I'll start by saying Oscar has already graciously offered to let me come look at and photograph his cars so I can understand better what Im about to do.
I have a 73 that is motorless, and was going to do a 2056. Crazily, I have everything needed to do the engine build but the siren sound of the six just kept calling. Ill build the type 4, but it will sit for another car, another day.
I purchased a 2.2 911 engine from a 72, with triple Webers, and the original Italian distributor. The motor was re-sealed but I need to do the Carrera tensioner upgrade before it sees a car. The history of the internals is not completely known, but the seller seemed pretty knowledgable. Stated the motor had heads from a 2.4 and "911 E" cams. I do see fuel injection ports that are plugged, so that does indicate a later model year for the heads. The mechanical fuel injection drive off the cams is visible as well. My goal is to get it attached and started on a test stand and make sure everything is relatively tuned and not leaking.
Has headers, and a Dansk muffler. I just bought an oil tank and tins from one of our member vendors who was just offering a special on both. I intend to switch to a 1,2,3 distributor and ignition to replace the dated CDI box. It came with a Patrick Motorsports mount.
My first question here relates to fuel pump. What is an ideal pump to run? Do you still run a return line with the triples? Have To or can you do it without it? I assume, like dual 4 cylinder carbs, 3-5 PSI is all you need?
I have read several conversion threads (have more to read) so I am learning more and more. It will be some time before this project really gets underway (I'm finishing a Cobra Jet Mustang) and my intent is to do a build thread. The fuel pump question is so I buy one that works on the stand and in the car....
I will need to fabricate the oil lines from the tank to the car. Any information on this would be welcomed. I'd like to do it once, and use the same setup on the stand as I will the car. I intend to use AN fittings for ease, but lengths of hoses, diameter, brand, etc... I'm clueless here.
I saw a thread on making the 4 cyl relay board work, but I'm not a big electrical guy, so I will need some guidance there eventually. On the bench, Ill use a starter box and plug it into a voltage regulator...(I think)
Thoughts? And thank you all for your knowledge. It is humbling to read some of the posts that are in this world...
Full Version: Taking the 6 plunge
For someone that has 914 A Roo in his avitar, . . . . glad to see you putting a proper engine in the car. 
My simplest advice is to work with Oscar, Ben, Mark Henry, etc. and others that have gone down the conversion route before. Since I'm largely only getting started and will still have my 2.4L six build in progress for a while (still buying needed parts) I'll watch on the sidelines too.
With respect to the fuel return question, carbs will work deadheaded but a return line will help keep fuel cooler and minimize vapor locking, fuel percolation, etc.
With a carb setup, electrical is greatly simplified and the folks on the forum can certainly help get you there.
My simplest advice is to work with Oscar, Ben, Mark Henry, etc. and others that have gone down the conversion route before. Since I'm largely only getting started and will still have my 2.4L six build in progress for a while (still buying needed parts) I'll watch on the sidelines too.
With respect to the fuel return question, carbs will work deadheaded but a return line will help keep fuel cooler and minimize vapor locking, fuel percolation, etc.
With a carb setup, electrical is greatly simplified and the folks on the forum can certainly help get you there.
Some of your choices definitely would vary if you're going down the stock-ish street car, hotrod-outlaw or full track/racecar route -
My car was built for >90% track and I'm running a pretty simple carbed setup with a Holley Red pump (under $125 and so far have not found a better one for my application) with no return line. Two fuel filters and all metal & AN-6 lines. I may add a return someday but honestly I have never had any issues without it, bearing in mind that track driving is not the same as idling on the 405.
For ignition I have the MSD box & coil -- you may be fine with the stock Bosch CD though as long as it's working right. As you may know those boxes fail sometimes but are still a viable option and period-correct.
Would be glad to show you my car or answer any questions that may help!
My car was built for >90% track and I'm running a pretty simple carbed setup with a Holley Red pump (under $125 and so far have not found a better one for my application) with no return line. Two fuel filters and all metal & AN-6 lines. I may add a return someday but honestly I have never had any issues without it, bearing in mind that track driving is not the same as idling on the 405.
For ignition I have the MSD box & coil -- you may be fine with the stock Bosch CD though as long as it's working right. As you may know those boxes fail sometimes but are still a viable option and period-correct.
Would be glad to show you my car or answer any questions that may help!
What a great decision and project. Collecting all of the parts is half the fun. Don't forget all of the little bits to make it all work. Throttle linkage, bell crank come to mind. Will you cut an access hatch into the firewall? Gauges and correctly senders of course.
