Video on the Porsche Spyder Vision, a modern day 914.

https://youtu.be/fCDGDVcwFIo

That was really neat to see a side by side of the 551 and 914. 551 certainly seems a mix of a 550 and 914. Will Porsche ever make a 914 again? Probably about the same time they are willing to make another version of a 924.

They already have; they call it the "Boxster."

914-6 had the same basic engine as the 911, but at lower performance. So does the Boxster.
914-6 was mid-engine versus the 911's ass-engine. So is the Boxster.
As a result, the 914-6 was a better-performing chassis, given similar setup. So is the Boxster.
Porsche made a 4-cylinder version of the 914 that costs less. So did the Boxster.

So everybody wonders what would have happened if Porsche had continued the 914? We already know.

All that's missing is the targa bar.

Totally agree with Greg.

Remaking the 944 especially with all of the 4 Cylinder turbos about these days would be interesting.

Now you have the 718. 4 cyl Turbo in either a 2.0 L or 2.5 L

Still looked down upon by the 911 crowd, Just like the 914.

If 914 were to be re-made today . . . in my book it would be

Must meet modern safety mandates and things like pedestrian impact regulations which gurantee that it will end up an overweight pig unless made out of exotic materials which I wouldn't be able to afford.

Can't really do air cooled anymore because of emissions. Worse yet you can pretty much gurantee anything post 2025 is going to be leaning toward EV.

Checked the weight of a Boxter lately? Yeah pushing 2800-3000 lbs. 3000 lbs is about a 50% increase in weight over a 914. EV will only add to that. No thanks - vintage teener is the way to go for me.

Not trying to beat down the Boxter or Cayman guys, they are just not my thing at this stage of my life.

The difference being that Porsche seems to have gone out of their way NOT to acknowledge the obvious 914 heritage with the Boxster. With the 914 finally getting its due, I wouldn't be surprised to see a future version of Boxster/914 finally give an official nod to our little bastards. I think there could be a nostalgia-based marketing advantage there. OTOH, the fact they have once again ignored us in this Little Rebel concept suggests maybe they won't.

I think you have a typo there. Here, I fixed it:

I keep telling you guys the EV's are to die for w.r.t acceleration. They still crush my soul. Gotta have that beautiful cacophony of air cooled whines and clatter. I'll listen to that anyday over the obnoxious windnoise and roadnoise that EV's are left with once you remove the ICE powertrain.

Totally agree that Porsche has had it's chance to acknowlege the 914 but they keep botching it. Little Bastards is what teeners are to Porsche but it would be a great nickname and I like the tie to the James Dean Little Bastard!

Saw the "negative space" of the 914 bumpers as well as the ties to the 914's front lights—and front fender shapes but reinterpreted at the rear of the 551—immediately. Targa bar, too…which without a windshield is very Ginther.

After driving a 918 for a week, and listening to a bunch of people in my business pine to try one without the hybrid gear, I was curious to try it without the ICE. After trying the Taycan for a couple of days, I am not going to throw the idea of a 914 for the 21st Century out—even if that means it's an EV. How often do I go more than 20-80 miles in my 914? Answer: not often (real answer: not often enough). Which makes me wonder how light something like this could be. 914 light? No way. Boxster light, or anywhere near it? Hmm....

Porsche should re-engineer the air-cooled engine, like Singer did with Williams Racing.



http://singervehicledesign.com/singer-vehi...hting-services/

Light weight EV is an oxymorn. The 918 weighed in for Fat Camp at about 3600 lbs!

I fully acknowlege my definition of the proper weight for a sports car is artificially constrained but I can't stretch to 3600 lbs. When I was young we used to make fun of cars that weighed nearly two tons. Lead Sleds. Grocery Getter's. Land Yachts.

Fully get it times change but we now scratch our heads wondering why cars need 400 HP or more?

It is just silly to be adding all this weight to cars and then still demanding lower and lower emissions.

OK I'll get off the soapbox.

And I thought you were going to correct "gurantee".

I thought he was going to take out “leaning toward”!!!

[quote name='76-914' date='Dec 1 2020, 08:09 PM' post='2871161']
[/quote]
And I thought you were going to correct "gurantee".
[/quote]

I think you have a typo there....

You should see how bad my spelling is before my OCD causes me to go back and try to correct it before someone picks up the reply!

The more wound up I get, the worse the spelling and punctuation is.

