This hit BAT, https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-porsche-914-6-gt/ Click to view attachment

Its listed in the VIN DB as a factory GT car

*dealer built GT
Click to view attachment

Looks like the yellow Fact Sheet missed the Jacques Duval 1971 Daytona win ¿
John loved his GT, so hopefully (this time) it finds a welcoming home and doesn't travel down the flipper circuit.

Current bid $914!

I used to watch this car race at Seca, have some pics somewhere from 2015 and 2018, I don’t recall it looking as beat down as it does now.... last couple of years look to have been rough on this poor car.

Looks like the vin may be to late to be a factory GT (I’m far from an expert).

I have no idea how this car would come thru a PPI, etc, but I'll say this: Having been on track with it at several events, it's one of my favorite 914s on the west coast.

I hope whoever gets it doesn't ruin (read: over-restore) it, and very much wish I was in the hunt on it.

Cool car....but no longer a true GT to me with a 3.2 stuffed in there.

^ Fair point re: true GT, and should be a 2.0-2.5 with a 901.

With that said, I remember watching a famous 914-6 GT in a straight fight with Cobras out of T11 at Laguna and thinking "A 2.5. Riiiiiiiight…"

Says right in the sale literature that it was built after the fact using gt parts, so no, not a factory gt. This is a 6 with some really cool parts.

For sure a cool build with so many factory M471 parts. No a huge fan of the color, but that's just me. Would make a killer street/vintage racer. Has great history and documentation.

Saw this car at Rennsport and had a great chat with John. Lovely car and awesome how John raced it. As I recall John was asking in the $150k range and not sure how much it finally exchanged hands for, but I recall John being satisfied with the sale. So will be interested to see how the market treats the car.

Floor pans - is that rust? Wonder how much love the car would need as a refresh.

The seller is Tom Shaunessy, a well known Ferrari collector and dabbler in Porsches. Curious how this does.

Same color as my first 914

J/K to each his own! As for car, with the bolt in side bars, that would make a fun street/track car. I’m kind of happy I found and bought my six, otherwise I’d be fighting for this car!

Which is why the category in the VIN database is actually named "GTs - Factory/Dealer/m471" despite what others have claimed earlier in this thread.

Yeah, not factory built. But Glenn’s site shows a separate category for GT’s built / converted by dealers and privateers back in the day. The lowest tier of legit GT’s IMHO. Still very cool IMHO ... for instance, the patina under the f/r trunk lids of this car, the racing history & documents make me drool. And the 3.2’s no big deal to me ... very few GT’s have original engines by now and replacing the 3.2 with something more period correct would only enhance value.

Still way out of reach financially for me ...

To each his own, but a dealer/team-built 914-6 GT with a big win (or big wins) is arguably more valuable than a factory built GT that didn't win anything.

The ultimate, also IMO, is a works team car with great history. Not many of those.

For me, this would be a repaint to orange (outside only, and not to an overdone level) with a 2.5 MFI plus a set-up 901. Love the wheels, stance, trunks, etc. as is. Might add Marathon-style meatballs with no numbers, but wouldn't add much else. Car deserves to keep vintage racing, and be enjoyed on the street a bit. I hope whoever gets it respects its history, "modest" as it may be, and doesn't erase it.

I would bet the vast majority of real GT's are running real number matching motors
they certainly would be most valuable in that condition
and museum quality cars, have a tendency to go back to stock when their value crosses 100,000

I'd bet of the 16+ number... that the majority have correct motors
and its a ding, not to have the number matching motor
especially in vintage racing

that's why I run a 2liter twin plug -6 in mine... correct for vintage racing.

Thanks for the input, Brant. I would have thought those GT’s with race history would have lost their original case over the years ... maybe I’m wrong. I certainly agree wrt value.

It’s gonna be interesting to see if ‘2153 comes anywhere close to this one from last year ...

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31885/impecca...lion-at-auction

Here is an advert for this car from 1985


70 914 3 "Roadster" 9140432153
"3.0 Martin Schneider turbo, 325 hp at 12 lb boost, prof widened Porsche mag wheels,
Scheel seats, 911SC brakes, swaybars, steel flares, new restoration, extra set Centerlines
w/Goodyear gumballs for autocrossing. More. Beautiful & very fast."
$17500
"Tony" "Thurber"
"8 East Broadway"
"Salt Lake City" "UT" "84111"
"801-533-0181" 8/1/1985 "Panorama" PG 95

Good find on that Classified advert Tony was a great customer and this would have been an MSDS single turbo system built for a 3L / c.i.s. engine. I kind of lost touch with him through the years, but he was very pleased with his 914s speed & handling. I had no idea that this car was the same ViN chassis (-2153) that wound up with John S. in San Diego.

Hmmm I didn’t notice that the frunk vin plate does not match the window vin tab. Also no pics of the fender stamp. Commenters are also picking up on the lack of early race documentation. I bet this car doesn’t clear 100k, it needs a full resto, better research and marketing IMO.

Oh boy do I hope you’re wrong, Calvin! If it doesn’t clear $100k, I’ll be kicking myself for not being in a position to bid on it ... too many cars right now, and not enough space. But the more I dig into it, the more I think you may be right.