Is your transaxle in good shape? CV's, axles, 5-lug set-up? Temperatures where you will be driving in the summer get warm. Is the oil cooler going to be located up front with a thermostat? We have members who make great conversion parts- you already found Ben for a lot of stuff. I like the hard lines running down the long and that was how we did my car. I did not cut into the nose of my car, we just pulled 5 of the large black rubber plugs for inlet air. I did not do the GT front bumper cutout either. But we did do a GT style front valance cut out to allow air into the cooler. The we vented the trunk floor. If I were to do it again, I would strongly consider the venting using a fiberglass air handler that routes air from the cooler out to both fender wells and allows you to maintain a flat trunk floor. Eric Shea did one that I just loved.
Firing the engine on a stand is a great way to go. That way you can get it all dialed in and ID any leaks and repair them much more easily than if the engine was in the car. Then install, turn the key and you are all good.
Consider rebuilding the pedal assembly while you are doing the rest of the install.
With the weight of the 6 engine, I went with 140 pound rear springs and Bilstein shocks and my car rides very nice. I do not track my car- it is strictly street driven.
Personally, even living in CA where the weather is mostly good, I still wanted heat and love my Ben's heat exchangers. In the fall or even now, when I drive my car I like to have the heat on, seat heaters on, and then I am nice and comfortable. Also, if it is raining, (God forbid it rains when I drive my car) I have the defroster working well too. Only got caught in the rain once so far.
Have fun and enjoy.
Michael
Is your transaxle in good shape? CV's, axles, 5-lug set-up? Temperatures where you will be driving in the summer get warm. Is the oil cooler going to be located up front with a thermostat? We have members who make great conversion parts- you already found Ben for a lot of stuff. I like the hard lines running down the long and that was how we did my car. I did not cut into the nose of my car, we just pulled 5 of the large black rubber plugs for inlet air. I did not do the GT front bumper cutout either. But we did do a GT style front valance cut out to allow air into the cooler. The we vented the trunk floor. If I were to do it again, I would strongly consider the venting using a fiberglass air handler that routes air from the cooler out to both fender wells and allows you to maintain a flat trunk floor. Eric Shea did one that I just loved.
Firing the engine on a stand is a great way to go. That way you can get it all dialed in and ID any leaks and repair them much more easily than if the engine was in the car. Then install, turn the key and you are all good.
Consider rebuilding the pedal assembly while you are doing the rest of the install.
With the weight of the 6 engine, I went with 140 pound rear springs and Bilstein shocks and my car rides very nice. I do not track my car- it is strictly street driven.
Personally, even living in CA where the weather is mostly good, I still wanted heat and love my Ben's heat exchangers. In the fall or even now, when I drive my car I like to have the heat on, seat heaters on, and then I am nice and comfortable. Also, if it is raining, (God forbid it rains when I drive my car) I have the defroster working well too. Only got caught in the rain once so far.
Have fun and enjoy.
Michael
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 3 2021, 07:25 AM) 
What a great decision and project. Collecting all of the parts is half the fun. Don't forget all of the little bits to make it all work. Throttle linkage, bell crank come to mind. Will you cut an access hatch into the firewall? Gauges and correctly senders of course.
Is your transaxle in good shape? CV's, axles, 5-lug set-up? Temperatures where you will be driving in the summer get warm. Is the oil cooler going to be located up front with a thermostat? We have members who make great conversion parts- you already found Ben for a lot of stuff. I like the hard lines running down the long and that was how we did my car. I did not cut into the nose of my car, we just pulled 5 of the large black rubber plugs for inlet air. I did not do the GT front bumper cutout either. But we did do a GT style front valance cut out to allow air into the cooler. The we vented the trunk floor. If I were to do it again, I would strongly consider the venting using a fiberglass air handler that routes air from the cooler out to both fender wells and allows you to maintain a flat trunk floor. Eric Shea did one that I just loved.
Firing the engine on a stand is a great way to go. That way you can get it all dialed in and ID any leaks and repair them much more easily than if the engine was in the car. Then install, turn the key and you are all good.
Consider rebuilding the pedal assembly while you are doing the rest of the install.
With the weight of the 6 engine, I went with 140 pound rear springs and Bilstein shocks and my car rides very nice. I do not track my car- it is strictly street driven.
