To be completely transparent I’m really asking as a thought experiment to make myself have one more reason to enjoy the process of building one myself, but we have some people here that run quality shops and others that have used quality shops that I’m curious to get their feedback from.

My guess would be around 15,000?

Do I get any points for asking in a run-on sentence?

If you do not have the motor that alone will cost you at least $15k for a nice rebuilt 6.

At this point I wish I would have priced that out (seeing how many years it's taking me) but I'd still faint for the price of paying someone to do everything.

Talking to Jeff Gamroth on Monday.
The asking price for a 3.6 VR core is now $20k.

My son has a 1970 chassis on the rack, no drivetrain. #766
His budget is $30k for the chassis. Dad doing the work for FREE. Like the Coatsworth project we're doing on IG, it will be a new "forever" car.
Examples :
Harness $3500
Chassis dipped $5000
Paint ???
Just a start ...................

Drive train budget : $50k
Rothsport mild 3.2, flipped 915.

A former OC member with a 914-6 conversion told me a well-known shop charged him $100,000
Recently purchased by a current member...

There are so many ways to do one and it depends if the shop has to assemble all the parts or everything is ready to bolt in. MB911/Ben did one not too long ago for a customer so he could probably speak to the time it takes. The shop where I used to work would say - time and materials.

The big problem is when a customer brings in their own parts and they don't all work together. Ben wrote about trouble with an engine mount that positioned the engine wrong in the chassis. That affected multiple other parts - engine tin, oil lines and exhaust. Very frustrating for everyone.

I have a feeling that a company like PMS can give you an accurate estimate because they have a system and use their own parts. But you will pay top dollar.

This isn't my old adage quote but maybe it's ture for some..." if you have to ask, you probably can't afford it".

Most of the owner conversions spend 30-50k
A shop would be about double that number

15x2. Maybe. Must be easy to spend that on some sort of core/parts/labor long block. 'While you're in there....'. It's always more. Always. Then the 5 lug, big brakes, suspension, clutch/FW package, tanks, trans, etc. Every other system or item that has to be refreshed or replaced.

Also curious to hear from others, and suspect answers may vary by region due to hourly shop rates, but the above seems "about right" to me.

Can maybe see the very craftiest/luckiest owner conversions at 20-40k, but the parts prices alone these days are

If you have to ask, it's going ruin there whole experience. I would guess if you supply the ready to bolt in engine/transaxle package, with all of the assorted hardware, (oil tank, lines, cooler & thermostat, gauges, harness, exhaust system, engine sheet metal, etc.) you are looking at $15-18K to put it all together.

Where do you draw the line? Brakes? Suspension? Wheels? Chassis reinforcement & rust repair while the engine/transaxle are out? It is indeed a slippery slope.

But, when all done, there is nothing like driving a Six. My wife thought I was absolutely nuts when I told her I wanted to do a Six from the ground up. She told me to just go buy a new 911 Turbo coupe. I told her that was not what I wanted to drive. Where we live we see turbo coupes all over the place. Not even worth looking at.

I love my Six and enjoy driving it or just seeing it in my garage.

I did one for a customer for 5k he supplied all the parts.. I am so busy right now that asked the same question I would charge 10k plus parts. That is for a simple swap not a restoration.

Simple swap to me= putting a 6 in place of a 4 and hooking everything up. Stock trans etc.

It reminds me of the questions about overhauling a 911 engine. I've heard it's based on 40 hours but every engine building expert I talked to agrees that would be only be reasonable if everything is cleaned, measured, on the counter and goes together without issues.

This isn't my old adage quote but maybe it's ture for some..." if you have to ask, you probably can't afford it".
[/quote]

True and true. If the disposable income pot is low, find a Miata. We are doing one including rust repairs, if I was charging $80./hour I estimate the total in the $60.k range. This includes a basic reconditioned 2.7 or 3.0

Carrera 3.0 six, steel flares, went through absolutely everything. $40k, free labor, original chassis at $5k.

Labor is going to be $100-150 hr. That's enough for me to do it myself as my job pays nowhere close to that....

I would imagine a 'repair' shop would be overall cheaper as they have fewer 'services' to sell you to rack up the bill. A resto shop will expect you to paint the bay and other things "while you are there" or sell you a $350 curb finder.

And then places like PMS will add their own 'premium' because they can.

