I am considering converting my 73 2.0L back to D-Jetronic EFI. The PO converted it to a single 2-barrel progressive carburetor. I have a few questions.

Fuel lines. Currently there is no return fuel line and the PO has run the supply line with 3/8 copper tubing down the right (passenger) side of the car (not through the tunnel). The fuel hose on either end appears to be clamped directly to the copper tubing - no AN fittings.

My thought was to run a second 3/8 copper tube along the same path as the supply tube for the fuel return (sharing grommets). Is this routing reasonable? or should I relocate both tubes back to the tunnel? Is copper a reasonable material for this or should I use SS line? Is it OK to clamp the hose directly to the tube in a high-pressure EFI system? (This doesn't seem like a great idea to me since there doesn't appear to be anything keeping the hose from getting pushed off the end of the tube by fuel pressure). If not, what type of fittings do you recommend? I was thinking of flaring the tube ends and using AN fittings.

Component Locations. I have all of the pieces from the D-Jetronic that was removed: fuel pump, pressure regulator, rails, injectors, throttle body, MP sensor, control module. However, its not clear where they are supposed to be mounted. Can anyone point me to a picture that shows the original locations of these components on a 73. (Its pretty clear where the injectors, rails, and throttle body go, but the other components could be bolted almost anywhere).

Unit testing. While I'm hopeful that everything works, being realistic one or more of these 33 year old components is probably out of spec. For the fuel pump, regulator, and injectors the unit test is pretty simple, but what about the MP sensor, temp sensor, and control unit? Does anyone have an easy way to unit test them?

Thanks much for the help.

this site has everything needed to learn about the D-Jet related to 914's

D-Jet guru


you'll want to run 2 new lines in the original location, you can buy steel or stainless steel fuel line for only $25 at Summit Racing....you get hit on the side with fuel lines in the current location and you could turn into a BBQ real quick

There's a tech article on this site (see the 914 Info tab at the top) about running stainless lines down the tunnel. The only thing I'd comment on from that article is that you don't need to run them nearly as far as Clay did. My car has them stop just as they exit the tunnel at each end, and run longer rubber hoses. You can also flare the ends of the lines to retain hose-clamp'd lines rather than threading them or just roughing them up. All three work, but I prefer flaring.

You can get the braided rubber hose from various places. It will be in metric, not standard, but the 7 and 8mm sizes are pretty close to the usual inch sizes (3/8 and 5/16). If you don't use the braided stuff, be sure to use high-pressure FI hose. D-Jet pressure isn't all that high (25-30psi), but it's more than a carb sees (3-5psi), and blown hoses are not only a fire hazard, they're a messy pain in the ass to replace when they're full of fuel.

Thanks for the link to the D-jet Guru site. It has lots of info. I guess you're right about the location of the lines. Its a lot easier to route them down the side, but they are a far less protected. Why SS rather than copper?

I would be certain (110%) that the MPS you have is GOOD before you convert back to the D-Jet. Just because you have it doesn't mean it's good - far from it. I have 3 and none hold a decent vacuum and I am trying to figure out what to do to make it run properly. Right now (with a so-so 1.7) it runs too lean and too hot.

These things are a big issue when it comes to these 30-year-old systems.

Just my $0.02

Bill: Check my blog. Ho! And you might find some interseting stuff in the others blogs.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe

QUOTE (billd @ Jul 14 2005, 05:35 PM)

Thanks for the link to the D-jet Guru site. It has lots of info. I guess you're right about the location of the lines. Its a lot easier to route them down the side, but they are a far less protected. Why SS rather than copper?

ditto on the MPS recommendations....it could become costly and frustrating.

Luckly for you, you are surrounded by a bunch of aftermarket FI "nut'z" so we can help steer you in the wrong direction with ease

as for fuel lines...a few, (very few) people use copper lines, it can and does work, however there are better materials to use.....sometimes I base what to use by what you see sold for that particular application...I have not seen "copper" lines sold for fuel use by any automotive supply house, plenty of steel (copper coated ironicly), stainless steel and even aluminum.