Personally, even living in CA where the weather is mostly good, I still wanted heat and love my Ben's heat exchangers. In the fall or even now, when I drive my car I like to have the heat on, seat heaters on, and then I am nice and comfortable. Also, if it is raining, (God forbid it rains when I drive my car) I have the defroster working well too. Only got caught in the rain once so far.
Have fun and enjoy.
Michael
Yes, the bell crank throttle linkage.. I forgot to mention that one.... source??? I would rather it go through a hole in the tin than the firewall...and thank you for the other nuggets in your answer... Gauges.. yes more research to do.
QUOTE(Robarabian @ Feb 3 2021, 10:38 AM)
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 3 2021, 07:25 AM)
What a great decision and project. Collecting all of the parts is half the fun. Don't forget all of the little bits to make it all work. Throttle linkage, bell crank come to mind. Will you cut an access hatch into the firewall? Gauges and correctly senders of course.
Is your transaxle in good shape? CV's, axles, 5-lug set-up? Temperatures where you will be driving in the summer get warm. Is the oil cooler going to be located up front with a thermostat? We have members who make great conversion parts- you already found Ben for a lot of stuff. I like the hard lines running down the long and that was how we did my car. I did not cut into the nose of my car, we just pulled 5 of the large black rubber plugs for inlet air. I did not do the GT front bumper cutout either. But we did do a GT style front valance cut out to allow air into the cooler. The we vented the trunk floor. If I were to do it again, I would strongly consider the venting using a fiberglass air handler that routes air from the cooler out to both fender wells and allows you to maintain a flat trunk floor. Eric Shea did one that I just loved.
Firing the engine on a stand is a great way to go. That way you can get it all dialed in and ID any leaks and repair them much more easily than if the engine was in the car. Then install, turn the key and you are all good.
Consider rebuilding the pedal assembly while you are doing the rest of the install.
With the weight of the 6 engine, I went with 140 pound rear springs and Bilstein shocks and my car rides very nice. I do not track my car- it is strictly street driven.
Personally, even living in CA where the weather is mostly good, I still wanted heat and love my Ben's heat exchangers. In the fall or even now, when I drive my car I like to have the heat on, seat heaters on, and then I am nice and comfortable. Also, if it is raining, (God forbid it rains when I drive my car) I have the defroster working well too. Only got caught in the rain once so far.
Have fun and enjoy.
Michael
Yes, the bell crank throttle linkage.. I forgot to mention that one.... source??? I would rather it go through a hole in the tin than the firewall...and thank you for the other nuggets in your answer... Gauges.. yes more research to do.
Rich/A914guy@aol.com makes the correct reproduction bell crank and linkage.
Sounds like you have most of the high $$ items in hand for the conversion.
RE: My first question here relates to fuel pump. What is an ideal pump to run? Do you still run a return line with the triples? Have To or can you do it without it? I assume, like dual 4 cylinder carbs, 3-5 PSI is all you need?
The are several threads and opinions on this topic, but I'll suggest my summary of options:
best set up: (pump + return regulator + return line) - as noted, this has the best chance of reducing vapor lock in hot weather, and has the most uniform pressure presented to the float chambers at all times
next best: (pump + non-return regulator) - I run this on my 2.2 conversion, with a 9psi Facet pump and a regulator close to the carbs set at 3.5psi. The non-return regulators work well when fuel is being demanded (ie engine is running), but have indeterminate pressure out when the float valves are closed (no demand). In practice though, I've never had any issues starting or running with the set up - in Bay Area CA weather at least.
basic: (low PSI pump and no regulator) - here you're trusting the pump and carb floats to sort things out between them; which over time and with wear is just asking for variable results.
Hope this helps. Again, a few of us have been down the -6 conversion path; be sure and post progress!
- Tony
PS. On filters: The excellent Dempsey 911 engine book suggests a filter between tank and pump, plus a filter for each carb after the regulator. Most add a mini fuel pressure gauge just before the carbs for reference setting the regulator.
RE: My first question here relates to fuel pump. What is an ideal pump to run? Do you still run a return line with the triples? Have To or can you do it without it? I assume, like dual 4 cylinder carbs, 3-5 PSI is all you need?
The are several threads and opinions on this topic, but I'll suggest my summary of options:
best set up: (pump + return regulator + return line) - as noted, this has the best chance of reducing vapor lock in hot weather, and has the most uniform pressure presented to the float chambers at all times
next best: (pump + non-return regulator) - I run this on my 2.2 conversion, with a 9psi Facet pump and a regulator close to the carbs set at 3.5psi. The non-return regulators work well when fuel is being demanded (ie engine is running), but have indeterminate pressure out when the float valves are closed (no demand). In practice though, I've never had any issues starting or running with the set up - in Bay Area CA weather at least.
basic: (low PSI pump and no regulator) - here you're trusting the pump and carb floats to sort things out between them; which over time and with wear is just asking for variable results.
