Here's the thing..... I love my Acura, but I'd really like to get something with 4 doors. My fiance is here now, my kid is getting bigger..... and we'd like to have another kid in the future.

On the other side..... I'd like to "upgrade" from the performance aspect..... so I have a couple ideas in mind.

I NEVER buy brand new.... always a couple years old, with low mileage.... and I want to stay "around" the $20,000 range.

I'm thinking an 02-03 Impreza, Lancer, or a BMW 3 series..... but I'm looking for more options.

ABSOLUTELY NO SUVs.....

Comments on my 3 choices????

Suggestions for better options??

Keep in mind.... this is my "daily driver"... so reliability is an important factor..... which means...... no American Cars.

Thanks all

what about an early 3 series? say 1987+ fun cars esp. the 325is, but not the best on gas mileage. Or just go w/ the impreze wrx. drove a buddies wrx and it hauls quite nice in stock form

I say go Impreza!! WRX baby!!
I have one and my fiance used to have a rsx type s. She now has an SUV.
My wrx (wagon) was faster than her RSX stock and now that I have put on my stage 2 upgrades (exhaust and ECU tuning) the car absolutly flies.

I'm getting about 24mpg and I have AWD for the winter. Plus with the wagon I have lot's of cargo space. You really can't beat it!!!

Oh and it's a boxer engine to boot!!!!!

i am in the same situation right now. i have a hatchback as well and i am leaning towards the MB C230 kompressor, with a 6 speed manual. fantastic gas mileage at 34+ on the highway.

my car is basically a mitsubishi... and I hate it... it's been in the shop a lot over the past 5 years, luckily I got the extended warrenty...

Subarus are fun, and safe cars... you may even like the outback... sportier than it looks. and very practical

can't go wrong with a BMW either, if you can afford it... they get pricey quick.

other choices:
dodge magnum, acura TL type S, nissan altima SE-R

I'd check out the Cadillac CTS. It's basically a German Opel, but because it's a GM car the depreciation is horrendous. You could probably get one cheap.

I've got a family of 4 - kids 8 and 6. If you have kids you need space so consider the BMW 5 series. I've got CPO 528i w/sport package, comes with the extended warranty and the car is great. Perfect size, sporty, etc

T

Subie all the way. You can get a used one for around $14-16, and get an incredibly reliable aftermarket turbo kit from Vishnu. My bf's wagon makes over 300hp and has never had a problem. Plus it fits a ton of stuff in it, and doesn't really look like a wagon. And it's AWD.

Jen

i thought your bf had an mr2....

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 12 2005, 10:19 AM)

i thought your bf had an mr2....

had. I miss that car dearly. But he sold it after he bought the WRX. Here's the info for the turbo kit vishnu turbo kit

Jen

I just bought a used 1995 Acura Legend ls 4 door with under 130k for 6k and it runs like a champ, very clean, 230hp and its my first at, but for freeway crawling, nuttin better. Very reliable, very affordable, you just have to be patient and avoid the "fast and furious conversions" they will shorten the life expectancy considerably....if you need more than 230hp you can try for a Legend GS (270hp) auto or Getrag 6-speed. I wanted a GS but didn't find one that was "right" before the one I bought came up. My .02.

Thanks for your opinions folks...... I appreciate it.

Although I'd love a Mercedes, or a BMW 5 series...... I'm afraid the cost might be a litlte too high for me. Again.. I'd like to stay around 20 or less.

I completely forgot about the Acura TL...... I trust honda, and I currently own one, and I love it.... I think I might just look into one of those if I can find one a couple years old.

Or...... yea...... a WRX. I haven't seen too many used ones though... it'll probably take a day-trip into St. Louis to find one that's the right year / mileage / price.

No big rush really... nothind "wrong" with my RSX........ just getting some options, and advice right now

Plus.... if I trade in the RSX...... the 2-piece 18s, and the stereo stay with me, and go straight on whatever I buy

for what it's worth... a buddy here just bought a 30k mile 2003 530i, Cert. Pre-owned, fully loaded(almost, no navigation), with 1 100kmi/7year warranty, for $26,000(after 4k on his trade-in, a 97 maxima)... I'd make that deal in a heartbeat... I drove the car and I was happy!... for a SEDAN, it was SWEET!