Solid copper lines will not flex and can crack. s/s lines will flex with the car and not cause a leak. You can also use high pressure rubber with cloth cover German fuel line....

copper for fuel line...bad mojo! copper hardens and gets more brittle every time it flexes even a tiny bit

Joe Sharp's blog is very helpful to see where everything goes. A few more questions.

Any easy way to check out an MPS to see if its any good? What is the typical failure mode? Leaky diaphram?

In Joe's blog is the pressure regulator just hanging on the hoses or is it bolted down somehow?

buy a vaccuum pump, and put a 20PSI vac on the MPS....if it leaks down any its gettign bad....if it drops 1PSI per 10minutes...its bad.

should hold vac preetty well.

Bill: Sorry about some of the pics, I'm praticing to take pics like Andy. The picture of the fuel regulator looks like its floating. Try this one.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe

This is what the Djet set up should look like on a engine.

you pull a vacumn and about 3 to 5 inches of water is plenty to test with, it should hold it for at least 10 mins

my guess is that the previous owner removed the fuel injection and installed the carbs because the injection was malfunctioning.

The prime reason for going over to carbs is because people either can't figure out why, or don't want to spend the money to repair the fuel injection...

so I'm 99.999999% sure one of your F.I. components is bad.

the brad anders site listed above has all of the tests for every single component.

before you put your car up onto the proverbial jack stands, I would test all of the components and get all of necessary parts/pieces you will need.

you don't want to go through all of this only to find that it doesn't run at all when your done. Plus diagnosing problems is tough enough on a job like this when you don't even know if the problem might be a component or a wiring harness, or a relay board or whatever.

brant

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jul 14 2005, 08:58 PM)

and put a 20PSI vac on the MPS

20 lbs of vacuum? What planet are you on?

i said low vac on another thread and i got my ass kicked.


just ignore everything i say, seems to work out better.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jul 15 2005, 09:12 AM)

i said low vac on another thread and i got my ass kicked. just ignore everything i say, seems to work out better.

No butt kicking here - just wanted to clarify that on Earth, atmospheric pressure is nominally 14.69 psi (at sea level). Therefore, a perfect vacuum would equal -14.69 psi or ZERO absolute.

No such thing as 20 psi vacuum on this planet...thus the question about your planet of inhabitance.



P.S. I make it a habit of getting corrected around here, too. It's good for the soul to know that I don't know it all.

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 14 2005, 10:24 PM)

QUOTE (billd @ Jul 14 2005, 05:35 PM)   ...Why SS rather than copper? ...I have not seen "copper" lines sold for fuel use by any automotive supply house, plenty of steel (copper coated ironicly), stainless steel and even aluminum.

Papco (sp?)...One of the larger hardware suppliers does carry copper fuel line. Even says fuel line in the catalogue.

I use good old steel...cheap, easy to bend (SS can be a bitch to bend) and any FLAPS has it.

Copper has a bad rep, but it's more likely do to poor installation than breakage. If it goes through steel it should have a grommet and make sure to secure it proper. Any material "rubbing" against a sharp or moving part will fail.

Do you have any records for the car? In particular, was an engine rebuild done sometime around when they went to the carb setup? If so--you may have a camshaft that will not work with the stock EFI system. It's an engine rebuild to change it back to stock, so it's usually not worth it just to go back to stock EFI.

--DD

QUOTE (Jakester @ Jul 15 2005, 08:30 AM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jul 15 2005, 09:12 AM) i said low vac on another thread and i got my ass kicked. just ignore everything i say, seems to work out better. No butt kicking here - just wanted to clarify that on Earth, atmospheric pressure is nominally 14.69 psi (at sea level). Therefore, a perfect vacuum would equal -14.69 psi or ZERO absolute. No such thing as 20 psi vacuum on this planet...thus the question about your planet of inhabitance. P.S. I make it a habit of getting corrected around here, too. It's good for the soul to know that I don't know it all.

Maybe he was thinking in terms of inches of water column????

QUOTE

Papco (sp?)...One of the larger hardware suppliers does carry copper fuel line. Even says fuel line in the catalogue.

For tractors and stationary engines for generators/pumps I bet

This one of those items that just about anything could be used with success or disaster depending on the person doing the install.......