Hope this helps. Again, a few of us have been down the -6 conversion path; be sure and post progress!
- Tony
PS. On filters: The excellent Dempsey 911 engine book suggests a filter between tank and pump, plus a filter for each carb after the regulator. Most add a mini fuel pressure gauge just before the carbs for reference setting the regulator.
Start a build thread, there's many members with threads like my build thread here.
It chronicles your build, proves you did certain work and IMHO can be used for insurance appraisal and value if you go to sell. If you look at my thread it proves the work done to my engine and 914.
It chronicles your build, proves you did certain work and IMHO can be used for insurance appraisal and value if you go to sell. If you look at my thread it proves the work done to my engine and 914.
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Feb 3 2021, 09:21 AM)
Start a build thread, there's many members with threads like my build thread here.
It chronicles your build, proves you did certain work and IMHO can be used for insurance appraisal and value if you go to sell. If you look at my thread it proves the work done to my engine and 914.
YEs. Going to read yours this evening... Ill reach out with Q's!!
QUOTE(mepstein @ Feb 3 2021, 07:46 AM)
QUOTE(Robarabian @ Feb 3 2021, 10:38 AM)
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 3 2021, 07:25 AM)
What a great decision and project. Collecting all of the parts is half the fun. Don't forget all of the little bits to make it all work. Throttle linkage, bell crank come to mind. Will you cut an access hatch into the firewall? Gauges and correctly senders of course.
Is your transaxle in good shape? CV's, axles, 5-lug set-up? Temperatures where you will be driving in the summer get warm. Is the oil cooler going to be located up front with a thermostat? We have members who make great conversion parts- you already found Ben for a lot of stuff. I like the hard lines running down the long and that was how we did my car. I did not cut into the nose of my car, we just pulled 5 of the large black rubber plugs for inlet air. I did not do the GT front bumper cutout either. But we did do a GT style front valance cut out to allow air into the cooler. The we vented the trunk floor. If I were to do it again, I would strongly consider the venting using a fiberglass air handler that routes air from the cooler out to both fender wells and allows you to maintain a flat trunk floor. Eric Shea did one that I just loved.
Firing the engine on a stand is a great way to go. That way you can get it all dialed in and ID any leaks and repair them much more easily than if the engine was in the car. Then install, turn the key and you are all good.
Consider rebuilding the pedal assembly while you are doing the rest of the install.
With the weight of the 6 engine, I went with 140 pound rear springs and Bilstein shocks and my car rides very nice. I do not track my car- it is strictly street driven.
Personally, even living in CA where the weather is mostly good, I still wanted heat and love my Ben's heat exchangers. In the fall or even now, when I drive my car I like to have the heat on, seat heaters on, and then I am nice and comfortable. Also, if it is raining, (God forbid it rains when I drive my car) I have the defroster working well too. Only got caught in the rain once so far.
Have fun and enjoy.
Michael
Yes, the bell crank throttle linkage.. I forgot to mention that one.... source??? I would rather it go through a hole in the tin than the firewall...and thank you for the other nuggets in your answer... Gauges.. yes more research to do.
Rich/A914guy@aol.com makes the correct reproduction bell crank and linkage.
Awesome! Thank you.
QUOTE(Retroracer @ Feb 3 2021, 09:20 AM)
Sounds like you have most of the high $$ items in hand for the conversion.
RE: My first question here relates to fuel pump. What is an ideal pump to run? Do you still run a return line with the triples? Have To or can you do it without it? I assume, like dual 4 cylinder carbs, 3-5 PSI is all you need?
The are several threads and opinions on this topic, but I'll suggest my summary of options:
best set up: (pump + return regulator + return line) - as noted, this has the best chance of reducing vapor lock in hot weather, and has the most uniform pressure presented to the float chambers at all times
next best: (pump + non-return regulator) - I run this on my 2.2 conversion, with a 9psi Facet pump and a regulator close to the carbs set at 3.5psi. The non-return regulators work well when fuel is being demanded (ie engine is running), but have indeterminate pressure out when the float valves are closed (no demand). In practice though, I've never had any issues starting or running with the set up - in Bay Area CA weather at least.
basic: (low PSI pump and no regulator) - here you're trusting the pump and carb floats to sort things out between them; which over time and with wear is just asking for variable results.
