for this process what will i be needing to do and get? so far i only know the following: get a hold of 2L pistons, crank, rods, brain, and cylinders. or maybe bore out the existing cylinders to 2L specs, but then again this is my first ever engine rebuild/upgrade type of thing so bring on the help! cuz this noobie is open for help

Rods, Crank, P&Cs, Heads, Complete 2.0 FI System (or change to Carbs).

or

Rods, Crank, P&C, use your heads with larger valves and use your FI system (prolly won't make same HP stock for stock due to the heads).

I can tell you I am planning same conversion. I went a got a running 2.0L with wiring harness, EFI (LJet), and full block, exaust, everything.

I plan to go through motor (unless leakdown is really good. and then drop the whole thing in.

something to consider... 96mm pistons can be had for about the same price or less, you can still use your existing 1.8 cylinders, this will make a 2056, and can still run on the stock Djet FI

one more thing... if you have the stock 1.8 FI(Ljet) you will need the WHOLE 2.0(Djet) FI setup, not just the brain.

you can use 1.8 heads that are opened up, but that will make fitting 2.0 FI tougher, personally, if you can find good 2.0 heads, it will be easier...

get Jake's VIdeo!! period, end of story... get it.

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 12:35 PM)

so then boring out the 1.8 cylinders shouldnt be done?

you can have the 1.8 bored to 96's, then you'd have a 1911...no need for new crank or rods...nice engine, had an L-Jet one and then converted it to megasquirt

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 02:35 PM)

so then boring out the 1.8 cylinders shouldnt be done?

you can use 1,8 Cylinders, not 1.7 cyls though...

up to 96mm I have heard from Jake and many others the stock jugs are the way to go (other than Nickie$)

what's the measurements on stock 2.0L pistons?

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 12:40 PM)

what's the measurements on stock 2.0L pistons?

94mm bore, 71mm stroke

k now im confused one is saying i dont need 2L crank n rods and others say i do.... would be nice for Jake to poke into the conversation...

Mike is right!!
I've got a 1911 engine with L-Jet in my car right now.
Lots of fun to be had.

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 11:27 AM)

for this process what will i be needing to do and get? so far i only know the following: get a hold of 2L pistons, crank, rods, brain, and cylinders. or maybe bore out the existing cylinders to 2L specs, but then again this is my first ever engine rebuild/upgrade type of thing so bring on the help! cuz this noobie is open for help

Can't say which way would be cheaper, but I have a *complete*, high mileage 2.0 for sale. That way, you'd have all the parts you need.....PM if you're interested in going that route.

Andy

QUOTE (qa1142 @ Jul 11 2005, 12:33 PM)

I can tell you I am planning same conversion. I went a got a running 2.0L with wiring harness, EFI (LJet), and full block, exaust, everything. I plan to go through motor (unless leakdown is really good. and then drop the whole thing in.

You have D-Jet not L-Jet on that 2.0 (unless it was a 912E engine)

QUOTE

k now im confused one is saying i dont need 2L crank n rods and others say i do.... wacko.gif would be nice for Jake to poke

A 2L crank isn't required but it's cheap enough if you are tearing down the bottom end anyway. Here's what I'd do assuming a full rebuild:

Your cylinders bored out to 96mm
Keith Black 96mm pistons
2L crank and rods
heads done by Len Hoffman with the spark plug relocated to the 2L position.
One of Raby's split duration cams if L-Jet can handle it or a stock cam if it can't.
This will make a 2056cc engine.


If you aren't tearing apart the bottom end then just for 96mm cylinders, KB pistons, and having your heads done. That will yield a 1911cc engine.

QUOTE (andys @ Jul 11 2005, 02:46 PM)

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 11:27 AM) for this process what will i be needing to do and get? so far i only know the following: get a hold of 2L pistons, crank, rods, brain, and cylinders. or maybe bore out the existing cylinders to 2L specs, but then again this is my first ever engine rebuild/upgrade type of thing so bring on the help! cuz this noobie is open for help  :) Can't say which way would be cheaper, but I have a *complete*, high mileage 2.0 for sale. That way, you'd have all the parts you need.....PM if you're interested in going that route. Andy

that would be smart... like a 'parts engine'...