@GMS - Hi Glenn. Wondering if you have any comments wrt this GT. In particular, I’m curious if, in the process of adding 9140432153 to your database, you saw any documentation of its early life ... I.e. partial dealer conversion to a GT? ... and of any early race history?

My estimate will be "Reserve not met"

Plastic Fuel lines ????

Hi Folks. I was just blocked (I.e. silenced) on BaT for pointing out the VIN number discrepancy in two mfg’s plate photos. The earlier photo showed 9140432163; the recent photo 9140432153. The seller became very combative. Some Photoshopping going on??

Here’s a link to photobucket where I uploaded several comparisons...
https://app.photobucket.com/u/rufusbob

And here are magnifications from my iPhone ...

I'll put my 2 cents in.....no way it reaches $100k.
It's not even $40k with less than a day to go.
There aren't that many comments on the car and they are concentrating on whether or not the VINs have been doctored....don't believe they have, it's just a weird camera angle.

This is a 914-6 that has been converted to GT after leaving the factory, so won't even be considered a "holy grail" like a factory built GT.
This car will only get to a fraction of the near $1million that the Sunoco GT brought.
Less than 10% to be exact.

Will be fun to watch nonetheless.
Car needs a rotisserie restoration, smaller engine, etc to really bring the bucks.

I spent my career doing forensic automotive engineering like this, and also have roots in the early Corvette community where very minute detail in VIN plate characters can expose a difference between, say, a valuable L-88 and a fake. The same is true regarding the subtleties of cylinder head deck broach marks. Money = incentive

To me the 2 photos are clearly different when comparing the upper left portions of the second to last numeral ... one is a “5”; the other a “6”. Focus, angle, etc don’t enter into it, IMHO.

I suppose I could convince myself that the tag is a shadow/angle/focus issue. And what’s the coincidence that the front tub would be replaced with another 6 tub only 10 numbers off? I suppose the easiest solution would have been to show a pic of the fender vin stamping... that’s a bit harder to replace than the headlight and window tin... then that begs the question, why no pics of the fender vin when they seem to capture all the other tags... somethings up here (or I’m lame and just missed the photo). EDIT: I see it now. I see it on my computer, but not on my iPad. I had to refresh my safari window for them to show up.

Regardless seems like seller really gave up trying when race history and engine questions came up. Seller did a huge disservice to the 914 community with this ill prepared sale. IMO, This car should have easily hit $75k-100k if it’s all it’s stated to be.

There was a photo of the fender stamp But it was apparently taken down along with the newer VIN plate photo with “matching” number that I used for my comparison.
(1:24 am EDT Update: unless I missed something, the most recent photos of the mfg’s tag & fender stamp have reappeared in the auction. Not sure what’s going on, but I stand by my original observation that the VIN shown in photo #183 ... 9140432163 doesn’t match the VIN everywhere else ... 9140432153.)

Sheeesh ... I wasn’t trying to start an uproar. I just wanted a forthright explanation. A mistake at the factory? ... a replacement due to a shunt somewhere in the the car’s racing history, maybe a mixup with a photo of another grey 914/6 with an almost identical VIN tag?? ... or?

Update: I (finally?) realized it’s possible to interpret that number in the VIN plate photo as either a “5” or a “6” depending on whether your eyes pick up on the light or the dark colors in the image.

I just emailed my apologies to the BaT community, and wish to extend the same apologies here. Hopefully my BaT ‘time out’ will end soon.

Bob

As I’m sure most of you know, there is additional info on this car included on Armando’s “definitive” GT site

https://pbase.com/9146gt/dealer_9146gt_race...153_john_straub

It is as authentic of a M471 modified car as there is out there. As much as I like signal orange, the fact that this car was color changed at the time of its M471 modification is a valid part of its true history. Thinking of changing it back would be a tough decision .would you return the Conda Green Max Moritz car back to its original Light Ivory!?

@Gereed75 - Thanks for your post on BaT.

I’m feeling kinda foolish right now ...

Here’s my email to BaT:

Hello - I wish to apologize for my part in the VIN plate fiasco on this listing. After studying photo #138 more, I now see how the 2nd to last numeral could either be interpreted as a “5” or a “6” depending on whether one’s eyes pick up on the light or the dark colorings in the image. Thus, I believe the quality of that photo was somewhat poor, and contributed to the confusion. I think others alluded to the same thing.

Perhaps Mr. Shaughnessy could also have addressed my concern on such an important characteristic of a highly prized car more directly rather than with what I felt was a somewhat dismissive “it’s fine”.

My primary interest is to fully retract any and all concerns I expressed, apologize to all those involved in this auction, and wish Mr Shaughnessy the best of luck in this auction.

My hope is that BaT can post some or all of these comments before the auction closes today.

Sincerely,
Bob

@Rufus , regardless of the outcome, I think your questioning was valid, the seller was very slow to respond to the original mention of the VIN issue. Also missing photos of the fender was weird as well. I mentioned above, bad preparation...

It seems to be moving now, but it's still a long way from $100K...