Hope this helps. Again, a few of us have been down the -6 conversion path; be sure and post progress!
- Tony
PS. On filters: The excellent Dempsey 911 engine book suggests a filter between tank and pump, plus a filter for each carb after the regulator. Most add a mini fuel pressure gauge just before the carbs for reference setting the regulator.
Great info. I had purchased the stainless single line for carbs, so I will start out with the regulator and non return setup as you listed. Thank you!
What headers do you have 911 ones or 914-6 ones. The PMS engine mount may or may not get in the way of the heat exchangers should you every go that way and possibly the shift linkage which would then require very custom setup. PMS does also sell a full length throttle cable so no need for the bell crank. I have not used it but others have and said it works well plus it saves about $3-400 for the bellcrank.
AN fittings and line can be bought from anywhere.. I bought a bunch from I think it was AN flux out of florida? At wholesale pricing and then some from pegasus racing..
Let me know if I can help any further.
AN fittings and line can be bought from anywhere.. I bought a bunch from I think it was AN flux out of florida? At wholesale pricing and then some from pegasus racing..
Let me know if I can help any further.
also which PMS mount did you get?
I believe the "quick 6" mount used to be from patricks
it was notorious for cracking and is generally recommended against use
the 2nd and newer style of PMS mount is similar to the Naro style in that it pivots from 2 mounting points when installed. This can be helpful, in that you can pivot/tip the motor and trans unit inside the chassis. I've replaced a broken rocker shaft at the track in an hour with this 2nd style of PMS mount.
I believe the "quick 6" mount used to be from patricks
it was notorious for cracking and is generally recommended against use
the 2nd and newer style of PMS mount is similar to the Naro style in that it pivots from 2 mounting points when installed. This can be helpful, in that you can pivot/tip the motor and trans unit inside the chassis. I've replaced a broken rocker shaft at the track in an hour with this 2nd style of PMS mount.
QUOTE(brant @ Feb 3 2021, 01:44 PM)
also which PMS mount did you get?
I believe the "quick 6" mount used to be from patricks
it was notorious for cracking and is generally recommended against use
the 2nd and newer style of PMS mount is similar to the Naro style in that it pivots from 2 mounting points when installed. This can be helpful, in that you can pivot/tip the motor and trans unit inside the chassis. I've replaced a broken rocker shaft at the track in an hour with this 2nd style of PMS mount.
The one that came with the engine is the "Pivot" style. That being said, it is their bolt in version. When I checked their website I found the instructions and it can also be welded in, which is what I will end up doing with it.
QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 3 2021, 01:35 PM)
What headers do you have 911 ones or 914-6 ones. The PMS engine mount may or may not get in the way of the heat exchangers should you every go that way and possibly the shift linkage which would then require very custom setup. PMS does also sell a full length throttle cable so no need for the bell crank. I have not used it but others have and said it works well plus it saves about $3-400 for the bellcrank.
AN fittings and line can be bought from anywhere.. I bought a bunch from I think it was AN flux out of florida? At wholesale pricing and then some from pegasus racing..
Let me know if I can help any further.
The brand is unknown... Ill try to take a photo. The seller said the headers were for 914-6 specifically. Thank you for AN info...
QUOTE(Robarabian @ Feb 3 2021, 05:17 PM)
QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 3 2021, 01:35 PM)
What headers do you have 911 ones or 914-6 ones. The PMS engine mount may or may not get in the way of the heat exchangers should you every go that way and possibly the shift linkage which would then require very custom setup. PMS does also sell a full length throttle cable so no need for the bell crank. I have not used it but others have and said it works well plus it saves about $3-400 for the bellcrank.
AN fittings and line can be bought from anywhere.. I bought a bunch from I think it was AN flux out of florida? At wholesale pricing and then some from pegasus racing..
Let me know if I can help any further.
The brand is unknown... Ill try to take a photo. The seller said the headers were for 914-6 specifically. Thank you for AN info...
Subscribed. I too am doing the /6 conversion and have Ben's oil tank an RD engine tin. On the fence with Webers or CIS, our 914 will be a street rat/hot rod. I still have several rust issues working through.
QUOTE(Robarabian @ Feb 3 2021, 05:14 PM)
QUOTE(brant @ Feb 3 2021, 01:44 PM)
also which PMS mount did you get?