1911 is not exactly a 2.0, which is why you are getting the different advice, I *think* a 2.0 is 1976(I can't remember the formula right off the bat)...

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 11 2005, 11:33 AM)

something to consider... 96mm pistons can be had for about the same price or less, you can still use your existing 1.8 cylinders, this will make a 2056, and can still run on the stock Djet FI one more thing... if you have the stock 1.8 FI(Ljet) you will need the WHOLE 2.0(Djet) FI setup, not just the brain. you can use 1.8 heads that are opened up, but that will make fitting 2.0 FI tougher, personally, if you can find good 2.0 heads, it will be easier... get Jake's VIdeo!! period, end of story... get it.

going w/ larger valves, how much would that range? say for the machine work n valves...

at the moment ive got a line on a set of 2L pistons for free, 2L crank n rods for $150, machine work on the heads and rehone the cylinders.....but right now my budget is prolly around $500

just to get this straight....i can just rehone the existing 1.8 cylinders and throw in the 2L pistons w/ new rings, and this will yield me a 1911?

stock 2.0 = longer stroke, which has more torque

a 1.8 with larger pistons will be a shorter stroke motor and will have less torque (10ftlb's ???) but it should rev up a little quicker and have a slightly higer rpm (in theory)

both are nice motors, a "true" 2.0 will be more expensive since you have to buy parts you don't already have....

You can run the stock 1.8 L-Jet on a 2.0

done it twice...no problems at all.......

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 01:05 PM)

just to get this straight....i can just rehone the existing 1.8 cylinders and throw in the 2L pistons w/ new rings, and this will yield me a 1911?

no, you cannot use 2.0 pistons with that combo, you need the correct pistons to match the stroke of the crank and rods

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 11 2005, 12:07 PM)

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 01:05 PM) just to get this straight....i can just rehone the existing 1.8 cylinders and throw in the 2L pistons w/ new rings, and this will yield me a 1911? no, you cannot use 2.0 pistons with that combo, you need the correct pistons to match the stroke of the crank and rods

thanks for clearing that up, mike! k for sure now im gonna go w/ the 2L piston, crank n rod, have the heads machined and refitted w/ larger valves, run the stock 1.8 FI system, and if i have any money left over get a cam...am i missing something?

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 11 2005, 11:37 AM)

you can have the 1.8 bored to 96's, then you'd have a 1911...no need for new crank or rods...nice engine, had an L-Jet one and then converted it to megasquirt

Mike,

Can you comment on approx HP with this motor. What about the "butt dyno"? Significant improvement over 1.8 L-Jet?

You changed to MegaSquirt for fun, not because you had to, right? How is it that the L-Jet can be used on a larger cylinder with no changes?

have i said "i love this club" lately? well i do at the moment!

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 03:03 PM)

at the moment ive got a line on a set of 2L pistons for free, 2L crank n rods for $150, machine work on the heads and rehone the cylinders.....but right now my budget is prolly around $500

depends on the shop, but $500 for a simple valve job is about what I saw it was going to cost, and thats without opening up the valves at all...

check RIMCO's website, or call Headflow masters...


don't forget to budget for Rings, Seals, Gaskets, Bearings, the little things always add up...

possibly a new cam(?) and lifters... I dunno how re-usable these are once you split the case...

like Mueller said, you need pistons with the RIGHT wristpin location for the 1.8 crank..

what would happen if i dont go w/ larger valves?

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 03:15 PM)

what would happen if i dont go w/ larger valves?

not as much hp...

one more reason to look for 2.0 heads...

at this moment i just wanna do some minimal upgrades and get the car back up and running. AND have a reliable car for the year...