QUOTE (Jenny @ Jul 12 2005, 10:33 AM)

QUOTE (dlo914 @ Jul 12 2005, 10:19 AM) i thought your bf had an mr2....  :confused: had. I miss that car dearly. But he sold it after he bought the WRX. Here's the info for the turbo kit vishnu turbo kit Jen

What's that do to the gas mileage?

BTW, I vote WRX too.

Audi S4. You should be able to find a 2000 with low miles in your price range from a private seller.

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 12 2005, 11:05 AM)

for what it's worth... a buddy here just bought a 30k mile 2003 530i, Cert. Pre-owned, fully loaded(almost, no navigation), with 1 100kmi/7year warranty, for $26,000(after 4k on his trade-in, a 97 maxima)... I'd make that deal in a heartbeat... I drove the car and I was happy!... for a SEDAN, it was SWEET!  :wub:

thanks for the tip. i didn't think they were affordable, so i din't even consider them. but i am on the phone with the bmw guy right now. the have a 5 SPD 530i.

Ditto on the S4! An A4Quattro Avant is nice, too. The Cap'n, with 4 Audis in the Family

Here's the answer:
In '97 and '98 BMW made a 4-door M3. None since.

If you're interested, I have an absolutely imaculate '97, w/ 54,000 miles. Black on black, leather, non-luxo, 5spd, full computer, w/ 3k miles on Yoko AVS Sports. $18,000.

It took me 3 months to find "the perfect 4dr M3". I bought it to double as my work (needed a 4dr) and autocross car, but after getting it home I couldn't bring myself to autocross it. It's just too nice. I've only put 2,000 miles on it in the 9 months I've owned it.

If you're not interested in my car, but still interested in a 4dr M3, I have to tell you they are awsome. If you get one you'll enjoy it.

-Ben M.

QUOTE (bondo @ Jul 12 2005, 12:24 PM)

What's that do to the gas mileage? BTW, I vote WRX too.

anywhere from 24-30, city & freeway. Depends on how much you're on the turbo.

Jen

QUOTE (Jenny @ Jul 12 2005, 09:12 AM)

Subie all the way. You can get a used one for around $14-16, and get an incredibly reliable aftermarket turbo kit from Vishnu. My bf's wagon makes over 300hp and has never had a problem. Plus it fits a ton of stuff in it, and doesn't really look like a wagon. And it's AWD. Jen

I am very happy with my WRX. I have modified the car with parts I bought in Japan and the USA. Hauls ass and is extremly reliable......


CALLICOTT motorsports SUBARU WRX Project. Modifications include Stainless MRT Up Pipe and Turbo Back Exhaust System from Australia, AEM Cold Air Induction System, STI Turbo and Fuel Management from Japan, STOPTECH Drilled Rotors and F40 Calipers, H&R High Performance Springs from Germany, 18 Inch VOLK Light Weight Racing Wheels (Rays) from Japan on 225 Ultra Performance Tires.

I like it better than my wife's BMW.

Have you considered a VW? The new passats are really nice and affordable too.

And what makes you think American cars arent reliable? I'd be willing to bet a brand new Dodge or Chevy would be more "reliable" (whatever that means) then a 7 year old BMW.

QUOTE (MattR @ Jul 12 2005, 02:46 PM)

And what makes you think American cars arent reliable? I'd be willing to bet a brand new Dodge or Chevy would be more "reliable" (whatever that means) then a 7 year old BMW.

i agree. american cars have come a long way in the past 10 years.

QUOTE (MattR @ Jul 12 2005, 02:46 PM)

Have you considered a VW? The new passats are really nice and affordable too. And what makes you think American cars arent reliable? I'd be willing to bet a brand new Dodge or Chevy would be more "reliable" (whatever that means) then a 7 year old BMW.

Maybe, and cheaper to fix for sure, but not necessarily better or more reliable than a well maintained Japanese car like Honda/Acura or Toyota/Lexus. My last Acura Legend I bought with 80k miles and sold it at 275k mi. still running fine. The guy that bought it has 340k and just did the heads...the bottom is still good...exceptional. Also, the last Isuzu trooper I had lasted over 250k before needing rebuild, after a top rebuild it went to the tip of South America and was sold in Chilie....also not bad. I put it down to great build quality and careful maintainance.