I believe the "quick 6" mount used to be from patricks
it was notorious for cracking and is generally recommended against use
the 2nd and newer style of PMS mount is similar to the Naro style in that it pivots from 2 mounting points when installed. This can be helpful, in that you can pivot/tip the motor and trans unit inside the chassis. I've replaced a broken rocker shaft at the track in an hour with this 2nd style of PMS mount.
The one that came with the engine is the "Pivot" style. That being said, it is their bolt in version. When I checked their website I found the instructions and it can also be welded in, which is what I will end up doing with it.
Keep in mind where these 2 point pivot mounts attach. Usually to the lower bulkhead and there is nothing there for structure. Nobody is home between the inner and outer lower bulkhead - just air. Sure you can put a doubler plate there to help spread the load but there is still nothing there. At the perimeter of the double plate you are still attached to 0.040" or so of sheetmetal - nothing more. Maybe at best, you touch a smidge of the reinfocement at the top but in the photo's I've seen, not enough for my comfort.
The OEM style mount ties into a structural reinforcement element that was placed there to account for /6 engine and it's loads.
QUOTE(brant @ Feb 3 2021, 01:44 PM)
also which PMS mount did you get?
I believe the "quick 6" mount used to be from patricks
it was notorious for cracking and is generally recommended against use
the 2nd and newer style of PMS mount is similar to the Naro style in that it pivots from 2 mounting points when installed. This can be helpful, in that you can pivot/tip the motor and trans unit inside the chassis. I've replaced a broken rocker shaft at the track in an hour with this 2nd style of PMS mount.
The quick six or cross bar motor mount was originally afaik from MSDS. It was just a bar that connected to the 4 motor mounts with a 911 mount welded to it. Back in 1986 Marty sold me the mount with headers and a muffler. He no longer sells mounts or mufflers. The quick six only worked with headers and the bar blocked heat exchangers. PMS came up with there own quick six which was a curved bar. The curved bar had issues. I remember rumors of low ground clearance, clunking, etc. I ran Marty’s quick six bar for over 20 years with no problems. I switched to Rich Johnson’s mount when I converted to stock six heat exchangers with my 2.7. I now have bens heat exchangers with my 3.2. The Rich Johnson mount is a copy of the Vellios mount. RIP.
You're in good hands with the specifics, but will say two things:
1) I've had a Rich Johnson mount in my conversion for 10~ years, and am very happy with it. The factory setup wasn't available back then, iirc. Both seem viable—I am less excited about mounts that put all that weight on two horizontal bolts.
2) 2.2 is a great engine for a narrow 914, or any 914 for that matter. I've got 911E Ps&Cs with a bit more compression, some head work, Solex cams, and headers, and a sport muffler. While it's very nice and tractable, feeling almost more 3.0 than 2.2, next time will be 2.2S. Love those top-end theatrics, as I learned after driving another 914 with a 2.2S MFI.
Have fun, and thanks for posting. I've picked up a couple of things I might revisit!
1) I've had a Rich Johnson mount in my conversion for 10~ years, and am very happy with it. The factory setup wasn't available back then, iirc. Both seem viable—I am less excited about mounts that put all that weight on two horizontal bolts.
2) 2.2 is a great engine for a narrow 914, or any 914 for that matter. I've got 911E Ps&Cs with a bit more compression, some head work, Solex cams, and headers, and a sport muffler. While it's very nice and tractable, feeling almost more 3.0 than 2.2, next time will be 2.2S. Love those top-end theatrics, as I learned after driving another 914 with a 2.2S MFI.
Have fun, and thanks for posting. I've picked up a couple of things I might revisit!
QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Feb 3 2021, 04:10 PM)
You're in good hands with the specifics, but will say two things:
1) I've had a Rich Johnson mount in my conversion for 10~ years, and am very happy with it. The factory setup wasn't available back then, iirc. Both seem viable—I am less excited about mounts that put all that weight on two horizontal bolts.
2) 2.2 is a great engine for a narrow 914, or any 914 for that matter. I've got 911E Ps&Cs with a bit more compression, some head work, Solex cams, and headers, and a sport muffler. While it's very nice and tractable, feeling almost more 3.0 than 2.2, next time will be 2.2S. Love those top-end theatrics, as I learned after driving another 914 with a 2.2S MFI.
Have fun, and thanks for posting. I've picked up a couple of things I might revisit!
Thank you!!!
QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Feb 3 2021, 03:18 PM)
QUOTE(Robarabian @ Feb 3 2021, 05:14 PM)
QUOTE(brant @ Feb 3 2021, 01:44 PM)
also which PMS mount did you get?
I believe the "quick 6" mount used to be from patricks
it was notorious for cracking and is generally recommended against use
the 2nd and newer style of PMS mount is similar to the Naro style in that it pivots from 2 mounting points when installed. This can be helpful, in that you can pivot/tip the motor and trans unit inside the chassis. I've replaced a broken rocker shaft at the track in an hour with this 2nd style of PMS mount.
The one that came with the engine is the "Pivot" style. That being said, it is their bolt in version. When I checked their website I found the instructions and it can also be welded in, which is what I will end up doing with it.
All of this is such great info.. I love this place!!!! Thank you. I will investigate the mount threads here.
Keep in mind where these 2 point pivot mounts attach. Usually to the lower bulkhead and there is nothing there for structure. Nobody is home between the inner and outer lower bulkhead - just air. Sure you can put a doubler plate there to help spread the load but there is still nothing there. At the perimeter of the double plate you are still attached to 0.040" or so of sheetmetal - nothing more. Maybe at best, you touch a smidge of the reinfocement at the top but in the photo's I've seen, not enough for my comfort.
The OEM style mount ties into a structural reinforcement element that was placed there to account for /6 engine and it's loads.
great news Rob; looking forward to following your build....
Well, I'm just finishing my build that sounds just like yours....74 with a 2.2 E with S pistons, Mod-Solex cams and PMOs. Short gears,150 rear springs from Ground Control, headers and muffler from Ben (mb911), relay board delete and engine harness from Perry Kiehl. MarkClick to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid=779
407]Click to view attachment
407]Click to view attachment
@mlinder - wow! That all looks fantastic.
So how does the Patrick MS accelerator cable work and eliminate the need for a bell crank set up?
So how does the Patrick MS accelerator cable work and eliminate the need for a bell crank set up?
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Feb 4 2021, 05:18 AM)
@mlinder - wow! That all looks fantastic.
So how does the Patrick MS accelerator cable work and eliminate the need for a bell crank set up?
My understanding is it is just a longer cable that you route to the belcrank on the engine or eliminate that bell crank as well.. I am not totally sure as I haven't used it but I know @sirandy has and maybe he would have some insight.
When I did my first six with a 2.7 and Weber’s back in 1986 I used a L bracket from beach boys racing and stock 914-4 throttle cable. I think that is what sir Andy s doing or something similar. Later I changed to the Rich Johnson bell crank. Since the bell crank setup has no bends in the cable, the throttle response or feel is much smoother. Otherwise I had no issues with the previous setup.
The factory put the bell crank linkage on because everything but the cable mount and the actual bellcrank were straight off the 911. And they only modified the bellcrank to correct the cable geometry.
You can run the cable up through the engine tin like they did on the 914-4 and build a bracket to attach the cable. I have this on the 4.0 engine, and it works great. The cable comes out of a hole by the distributor, and runs next to the fan back to the throttle body. No bellcranks or additional linkage involved.
Even the factory eliminated the bellcranks on the 911 with the introduction of the 964. On it there is a cable that runs straight to the throttle body.
Clay
You can run the cable up through the engine tin like they did on the 914-4 and build a bracket to attach the cable. I have this on the 4.0 engine, and it works great. The cable comes out of a hole by the distributor, and runs next to the fan back to the throttle body. No bellcranks or additional linkage involved.
Even the factory eliminated the bellcranks on the 911 with the introduction of the 964. On it there is a cable that runs straight to the throttle body.
Clay
Thanks @ClayPerrine and @steve .
Will likely go this route on mine, hope this helps inform options for @Robarabian
Here is the link;
https://patrickmotorsports.com/products/eng...76f21&_ss=r
Will likely go this route on mine, hope this helps inform options for @Robarabian
Here is the link;
https://patrickmotorsports.com/products/eng...76f21&_ss=r
On engine wiring - for an earlier carb car why would someone need the Patrick Motorsport or similar wiring kit? Isn't it just power to the coil just like a Type 4 engine?
(not knocking our suppliers because they make very nice offerings - just want to understand)
(not knocking our suppliers because they make very nice offerings - just want to understand)
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Feb 4 2021, 07:20 AM)
On engine wiring - for an earlier carb car why would someone need the Patrick Motorsport or similar wiring kit? Isn't it just power to the coil just like a Type 4 engine?