QUOTE (Jakester @ Jul 11 2005, 01:12 PM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 11 2005, 11:37 AM) you can have the 1.8 bored to 96's, then you'd have a 1911...no need for new crank or rods...nice engine, had an L-Jet one and then converted it to megasquirt Mike, Can you comment on approx HP with this motor. What about the "butt dyno"? Significant improvement over 1.8 L-Jet? You changed to MegaSquirt for fun, not because you had to, right? How is it that the L-Jet can be used on a larger cylinder with no changes?

I bought the motor already as a 1911 so no "before" comparisons....I did use that car in a drivers ed course and both of my instructors thought it was a warmed up 2.0 due to how well the motor ran, I suspect not stock compression and just built correctly.

Yep, Megasquirt was done for "sh!t's n giggles"....

I'm guessing that the design parameters of the L-Jet on the 1.8 has enough range to compensate for the larger motor mostly due to it needing the range for different altitudes and air temps. At what displacement will the L-Jet not be able to work, I have no idea.

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 11 2005, 03:22 PM)

at this moment i just wanna do some minimal upgrades and get the car back up and running. AND have a reliable car for the year...

then be sure and do the things you don't want to do again...

if you are splitting the case to put in a new crank, then get a new cam and lifters... you don't want to split it again for a while if you can help it...

top end stuff is easier later... if you can get good used 2.0 pistons, use those to save some coin. and then upgrade to the 96s later down the line.

but with your budget, if the crank and cam are currently good, I would really consider the 1911 for now... and look for a seperate engine to rebuild later... as money allows...

I have a 1.8 that I plan on rebuilding eventually... I'll do it with a Raby Kit(2270) though, no other way, for me.

I added up the $$ for me to turn the 1.8 I have to a GOOD 2.0(+), and I bought a 2056 that someone else had already rebuilt... the economics just were't there...

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 11 2005, 12:24 PM)

I suspect not stock compression and just built correctly.

"Not stock compression" would be acheived by shaving down the heads (to reduce the combustion chamber volume) to just before the point where valve/piston clearance would be an issue, am I right?

Do you have any experience with this on the type IV's? Other than fuel octane, are there any issues with increasing compression in this way (i.e. head stresses, ring degradation, etc.)?

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 11 2005, 12:30 PM)

I added up the $$ for me to turn the 1.8 I have to a GOOD 2.0(+), and I bought a 2056 that someone else had already rebuilt... the economics just were't there...

Yes, but what about the economics of just the 1911 route? Are they there? To turn a 1.8 into a 1911, all it takes is bore the cylinders, 96 mm pistons and a top-end refresh (not needed, but prudent), right?

Maybe $800 (just a guess) for what gain in HP? Anyone... Bueller (not Mueller - Bueller)?

Just take a look at my sig to see why I'm interested in this thread...

if the crank and cam are currently good(basically if the engine is running now), then yes, a 1911 is not that much $$... I'd guess at $800-1000... $300-400 for 96mm pistons/rings; 500 for a head freshening(nothing fancy) and another $100 for machining the stock cylinders...

Does anyone know if L-Jet can handle non-stock, hotter or split duration, cams?

QUOTE (anthony @ Jul 11 2005, 04:02 PM)

Does anyone know if L-Jet can handle non-stock, hotter or split duration, cams?

I don't KNOW, but I've been told, that Ljet is probably the best FI for a hotter cam and bigger engine... I think 2.0 Djet tops out on a 2056 with a 'similar to stock' FI cam.

I think I even asked that question here... try a search...

after some thorough thinking...im just gonna have the heads rebuilt and find a set of 1.8L pistons. thanks for the input though gang......so does anyone have a set of good 1.8 pistons?

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 11 2005, 02:09 PM)

QUOTE (anthony @ Jul 11 2005, 04:02 PM) Does anyone know if L-Jet can handle non-stock, hotter or split duration, cams? I don't KNOW, but I've been told, that Ljet is probably the best FI for a hotter cam and bigger engine... I think 2.0 Djet tops out on a 2056 with a 'similar to stock' FI cam. I think I even asked that question here... try a search...