Also, ask Eric as PMB has been doing more wrenching lately.

Thank you for the discussion and thoughts. I am not including the cost of the engine or transmission in that, sorry for not being adequately specific. Just everything else and labor.

I'll do it it for 100 dollars if you buy my car for 85000.00 to start with

So for the heck of it throw some retail numbers on things for lets say 2.7 and down

Oil tank $700-1000
Oil filler neck 100-250
Engine sheet metal/or fiberglass 3-1000
Oil lines/maybe AN 350-500 (no front oil cooler)
Throttle linkages 150-500
Engine oil cooler mod 150-250
Cup fly wheel 200-400
Headers 5-1500
Heat exchangers used to new 500-3700 (mine look like a deal at 2700
Muffler 5-1000
Engine harness 100-550(new)
Engine mount 250-500
Shift linkage mod 150-500
Oil filter console 100-180

This is assuming a 901 trans.

Be a little more specific.
Are you supplying the parts or does the shop do this?
Do you want a front oil cooler.
Upgrades to the suspension and brakes?
Factory like parts or after market?

There are many, many variables that go into this.

Like as in "blank check" for a shop to do the conversion?

If that is yes (blank check) for a GOOD shop to do this, it will not be cheap.

I just completed a 914-6 conversion a couple of years ago.
My engine (2.7 MFI) was $25k from the shop plus the $10-15k of my parts and restoration on top of that.
The gearbox (LSD, short gears, rebuild) was $14k.
The actual installation by the shop was about $10k.

But then I sourced the oil tank, engine mount, engine wiring harness, etc myself.

I'd say a ball park number is anywhere from $25k-65k depending on engine size, if rebuilt or used, etc, etc.

Installation only $10k...that’s a bargain

You're close to $15k for just all the supplemental -6 swap parts if buying new.

With the exception of welding the front mount the install is basic mechanical stuff and some reading.

I concur with Chris.
We're finishing up a 914-6 restoration. Lots of custom one off stuff.
Everything restored ................
Project was started by Rod Millen Motorsports 20 years ago.
400 hours
$14k in parts
Car will be delivered to Rothsport for drive train installation, alignment and corner balancing.

the reality of these numbers make me realize i will never be able to afford one today, and the one that was done pretty well a few years ago that i could have bought for $25k now looks like the that deal i will regret not taking advantage of . i will just have to enjoy what i have, all 90hp of it lol.

I have most of you beat, I did my 3.0 conversion for under $15k, but I wheeled and dealed, bought parts before prices went nuts, but that doesn't cover a second of my labour and my project took close to 8 years to do. That said I still have some work to do, they're never really done. My motor is $35-40K, I'd say I'd charge about $75-80k for the conversion.

But it's not just doing a /6, even restoring a /4 will cost you a lot. You can do it for $5K, but that's just the basic longblock. Add R&R and sorting, new HAM heads, full balance, new clutch, mounts, powdercoating, associated rubber, seals, etc., etc. And it's pretty easy for a shop to rack up a bill of over $20k+.
I'm talking about this to the owner of the rag motor today.

Same thoughts. Mine was done for about 12k but I built most of the stuff including the engine,tank headers.. my biggest costs were the carb restoration and the engine machine work.

Time = Money
A shop has to be able to take the parts off the shelf and install them in the car. I was the parts hunter for a big shop. It takes time. Then, when you are missing the next part to install, the car has to come off the lift and set aside while you wait for the part to arrive. Anytime the techs stop working, you're loosing money.

I started with a very clean car, performed all the installation labor and got a hell of a deal on the engine/trans 10 years ago. I'm into it for 16-18k including full suspension overhaul, 5 lug wheels, /6 brakes and the accompanying accessories to make it work and look good.

The thing that makes this tough are the wildly disparate roads to six conversions as well as the "fuzzy math" of all of the other upgrades up to and/or after the conversion.

Well, this and something a writer named Gerry Burger mentioned in a story on his 944, after bellying up to the parts bar at his local dealer to buy 951 side skirts and learning the price mentioned was for each side. "Suddenly, I heard a voice that sounded like my own say, 'I need both.'" When the parts arrived, he said he quickly stuffed the receipt into a big manilla envelope that said "944 Receipts - Warning: Do Not Tally."