(not knocking our suppliers because they make very nice offerings - just want to understand)
Well you do need the engine harness for starter, oil pressure, oil temp, alternator, cdi , reverse lights, etc. I built 2 myself as perry was slammed busy at the time. Someday I may have him do one with all new wiring just because of a safety. Think about the 928 I bought was a perfect car until the wiring burst into flames.
For the OP's engine, be aware that if you are going to E cams you will not want to use the Marelli "T" distributor, the curve is wrong. Get a Bosch "E" or "S" distributor.
QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 4 2021, 10:23 AM)
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Feb 4 2021, 07:20 AM)
On engine wiring - for an earlier carb car why would someone need the Patrick Motorsport or similar wiring kit? Isn't it just power to the coil just like a Type 4 engine?
(not knocking our suppliers because they make very nice offerings - just want to understand)
Well you do need the engine harness for starter, oil pressure, oil temp, alternator, cdi , reverse lights, etc. I built 2 myself as perry was slammed busy at the time. Someday I may have him do one with all new wiring just because of a safety. Think about the 928 I bought was a perfect car until the wiring burst into flames.
Oh sure - if you want all that fancy stuff to work....
Oof - clearly I need more coffee.
Back in 1986 (before internet), I used a 914 and 911 haynes manual to build my own harness and dump the relay plate. The relay plate is used for voltage regulator, rear window defogger, fuel pump and fuel injection. Which I didn't need in my conversion. The 14 pin Male connector I used to mate to the 914 female is 911.612.113.05
I just moved the pins around to work correctly with the 911 harness.
Do a search, you will find plenty of wiring diagrams.
I just moved the pins around to work correctly with the 911 harness.
Do a search, you will find plenty of wiring diagrams.
QUOTE(mlindner @ Feb 4 2021, 04:46 AM)
Well, I'm just finishing my build that sounds just like yours....74 with a 2.2 E with S pistons, Mod-Solex cams and PMOs. Short gears,150 rear springs from Ground Control, headers and muffler from Ben (mb911), relay board delete and engine harness from Perry Kiehl. MarkClick to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid=779
407]Click to view attachment
Gorgeous engine, and very interesting chassis bracing—looks like it should add significant strength. Is it tied to bars on the other side of your firewall?
This car is going to be a hoot to drive with a hot 2.2 and short gears!
QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Feb 4 2021, 09:42 AM)
QUOTE(mlindner @ Feb 4 2021, 04:46 AM)
Well, I'm just finishing my build that sounds just like yours....74 with a 2.2 E with S pistons, Mod-Solex cams and PMOs. Short gears,150 rear springs from Ground Control, headers and muffler from Ben (mb911), relay board delete and engine harness from Perry Kiehl. MarkClick to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid=779
407]Click to view attachment
Gorgeous engine, and very interesting chassis bracing—looks like it should add significant strength. Is it tied to bars on the other side of your firewall?
This car is going to be a hoot to drive with a hot 2.2 and short gears!
Thanks, it been a fun build. Yes it is a full roll cage and bracing to the front strut area, I remove the side door braces, getting to old to get in. Thanks, Mark
QUOTE(Steve @ Feb 4 2021, 10:40 AM)
Back in 1986 (before internet), I used a 914 and 911 haynes manual to build my own harness and dump the relay plate. The relay plate is used for voltage regulator, rear window defogger, fuel pump and fuel injection. Which I didn't need in my conversion. The 14 pin Male connector I used to mate to the 914 female is 911.612.113.05
I just moved the pins around to work correctly with the 911 harness.
Do a search, you will find plenty of wiring diagrams.
Perry had those connectors, or he can make you a whole new custom engine harness.
I also deleted the relay board on my Weber /6 conversion, the engine harness plugs directly into the main harness.
QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 4 2021, 05:27 AM)
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Feb 4 2021, 05:18 AM)
@mlinder - wow! That all looks fantastic.
So how does the Patrick MS accelerator cable work and eliminate the need for a bell crank set up?
My understanding is it is just a longer cable that you route to the belcrank on the engine or eliminate that bell crank as well.. I am not totally sure as I haven't used it but I know @sirandy has and maybe he would have some insight.
The PMS cable loops around and goes straight to the throttle body, no linkage needed.
This is Perry Kiehl's engine harness, perfect fit and great instruction.Click to view attachment
Similarly to some above my car has a Vellios mount, Rich Johnson linkage and sheet metal, and it still has the relay board but only bare minimum relays and fuses hooked up
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