QUOTE (Manfred Z @ Jul 15 2005, 09:43 AM)

Maybe he was thinking in terms of inches of water column????

Could be, but 20 in H2O is only 0.72 psi - not much vacuum.

Bill: The reason I can take the pictures of the injection stuff is because, after almost 2 years of chasing failures in the injection system, the onwer of this one drove my carbed car on a run and desided to stop throghing money at a dying system. About $600 to covert to duel single Solex 40's. Thats less than her last bill at her machanics, and the car stills was trying to commite automotive suiside. I'm giong to use a 009 dist with an Igniter, and a Brush exhuast. It won't be a hot rod but every time she puts the key in the car it going to start.
Jeff Bowlsby is not far from you and he is a Garu. Seek him out and score a loom, look at his cars for correct info on the assembly.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jul 15 2005, 12:45 PM)

QUOTE Papco (sp?)...One of the larger hardware suppliers does carry copper fuel line. Even says fuel line in the catalogue. For tractors and stationary engines for generators/pumps I bet This one of those items that just about anything could be used with success or disaster depending on the person doing the install.......

Are you calling me a country bumpkin ...Well I'm bit of a redneck I guess

How did you know I use a farm supply guy Delivers my hardware right to my door.

I live 3000 feet under-ground. My next door neighbor is the earth's core

Thanks for the replies. Much helpful information.

Dave, the engine was rebuilt at the same time it was converted to carburator. However, according to the paperwork it was rebuilt with the original camshaft, so hopefully that won't be a problem.

Joe, How can I find Jeff Bowlsby?

yell real loud.....

he frequents this board quite often....pm him...

Check the resources page here. He makes harneres for all of your needs.
:PPERMAGRIN: Joe

My MPS leaks like a sieve. I pump it down to 20in Hg and it leaks to 15 within a minute. Any suggestions on where to get it rebuilt or to get a replacement at a decent price? Perhaps I should consider converting to dual carbs.

how much does it leak in 5 minutes?

Its down to about 8 in Hg in 5 minutes and then holds fairly steady, 7.5in Hg in 10 minutes.

go megasquirt man.....

So what's involved in a 914 2.0L megasquirt setup? Can someone point me to a guide.

uhoh. i'm going to get yelled at now.


whenever i talk, people get mad.

do a search for megasquirt, you'll find like oodles of information

people have done the work on fuel maps and such

i think general people know about these things well enough to work on them (dyno wise)

buy a cheap laptop if you get serious into it.

I have a couple of laptops.

Is megasquirt the only aftermarket EFI option or are there others?

for me personally, megasquirt is the only way


for everybody else, it's the cheapest

there's one called the Kit Carlson (or used to be anyway, he stopped doing them last i heard) costs over 1k

MS is like $500 or so with the box and maybe a harness queaking through.

Megasquirt isn't the "only" way. See my blog for a short rundown on the various aftermarket systems in use on the 914. Search for DNHunt (Dave Hunt), who has had MS running on a 2.0 914, and will have it running again on his 2270 once he's finished assembling it.

Thats not too bad so I would assume that something else is your problem. A blown diaphram in the MPS results in 0hg in like 2 secs.

I haven't followed all the problems on this engine. Please review them, ie: whats it doing??

The only problem with the engine is that it currently has a single progressive 2 barrel carb and I'd like to convert it back to EFI. I'm checking out the components before doing the conversion.

if you need core parts, I will trade you my 2.0 setup for your progressive

yeah, you can never have too many of those pieces of shit...

QUOTE (Jakester @ Jul 15 2005, 09:32 AM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jul 14 2005, 08:58 PM) and put a 20PSI vac on the MPS 20 lbs of vacuum? What planet are you on?

i'm from like Neptune i think.

I breathe liquid ammonia. It's getting real expensive these days. or years or pico-years.

QUOTE

if you need core parts, I will trade you my 2.0 setup for your progressive

What parts do you have and what condition are they in? I currently have all the parts, but the MPS is leaky.

I am looking for a set of 2.0l intake runners. Wanna sell those.

pm me with your offer.

injectors too or just the runners?