I can vouch for the WRX.

However I strongly suggest you find a 2004 instead of an 03 or older. The WRX got a LOT nicer in 2004 over previous years. Better seats, nicer interior, better looks (opinions vary) better suspension etc etc etc. Oh and the tach moved to the center of the instrument panel, making it a real sports car.

5 series,Volvo s60, or Nissan Maxima

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Jul 12 2005, 05:51 PM)

I can vouch for the WRX. However I strongly suggest you find a 2004 instead of an 03 or older. The WRX got a LOT nicer in 2004 over previous years. Better seats, nicer interior, better looks (opinions vary) better suspension etc etc etc. Oh and the tach moved to the center of the instrument panel, making it a real sports car.

How ya liking that same size as our 02 rear sway bar that you upgraded to?

I've got a 1997 M3 with 61K, four door, loaded for sale! i could probably even deliver it to MO if you are interested!

QUOTE (jimtab @ Jul 12 2005, 04:43 PM)

QUOTE (MattR @ Jul 12 2005, 02:46 PM) Have you considered a VW?  The new passats are really nice and affordable too. And what makes you think American cars arent reliable?  I'd be willing to bet a brand new Dodge or Chevy would be more "reliable" (whatever that means) then a 7 year old BMW. Maybe, and cheaper to fix for sure, but not necessarily better or more reliable than a well maintained Japanese car like Honda/Acura or Toyota/Lexus. My last Acura Legend I bought with 80k miles and sold it at 275k mi. still running fine. The guy that bought it has 340k and just did the heads...the bottom is still good...exceptional. Also, the last Isuzu trooper I had lasted over 250k before needing rebuild, after a top rebuild it went to the tip of South America and was sold in Chilie....also not bad. I put it down to great build quality and careful maintainance.

Im not saying japanese cars arent reliable and long lasting, I just think a modern American car can hold up for quite a few miles.

Acura TL, I had a later body style 1998 2.5 Was a great car while I had it. I love the new body style and should be close to your price range for a car that is a couple/few years old. I had grown up with american cars of the late 70's and 80's and personally I wouldn't own an american car (trucks are ok with me) just from those experiences. They have come a long ways but their interior materials are cheap and fall apart easily. I have a jeep liberty now and has held up well, but you can see the cheapness abound in this car, it will be disposable in another 10-15 years.

Wow.... never expected to get this many responses....

I appreciate the offers on the cars, but unfortunately, it has to be a trade-in type deal.

Unless I can sell the RSX outright..... which would be nice. I owe around 15K on the acura..... trade-in is around 12.8K.... so I'm upside down on the trade by about $2200.

However, the retail on the car is around 17K.

I "MIGHT" could get $15K for it.... But I might have to leave the wheels and stereo in it ($4500 just in those), but I planned on pulling them and transfering them to the new car.

I'll try.... If I can get what I owe on it from a private buyer.... I'll bump my "new car price" up to 22 or 23K.

Otherwise, I don't mind taking a $2200 hit on it...... when I bought it, I was $3500 upside down on my last car.... Just goes to show you that Hondas retain their value well.

Thats another reason I don't want to go American........ I lost my ASS once on a 1997 Dodge Avenger ES (my ex wife had to have it...... lost 12K in 11 months). Bought it brand new in 97 for $22.5K....... ex wife discovered she liked the 3000GTs better.... 11 months later...... and she traded it in for $12.5K.....

Dumb bitch.

Anyway.... I'm pretty firm on Japanese or German...... No korean, no American.

I'm also pretty firm on staying with newer cars... for warrantee purposes...... I'd say that 2001 would be the OLDEST I'd go....... MAYBE 2000 if it had SUPER low mileage.

Again.... thanks all for the helpful info.

Matt

Oh, one thing on the subie. The cup holder sucks. I don't know if it got better with '04, but I doubt it. No big loss. Shouldn't be drinking and driving anyway.

Jen

Nobody has mentioned the Lexus IS300. Seems to fit your criteria pretty well.