Don't even get me started if I've been drinking and posting

"I do my best editing after hitting 'send'"...

Judging cars by their curb weight is a lot like judging them by their 0-60 or any other spec-sheet number.

I've driven 2000-2500lb cars that are awful/and not fun, and 3500-5500lb cars that are really good and a lot of fun. Given the choice, I'll always take something with a 2 (or a 1...) on the front of its curb weight—but the way a car drives and makes a driver feel is way more interesting to me.

So it's a bit humorous to see the 918 tarred for its weight given what a lot of cars people love weigh or even consider "light," from 997 and 991 Turbos to GT3s. They aluminum-plated carbon dash trim to save weight on that thing, and the fact it's a 887-hp convertible with three distinct powertrains (2 motors, one IC V8, and PDK) and AWD that weighs less than a 911 Turbo Cabriolet is pretty impressive in my view. So was its performance at the 'Ring, and it drives light and ultra responsive, with its bulk only really obvious under hard braking.

Similarly, a 991 C2 is a seriously light vehicle for what it is—being lighter than a 964 C2 despite having another 120 hp and an even bigger margin on torque. I would argue the 991 "drives" lighter, too, even if it looks and drives larger. I really miss small sports cars, and the last new vehicle I had that weighed anywhere near what my 914 does was a 2013 500 Abarth, which I absolutely loved and still miss.

I will say there has been some really good engineering to make the pigs we drive now drive the way they do.

BTW, my Boxster has much better manners than my 914, just so much improvement, and other cars are better than the Boxster. I love 914s, but I do not find them bringing the huge smile to my face as the Boxster does.

Maybe I am getting soft in my old age, maybe my BMWs have set the bar to high.

But I love driving all of them, and I have never asked hey should I drive the 914 or the Boxster. The 914 is still on he lift. The Boxster took a weekend to restore refresh, and I just get in it and

As of today that is a win in my book.

Totally agree re: the Boxster, but keep going on your 914!

Back when we had a Boxster—an early 2.5, and oddly before that a 2.7—I would sometimes go break my 914 out of storage for a drive. It didn't take long before I was wondering why I didn't drive the 914 a lot more often—the sounds, the smells, the simplicity, the fun. So much of what makes 356s and 911s special and fun, but with near-modern handling from a far more modern platform.

When I got back into the 986 to go home, it was "ahhhhhhhh—this car does everything better and is super fun too!" All the steering feel without the "white noise," beautiful damping and dynamics, fantastic brakes, better sounding engine (my 914 had a four back then), real HVAC, power top, heated seats, power windows, etc. etc.

Exactly. That is what has been stolen from modern cars.

Fully agree that cars can't be judged on weight alone (but it is a favorite metric of mine ) and there are many piggy cars that handle much better than the weight would suggest. That is true.

But, in the course of my career as an automotive engineer, the last 25 years only reinforces my personal opinion that the trade offs involved in offsetting the adverse effects of weight don't outweigh the benefits of light weight and simplicity.

Weight begets more weight.


Tires get bigger to support the mass and tire pressures go ever higher degrading ride

Suspension components become bigger to maintain the same durability

Springs get upsized to control larger unspring mass of the suspension and to support the heavier sprung body mass.

Dampers get bigger to control the larger mass and larger springs

Vehicle structures continue to get heavier despite use of high strength steel and hot stamping of parts to maximize form and minimize weight.

Higher HP engine needed to accelerate the mass

Bigger brakes needed to stop the mass which also weigh more themselves.

It is not atypical during a development cycle to find that 1 or more of the items above has gone tilt and exceeded a maximum load and the upsizing goes yet another round on cross functionally affected components.

All the above costs more money, uses more raw materials, leads to more net energy use, higher net emissions all along the supply chain than would have been necesssary had it just been kept light and simple in the 1st place.

We now literally have 5000 - 6000 lb vehicles used as daily drivers to haul around 1 or two people! Sometimes it is the very same people that then proceed to lecture me about how I ought to be saving the world by cuttting my carbon footprint.

Yup . . . I like simplicity and light weight.

Greg hit it on the nose on Post 3 - The Boxter is the modern day 914, and Porsche has been making them for over a decade now.

About 7 or 8 years ago I made a similar statement (either here or at Rennlist) and folks got into an uproar. "You are so wrong, the Boxster is nothing like a 914".

And yet... :-)

Zach