Djet doesn't like too much overlap so that kills the hot cam ideas right there. L jet still likes a similar to stock cam but you can change it some.

1.8 heads have more meat on them if you are going to deck them for more compression. They have 55cc chambers so take that into consideration for the compression ratio.
2.0l heads have a 62cc chambers and 1.7 are what 50cc.

Dlo, you could just run the 2.0l stuff with your 1.8 heads without any problems.

after some discussion it's narrowing down to a complete head rebuild, and upgrade to Keith Black 96mm pistons. As for the lower-end im debating weather to replace the bearings or not...

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 12 2005, 09:59 AM)

after some discussion it's narrowing down to a complete head rebuild, and upgrade to Keith Black 96mm pistons. As for the lower-end im debating weather to replace the bearings or not...

if the engine's running, and not leaking, I wouldn't split the case until you are ready to shell out the real cheese and replace the cam and crank... if you ARE going to split the case, then DEFINATELY get new bearings!

the last the this car ran it had a horrible knocking noise, my main mechanic diagnosed it as rod knock. But a week or two ago mattr and i removed the heads to discover one of the valves on the passenger side had fallen out of its seat and slapped the piston leaving an indention; half the size of a valve. So i assume the bottom end doesnt have any problems. So as for this set up im going for, the 1911 what kind of power range am i looking at? Anything better than stock sounds good to me

Wow guys- You even have me confused!

Okay...
You can stick with the stock 1.7/1.8 rods and crank and go to my 96mm arrangement to yield about 90 BHP with the stock 1.8 FI with the stock cam.

If you tear into it you ALWAYS CHANGE THE BEARINGS and then you SHOULD make a cam change to get rid of the shitty, heat generating, efficiency killing pig that the factory installed. Replace with a RAT 9550 for best results with 96s and stock FI, either 1.8 or 2.0.

If you go up to the 71mm crank and rod set from the 2.0 and couple that with my 96s you will yield 2056ccs and with the cam change you will be right at 110 BHP with 120 for torque.

As for the heads- DO NOT SKIMP!!!!!!!!!!! Have those heads 100% rebuilt with new valves, single H/D springs and chromoly retainers (By a TIV specialist) or don't even put it back together. I don't care if you have to save money for 6 more months- do it right, do it thoroughly or don't do it at all.....

I can help make this amuch easier process for you, especially with my engine rebuild video http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/p...09&cat=0&page=1
Available at the link.....

now if only everyone was this clear about my situation, THANKS JAKE! now i can finally cool my nuts

QUOTE

like Mueller said, you need pistons with the RIGHT wristpin location for the 1.8 crank..

Ok this is where I got lost. IIRC the 1.7, 1.8 rods (& crank) are the same.
I have a running 1.7 (w. Djet of course) and also have a 1.8 core eng. bad Ljet. Was planning on direct swapping the 1.8 heads and P&C's off of the 1.8 onto the 1.7 and retaining the Djet? Also I have a set of OE 94 (2.0) P&C's that I could use ...... still with the 1.8 heads

Comments?

QUOTE (rdauenhauer @ Jul 12 2005, 11:15 AM)

QUOTE like Mueller said, you need pistons with the RIGHT wristpin location for the 1.8 crank.. Ok this is where I got lost. IIRC the 1.7, 1.8 rods (& crank) are the same. I have a running 1.7 (w. Djet of course) and also have a 1.8 core eng. bad Ljet. Was planning on direct swapping the 1.8 heads and P&C's off of the 1.8 onto the 1.7 and retaining the Djet? Also I have a set of OE 94 (2.0) P&C's that I could use ...... still with the 1.8 heads Comments?

you can swap the 1.8 parts to a 1.7, no problem... the 1.8 and 1.7 have the same wristpin locale too


you cannot JUST put the 2.0 P&Cs on a 1.7/1.8 crank.... you have to change the rods and crank too...

you can you the djet with all of it... you MAY need to get the 2.0 injectors though... and 2.0 brain.