Mazda6 might also be one to look into.

Demick

I know you said you want newer cars, but you might want to consider an e30 M3 (latest one made was '92 I believe). Very rare, unique, sporty, roomy, and German. You probably find a low mileage one for around $15k to 20k. I've seen example of 200k miles go for $8k (which is a lot for any car with that much mileage), so I'm thinking these cars are pretty reliable.

But if you want new for sure, go with a WRX wagon; lighter than the regular WRX, sporty, roomy, reliable, safe. That would be my first choice if I wanted a new car to fit my kids in.

-C.

Buy the Bimmer. Just sold my M3 only because I never drove it.

I work too much. I have a company car... don't ask what it is..

Ok folks.. I've done a little research..... actually, I can't sleep because I've been up thinking about all this, My fiance is kinda excited.... and kinda worries too... about what I decide to do.

I looked through the local auto trader...... If I were to list my car right now..... only asking payoff..... I would undoubtedly have the best deal on any RSX within 200 miles from me... even if I keep the stereo and wheels for myself.

Most of the 2002 RSXs are going for 16-17K,with 50-60K miles.

Mine has 41K miles, an A-spec factory rear spoiler, and leather..... and I only need $15,300.

With any luck.... I may just be able to sell it privately, and not worry about losing my ass on a trade in.... this is a good thing. More to follow on this one.

I researched what a lot of my interests are going for on eBay..... Strangely enough.... it seems like the one most interesting to me..... isn't what I expected... and I would have never thought to even look if it weren't for this site..... Man I love this site!!!!

WRX: I only like the STIs... and the good ones are out of my price range. Lots of "kid" owners out there with all kinds of mods.. not interested in someone else's "project". Plus..... the back seats are TINY.

Mazda 6: Don't trust em..... read lots of bad reviews

Mitsubishi Evolution: Even worse than the Mazda 6... plus, too pricey.

BMW: Too pricey for the ones I want..... plus... too common.

Acura TL: LOVE the car... but apparently a lot of people do. I only like the 04+, which is too much $$$.. the older ones look ugly to me.

HOWEVER.....................

A 2000-2001 Audi S4????????

250 HP twin turbo V6, 4 doors, 6 spd manual, luxurious interior, sporty exterior............ There are several on eBay with "around" 50K miles, that are around $20K!! Plus, they are SWEET LOOKING!!!!!

look at this one... just as an example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...gory=43902&rd=1

So whats the deal??? Am I missing something?? Or is this just the perfect car for me?? Are they pieces of crap?? I would LOVE to hear from ANYONE that has ever owned one of these.. or knew someone that owned one. Again.. I'm looking in the 2000-2001 area.

Much appreciated!!! Matt

if you are 6'+ the WRX will be too small... seriously check the outback...


I totally understand what you mean about american cars... I have one now, and won't get another... I'm so far upside down on a '99 that it's pathetic!

smart move on selling it outright though... it's always best to have CASH instead of a trade-in

you can't go wrong with Audis they are very well made!

do you like the Volvo S40?

Gotta second the IS300. The Toyota inline 6 is a sweet motor.

I checked out the Volvos...... not real thrilled with the S40....... although I liked the S60s...... some of them anyway. They look nice if they are eqipped right though.

Honestly though.... the prices are comperable to the Audi S4.... and the S4 is a much better looking car... to me anyhow. I like that the Audis are available in loud colors.

The IS300...... nice looking car... with comperable prices....... and no all-wheel-drive. For the same price, I'd rather go with an AWD... no??

Depends on what you like. I'm about as old school as they come, so the IS300 (inline-6 as opposed to V-6 and rear wheel drive) appeals to me. I like to keep it simple because I put a ton of miles on my cars, and the way I see it, AWD is just another thing that will break.

Lots of people swear by AWD, though. I've not had any experience with it myself.