^ Good point on the gray. While my aesthetic preference would be to return the car to Signal Orange, I do like it in the gray and it's part of the car's history. Hmm. Maybe I'd go back to orange for my time with it and let someone else redo the gray if they want it? I dunno. Nice thing is, either way, it's an exterior only. Unless there' a real need to redo the car on a rotisserie, I'd avoid that at all costs to prevent erasing the patina and vibe of this car, which has always been wonderful to me. "Perfect" 914s are on the rise, great survivors or simple well used and presented cars are getting rarer.

Earlier comments wondering how this car will do vs the Daytona winner struck me as the wrong way to look at John Straub's old car, just as so many nit picks do. I've raced against that car, and have seen it in so many paddocks at premiere events as a spectator. I have no idea how it would come through a PPI, or what it needs, but it's a super cool car with a lot of cool history and a lot of great parts installed in period. The idea that it might not get bid up to the level of some rough "so-so" restorations of plain 914-6s is wild to me.

Sad to see the confidence shaken by comments on that BaT thread, especially as they get tagged to that VIN "forever," and while I feel funny about getting involved in comments on a car for sale given my day job, I've thought about it this time as a number of people seem to confuse me our own Pete000 over there on BaT (my username is pstout, but I'm just about never logged in).

iirc this car was FS on Panorama about a yr ago asking $135K - maybe somebody has copy of that advert?

car seems to have had many different race engines - 2.0, 3.0 turbo, now 3.2

long ago iirc reading about one of our GT racers who had a stable of engines & would routinely change 'em depending on the race venue - don't recall if it was about Straub & can't find that article now

Coronado General Racing 2007
Group 5 — 1962-1970 Prod. Sports Cars under 2000cc

40 1970 Porsche 914/6GT 1991cc Jon Wactor Oakland, CA
70 1970 Porsche 914/6GT 1991cc John Straub La Mesa, CA
141 1970 Porsche 914/6GT 1991cc Ranson Webster Reno, NV
180 1970 Porsche 914/6GT 2000cc Edie Arrowsmith Scottsdale, AZ
http://www.coronadospeedfestival.com/event/participate.html


Rennsport Reunion V 914-6 Group 3 (should have been only legit 2.0 cars )
Class Car Entrant Driver
Group 3 1970 Porsche 914/4 Allen Michael Allen, Michael
Group 3 1971 Porsche 914 Frank Trevor Frank, Trevor

Group 3 1970 Porsche 914-6 GT Arrowsmith Edith Arrowsmith, Edith
Group 3 1970 Porsche 914-6 Arrowsmith Edith Desimone, Leon
Group 3 1971 Porsche 914/6 Gruber Thomas Gruber, Thomas
Group 3 1970 Porsche 914-6 GT Lapine Hans Lapine, Hans
Group 3 1970 Porsche 914/6 GT Straub John Straub, John
Group 3 1970 Porsche 914/6 GT Webster Ranson Webster, Ranson


RR-V
.Click to view attachment

The following was found at: www.pca.org
19 Nov 2018


1970 914-6 (#35930)
Published: 10/22/2018
Last Updated: 11/15/2018
$135,000
Vin: 9140432153, 914-6GT, Early 70s build/original factory GT parts. Owned for 30 years.
Still has it's Factory GT parts on it. Raced Hill Climbs, 3 Rennsport events in the historic
class, Monterey Historics, Sonoma, Coronado, plus others. Shown at 5 Parade Historic Car Displays.
Non-original engine. Email for spec sheet and photos. Street licenced. Serious inquiries.
Mileage:
50,000
Exterior Color:
Gunmetal Gray
Interior Color:
Black
La Mesa, CA 91942
United States
John Straub

Agreed!

SOLD $116,000. + 5%

the 2.0 alu case is worth $10K alone +/- (if it really is aluminum)

Happily eating my words!!!

No wonder BaT brings such high bids on cars. I was watching and didn't realize with each bid, the little timer sets back to 2 minutes. Gives time for bidders to think...what's another $1k.

$116k now, keeps going up.

Went for 116K, a pretty good showing and a fun auction!

I’m happy it sold. IMHO a smokin deal on a legitimate 914/6 GT ... the holy grail

Just sold for $116 k without auction costs. Amazing car - wow

Very cool car and history. I had fleeting thoughts of being able to get this and swap the race 2.2 liter built on a 914-6 case from my "tribute" GT into this car, put a 3.2 in mine and sell my current car. I couldn't swing it at that price though and it seems like the buyer got a good deal. I thought it might hit $125k. At the end of the day I'm more comfortable wheel to wheel racing what I have, should something happen. It will never get me into Rennsport though

Think the VIN stink that really wasn't a thing...held the car back a bit.

I don't think so, at the end there were two real buyers that sat in waiting, rest were out of their league looking for a steal, once it hit $80k it separated the boys from the men. Whoever it was at the end that started pushing the historical info from Armando's site brought it back into focus, but i think the two final bidders knew exactly what they were looking at.

Realistically that car needs a new engine, prob why the seller claimed no info on it. So build that into sale price and this this is probably close. I don't agree with the notion that 'also ran' race cars should have similar or close proximity to value of their podium finish brethren. I have the same opinion with the IMSA cars...