So why cant you apply the 94's to the 1.7/1.8 rod crank combo?

QUOTE (rdauenhauer @ Jul 12 2005, 09:58 AM)

So why cant you apply the 94's to the 1.7/1.8 rod crank combo?

you can.....sorta, you just have to make sure the pistons for whatever combo you want match the correct rod/crank

don't pay too much attention to bore size...........

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 12 2005, 08:23 AM)

QUOTE (rdauenhauer @ Jul 12 2005, 11:15 AM) QUOTE like Mueller said, you need pistons with the RIGHT wristpin location for the 1.8 crank.. Ok this is where I got lost. IIRC the 1.7, 1.8 rods (& crank) are the same. I have a running 1.7 (w. Djet of course) and also have a 1.8 core eng. bad Ljet. Was planning on direct swapping the 1.8 heads and P&C's off of the 1.8 onto the 1.7 and retaining the Djet? Also I have a set of OE 94 (2.0) P&C's that I could use ...... still with the 1.8 heads Comments? you can swap the 1.8 parts to a 1.7, no problem... the 1.8 and 1.7 have the same wristpin locale too you cannot JUST put the 2.0 P&Cs on a 1.7/1.8 crank.... you have to change the rods and crank too... you can you the djet with all of it... you MAY need to get the 2.0 injectors though... and 2.0 brain.

I'am surprised no one caught this yet.

The 93mm 1.8 cyl, won't fit a 1.7 90mm case, with out the extra cost of opening up the 1.7 case, also the 1.8 head doesn't fit the 90mm cyl. There was a special spacer that centered the 90mm cyl in a 1.8, 2.0 head, but it's not cost effective.

QUOTE (V6914 @ Jul 12 2005, 01:12 PM)

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 12 2005, 08:23 AM) QUOTE (rdauenhauer @ Jul 12 2005, 11:15 AM) QUOTE like Mueller said, you need pistons with the RIGHT wristpin location for the 1.8 crank.. Ok this is where I got lost. IIRC the 1.7, 1.8 rods (& crank) are the same. I have a running 1.7 (w. Djet of course) and also have a 1.8 core eng. bad Ljet. Was planning on direct swapping the 1.8 heads and P&C's off of the 1.8 onto the 1.7 and retaining the Djet? Also I have a set of OE 94 (2.0) P&C's that I could use ...... still with the 1.8 heads Comments? you can swap the 1.8 parts to a 1.7, no problem... the 1.8 and 1.7 have the same wristpin locale too you cannot JUST put the 2.0 P&Cs on a 1.7/1.8 crank.... you have to change the rods and crank too... you can you the djet with all of it... you MAY need to get the 2.0 injectors though... and 2.0 brain. I'am surprised no one caught this yet. The 93mm 1.8 cyl, won't fit a 1.7 90mm case, with out the extra cost of opening up the 1.7 case, also the 1.8 head doesn't fit the 90mm cyl. There was a special spacer that centered the 90mm cyl in a 1.8, 2.0 head, but it's not cost effective.

no one caught that because you don't have to open a 1.7, or any TIV case until you get to about 103mm pistons...

all cases are the same.

you have to open 1.7 HEADS for bigger pistons, not the case... but he's using the 1.8 heads, so that is a moot point.

1.7/1.8 pistons have a different wrist pin offset than the 94mm-96mm 2.0L ones so thats why you can't mix them up!

All type 4 cases are the same spigot opening so 90mm-100mm fit.

ALL CASES HAVE THE SAME CYLINDER SPIGOT SIZE!!

The 1.7 head ONLY had a smaller register and smaller ports and sometimes even smaller pushrod tube bores.

AHHHHH thank you Sensi