I'm also glad others are bringing up another side of 6 conversions that seem to be lost in the calculations: Cost of building—and installing—a hot 4 that has a reasonable chance of longevity. And maintenance. The delta is the cost of a 6 conversion.

Also, a great building block for "car enthusiast logic."

You also can’t go by old prices. The engine in my 3.2 conversion was purchased in 2011 for $4,500. It had been recently overhauled and was in good running condition. Those prices are long gone.

Many times the mindset for a six conversion seems to be focused on how cheap can it be done. I’d like to change that thinking to how well can it be done. If we love the end result, we will want to keep the car for years and the initial cost will be worth it.

A 6 or a tear off and new roof. With $ left over.

I was one lucky and persistent bastard that was able to buy a totaled original 6 with a running carbed 3.0 for $4000! I kept all the key parts for a conversion and then sold what I didn't need for $4000...This was back in 2004. The frame was mangled.

Right now I'm debating if it's worth doing a /6 conversion on spec
-I have a '73 914, good candidate but needs full body resto
-all the RD parts, except flares.
-core 2.7 /6 engine, STD/STD crank
-rebuilt /4 901/914 tranny
-85% of the 5-bolt kit plus a set of 5-bolt fuchs
-/4 items I could sell
-etc., etc.

I likely could build a $75K Canadian (say $50K USD) 914/6....but is that worth investing the time for a spec car???

If you can finish it before the bubble pops, yeah.

Zach

It’s not usually profitable. Most shops can only build to a customer order. Customers will pay more money for what they order than will pay for a spec car. My proof is that if spec cars were profitable, that’s all shops would build. Most shops would love to bypass the 1-3 year customer relationship.

Even in the housing industry, people will pay ~10% more for a home built for them than one a builder builds as a spec home.

Of course it is helpful to have a customer pay as you go but that’s not the only reason to build to suit. In an appreciating market, the house or car will be worth more and could cover the interest paid on a builders loan. Not to mention the hours spent communicating with a customer. Its more than most people realize.

and has why I've never bothered, even spec engines.
This is the first year that I'm thinking of putting a few spec engines in stock, not because it's profitable, but for my convenience... I hate building engines during the summer spoiling my vacation time. Plus I have all these parts I figure I should put them together.



-I've in stock have a bus Type 4 2.0 rebuilt longblock.
-I have most the parts for a stock 2.0 914 turnkey Djet engine re- build, including all the powder coated tin.
-might build a low budget 914 1.7/1.8 long block I have here.
-80X 96mm 914 (2.0) turnkey with 44 webers

- stock type one engine longblock, dual port
-2nd stock type one engine longblock, single port for early bus.
-Gene Berg 2007cc 78H with Berg Weber specials type one turnkey

-rebuild the 2.7 911 core I have

I'd put a 996 engine in stock, but there's just too many variants.

I started accumulating parts in 2003 . I got a low mile ( 36k )3.6 in 2014 the 915 that Mike ( Dr Evil ) went through added Wevo and LSD the same year. I’ve upgraded everything. Brakes suspension re-enforce the body. Painted it added 911 dash lots more than I can’t remember. It will be virtually “new” when done.? I have never sat down and put a pen and added it all up. I know it isn’t cheap but it should be fast!!

Speed is never cheap, and in the end who cares. If you are having fun and have the $$, better do it because who knows what tomorrow will bring. I am falling into the 914 rustout/6 conversion money pit, but I am having fun fabricating and welding the rusted hulk together and looking forward to running down the road with a carb'd 2.7.
I estimate to have $20 or $30k out of pocket + who knows how many hours.

Great discussion gentlemen - appreciate the words of wisdom and experience.

Just to extra clear - I wasn’t asking to go throw money at a shop (hugely expensive and very fairly so), I was honestly just curious what it would cost.

I like being hands on.

Such good advice.
Not often offered or heard I think.

Your car is one of the reasons I started to think this way. Instant classic.

90hp is plenty of fun. Especially with a tight suspension and good tires. You could also build a 1911cc and get close to the 100-110hp of an original 2.0 /6, with less weight, for around $3K.

That's what I did after I priced it all out. I had a good-bones '70 914 I was going to do a conversion on, but to me it didn't pencil out. It may not be fast off the line but I guarantee you I can break the posted speed limit with my 1911. Easy.

Just to but if I was looking at spending nearly $100K on a mid-engine car, it'd be a Ferrari 328GTS.