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Jul 13 2005, 01:02 AM)

A 2000-2001 Audi S4???????? 250 HP twin turbo V6, 4 doors, 6 spd manual, luxurious interior, sporty exterior............ There are several on eBay with "around" 50K miles, that are around $20K!!  Plus, they are SWEET LOOKING!!!!! look at this one... just as an example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...gory=43902&rd=1 So whats the deal???  Am I missing something??  Or is this just the perfect car for me??  Are they pieces of crap??  I would LOVE to hear from ANYONE that has ever owned one of these.. or knew someone that owned one.  Again.. I'm looking in the 2000-2001 area. Much appreciated!!!  Matt

I love the S4's. I just about fell out of my chair the first time I discovered them.

I drove an A4 Avant with the 2.8 and Quattro for a while ... great car!!! Good acceleration, great handling, and it looked great, too. I can only imagine that an S4 would be soooo much more fun.

AWD to me is like a security blanket. It gives you peace of mind when the weather turns ugly.

Last year when I bought the M3, I was looking at S4's too. I couldn't find an S4 for $20,000 that didn't have 100,000 miles. That was one reason I opted for the M3. Lighter & quicker was the other reason. I think both cars are awsome though. The M3 has utterly amazing handling. It is almost too easy to drive well. As they say, it makes heros out of fools. At the very least, try one so you have a benchmark.

-Ben M.

Well thanks for all your suggestions and help folks........ I've been doing a LOT of research the past 3 days.... and I've made my decision:

I had 4 cars to pick from.... all based on the Year 2001:

Audi S4
Volvo S60
BMW 5 series
Lexus IS300

......... I've chosen the Lexus.

The Audi: SUPER car.... very fast... very nice looking. But.... rediculously expensive to fix (Twin turbo and AWD)... plus, my insurance goes up.

The Volvo: The least "attractive" of the 4 cars... my insurance goes up, so do repair costs.

The BMW: Great car, great reviews, looks great. But.... I see so damn many of them all over the place, and you get less "Bang" for your buck with a BMW.

The Lexus: Although it was the least powerful of the 4 cars, and strangely enough gets the worst gas mileage (not by much) it still provides a very reasonable 225 HP. Plus..... Its rear-wheel drive.... the only one of the 4 cars that was. Its a VERY sporty looking sedan... probably the most sporty looking of the 4. My insurance actually goes DOWN from my RSX... about $25 every 6 months (not much, but whatever)...... and lastly, the Toyota 3.0 was rated the longest-lasting, most reliabe engine of the 4 cars..... and the repair costs were lower as well.

Most importantly.... they are the most reasonably priced..... I can move up to a 2002, with under 30K miles, for around $20K... perhaps even less. Check this one out, just as an example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Yea...... I "like" the Audi better...... but for me... the Lexus just proved to be a better car for what I want, need, and can afford. I'll post pics when I buy one!!!!

Thanks all!

Matt

Good deal. I didn't know the IS300 was rear wheel drive.

Let us know how you like it. I'd be interested to hear what you think.

Oh I definately will.... I might start a new thread.,. or maybe just finish off this one. Could be a couple weeks though.. Gotta sell the RSX first.

You know what REALLY sucks..... I just talked to the bank today./..... their interest rates changed. Of course.. not for the better.

My credit is the same, the price of the car is the same (close anyway).... and I got 3.9 APR when I bought the Acura..... now they wanna give me 4.5.

That friggin sucks.

Yeah, I work at a credit union. Our rates went up this morning, too.

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jul 12 2005, 02:57 PM)

QUOTE (MattR @ Jul 12 2005, 02:46 PM) And what makes you think American cars arent reliable?  I'd be willing to bet a brand new Dodge or Chevy would be more "reliable" (whatever that means) then a 7 year old BMW. i agree. american cars have come a long way in the past 10 years.

Yeah the most recent JD Powers rated Porsche and some GM brands as the top manufacturers in terms of new car reliability over Honda and Toyota. Plenty of top rated Fords too.

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Jul 15 2005, 08:42 AM)

......... I've chosen the Lexus.

Wahoo! What do I win for suggesting the IS300???

Demick

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Jul 15 2005, 07:42 AM)

Audi S4 Volvo S60 BMW 5 series Lexus IS300 The Lexus: ..... Its rear-wheel drive.... the only one of the 4 cars that was.

I don't think BMW makes any 5-series cars that are not RWD. (The X5 doesn't count; it's not a car.)

Still, the Lexus is not a bad choice at all.

--DD