of bought to make the trans work easier and to make sure you don't end up with misalignment of the shift rods, etc.

Thanks,

I have not done a 901, but I have done Audi 016, 01E AND 01A as well a a 915 and a 930 box. I actually love doing trans work it makes me remember what it was like to actually fix things rather than just bolt in units. I actually just remembered that I also did all of the syncros in my X1/9 20 years ago.

By the way, 996 Superhawk, fun bike. I have a love for V/L twins as an ex Ducati owner (3 new ones). Current steed is a 1993 FJ1200 with 90k on it (bought with 6k) and an RZ350 bored and stroked to 421 with R1 suspension.

Regards,

Daniel

I was assuming that is what the FJ1200 was. Thats a bunch of miles

I'm a fan of twins in any configuration. No Ducati for me yet but I will have one before I die. Love the sound of those jangly clutches. Tried to start the Guzzi last week. No go. Need a new battery.

Buy the Harbor Freight hydraulic lift table. The 800 lb version. It will support both the engine and tranny. Easy peasey. You just need to get the car up in height far enough. Thought I read you had a lift so all is good. I can do my carb'd engine in 1 hr 45 min. Just did it a week ago.

Thanks for the input guys, money is a little tight right now until I start a new job in (fingers crossed) 2-3 weeks. So buying the HF table is not in the cards, although I might be able to talk my father into it as I need to do an engine drop on his 86 911 for a clutch and fuel lines.

What Guzzi? I had an 850 Le Mans back in the day, loved it. Rolled through the twisties nicely and just kind of lumped along.

Daniel

All right, I am going to attempt to post a picture of the 914 as I bought it. I will admit I am not the best at posting pictures to forums.

DanielClick to view attachment

Beautiful 914 you have there.
Missed my 1st 914 same color as yours and the wheels. But maybe you can do 5 lugs also like what i did to mine before I sold it.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Well, I bit the bullet and dropped the engine/trans. Not bad, 40 minutes to the ground. I should mention it has twin webers which I am sure makes it easier. Found both nuts holding the oil filter flange to the case about two turns loose and the gasket blown out. I feel confident that the new gasket and possibly a drop of blue loctite will fix the oil leak. I also will reseal the oil cooler while I am in there as a matter of course.

Any other recommendations "while I am in there"? Valves are adjusted within the last 500 miles, pushrod tubes are clean and dry.

Thanks,

Daniel

Miracle of all miracles, all of the oil stays in the engine (for the most part). I replaced the oil filter flange gasket and resealed the oil cooler. Checked the valves while it was out and tidied up the engine bay a bit. The fuel lines were looking pretty ragged, so I replaced them with modern German hose rated for ethanol fuels. Took it for a 20 mile road test and not a drop in sight.

Thanks for any input.

Daniel

Rather than create a new thread, I am going to jump on an oil leak thread that is already out there that is in the same vein.

I've pulled the drivetrain to do some leak repair. I know I need to do pushrod tube seals and valve cover gaskets. I assumed I had oil galley plugs leaking and possibly oil cooler, so I pulled the shroud.

I have not cleaned the case, so the oil you see there is as it was when I pulled the fan housing. I see greasy engine but not the heavy dripping I see on the ground. I do see oil dripping off the filter bottom in the car and now seeing the top I see oil pooled on top of the filter stand. I do not see indications of oil coming from the cooler or cooler seals, the oil pressure sender, the oil filler box, etc.... (yes, the copious amounts of sealant used is cringe worthy and not my doing)

I have thoughts of stuck oil pressure relief valve, crack, warp, or defect in the filter stand, or filters that just don't seal. Has anyone seen this and root caused it?

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

There's at least a decent chance that much of your oil is coming from those seals that have the extra goop on them.

Hopefully that's not a crack I see where the oil pressure sender threads in.

--DD

Nice! Love the color. With a 914 that's almost 50 years old, there is always something to fix. That's part of the fun!

Someone else just went through a similar leak with puddling on top of the oil filter.

Problem was oil filter was not properly tightened. Simple mistake.

Same thing going on here?

OP should verify but I don’t think so. I have a casting that looks a lot like that with casting flash in that same area.

I will definitely look at it and make sure there is not a crack on the pressure sender port. It is probably casting related but need to be sure NOW rather than wonder later.

That was my first thought (hope) but the filter is snug and this has been leaking over the course of several oil filter changes.

I do have a couple spare filter stands. I am going to look very closely for defects on the sealing bead on the casting where it meets the filter, just to be sure.

You don't think that a stuck oil pressure relief valve pushing oil past the filter seal could be at fault? I hate to pull them if there is little to no chance but if someone thinks it is possible I will.

Would you pull all those threaded galley plugs and reseal them? If so, what sealant would you use? Sorry for all the dumb questions. Try not to be too hard on me. I've rebuilt 616 engines with no leaks so I know it is possible, but the galley plugs we use on those are press in replacements.

Oil pressure relief valve has no bearing on the oil filter seal. The oil filter always sees full pressure and does have its own bypass if filter becomes clogged and pressure is too high.

Click to view attachment

Far more likely to be those janky oil cooler seals. The galley plugs aren’t wet and have no direct path to deposit oil on top of the filter. I’d leave the galley plugs alone - don’t introduce new variables.

Clean everything well. Replace oil cooler seals and stay away sealants on them. Put UV dye in the oil.

Hopefully there is no leak. If there is trace it via the dye trail.

Thank you for the education, advice, and encouragement! I will take this back to the car this weekend and get to work!

That was me. I HOPE most of the oil that leaked on mine came out of the filter, but I have changed some other things, too.

I would not pull the galley plugs unless you have some evidence that one is leaking.

I sympathize with your struggle.

I didn’t want to rat on you

I was chasing an oil leak at the front end and found one at one of the oil galley plugs, could see it seeping while the engine was running. Got her fixed but still have a bit leaking from the front end.

How many do NOT leak?

@930cabman

Many rebuilds are sealed with steel plugs. Difference in thermal expansion between aluminum case and steel plug doesn’t help. Factory used aluminum plugs for a reason.

I appreciate it. But like I said in my oil leak thread, I have no shame--I would rather get rid of the leak.

When I built the engine a year ago I used Earls aluminum plugs and have had two leak. I found one behind the flywheel (repaired prior to installing the engine) and most recent this one on the other end. I completed the repair laying on my back on the shop floor and removed the engine support bar. Still not easy access, but possible. Don't tell anyone but I used a tapered brass plug. Call me a DAPO, but the leak is stopped (for now)

Brass better than steel since it’s much closer in thermal expansion to aluminum.

The trick I’ve found helpful for galley plugs in aluminum:

Heat the case and freeze the plug. I like to freeze the plug on dry ice. House freezer will work but you’ll get more shrink and more time for install of the plug on dry ice. Quickly install the NPT plug as deep as possible with a good interference fit using light coat of anti-seize on the plug to keep things moving easily during install. As the case cools you have an even tighter fit.

The downside is you’ll never get the Aluminum plug out. The aluminum hex will strip if you try. No worry - I had to drill the OEM galley plugs out initially.