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Red76
Anyone in this community ever purchased the Jake Raby designed 2563 engine kit from the Type4 Store.
Im looking for some build tips from anyone with the experience behind them.

In the instructions that come with the kit they say to remove 1.5 grams from each side of the big end of the rods before balancing them. Cant seem to find any info as to why this is. Clearance issues maybe with the camshaft?

The second question I have regards installation of a full flow oil filter. The kit comes with an oil cooler block off plate, billet oil pump cover with a single outlet, a Schadek 30mm oil pump, one brass 90* elbow and 4 threaded oil galley plugs.
Since there are a total of 12 oil galley plugs on the type 4 case I want to be certain to use the correct ones for connecting this setup. Obviously I dont want to use the ones behind the flywheel. Can anyone point me towards info about making this modification?
Tdskip
Have you asked Jake?
Mark Henry
Ambitious kit for a novice. Is that a 82mm crank size?
You have to clearance the rods to clear a cam lobe, really only one rod, but you have to match the rest. The rods have to be balanced after clearancing, really the whole engine should be balanced.
Dry fit and check everything, severial times over.

The galley plugs there are five bigger ones, 3 behind the flywheel and two beside the OE filter console. The two beside the filter console you use the top one for the fitting. The new plugs are 3/8" NPT, the OE pressed in plugs ar a simular diameter.
For a full flow cover you will also have to use a modified engine mount to clear the oil line/hose. I can do this mod, PM me if interested for the details.
wndsrfr
QUOTE(Tdskip @ Mar 28 2021, 04:53 AM) *

Have you asked Jake?

GO through Jake's video a couple of times before you start anything, then again as you proceed. I had to grind off the "corners" on the big end of the rods where they run close to the cam on my 80mm stroker. Balance, balance, balance everything...
Mark Henry
Below is my engine mount for a Full Flow oil pump cover.
The engine pic is from my '67 bug engine build which is the exact same size as the engine you are building, 78mm X 102mm.
So I just may know exactly what you're talking about. shades.gif

IPB Image
IPB Image
IPB Image
IPB Image

I've built several of these big bore nickies engines mostly for VW bug and 356 kit T4 conversions.

IPB Image

IPB Image
Red76
Mark,
Looks like the same engine mounts. Just one of the surprises you run into doing mods like this. Im curious about the plumbing/routing of the oil lines once you install thebypass. I assume the port on the pump cover is the pressure side. Where does the relocated line get routed to?
I have an oil flow schematic for the type4 but im not sure which galley plugs get the pressure in.

Any pics you can share are appreciated.
I haven’t built one of these in over 30 yrs so I have forgotten more than I knew to start with.
Mark Henry
I'm assuming you're doing a front cooler set-up with this pump kit?

The pump is likely plugged but you always check, now the oil is coming out of the pump cover, then in to the remote oil filter console mounted to the lower firewall, then out to a Mocal t-stat, then out to your front cooler, return to the t-stat, back out and into the case front top oil galley you tapped.
I can explain better when you get to this point, just worry about the galley plugs, pump and cover right now.

-I personally would keep the stock cooler and stock T-stat, some mostly racers delete the stock cooler when using the front cooler.
-I'd for sure keep stock cooler if doing only a rear remote cooler.
-Remote coolers I'd use a remote T-stat, the 30mm pumps produces a lot of pressure when cold.

Carbs or EFI you need a wideband O2 meter.
And a good header at least a 1-5/8".



Note always confirm the connections are correct for your gear.
Mark Henry
Dp
Red76
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Mar 28 2021, 12:22 PM) *

I'm assuming you're doing a front cooler set-up with this pump kit?

The pump is likely plugged but you always check, now the oil is coming out of the pump cover, then in to the remote oil filter console mounted to the lower firewall, then out to a Mocal t-stat, then out to your front cooler, return to the t-stat, back out and into the case front top oil galley you tapped.

-I personally would keep the stock cooler and stock T-stat, some mostly racers delete the stock cooler when using the front cooler.
-I'd for sure keep stock cooler if doing only a rear remote cooler.
-Remote coolers I'd use a remote T-stat, the 30mm pumps produces a lot of pressure when cold.

Carbs or EFI you need a wideband O2 meter.
And a good header at least a 1-5/8".



Note always confirm the connections are correct for your gear.


Yes the pump is plugged. Just checked that. Nice shiny brass plug. I do have some concerns about the amount of pressure this produces when cold. I’ll have to be certain to monitor that for sure. What size pump did you use on your motor? And how much pressure does it make?
I will be using a remote cooler / tstat setup with an electric fan mounted under the rear trunk. (914) and keeping the stock cooler as well.
Planning to run dual weber 44idf’s and , you might think I’m crazy but using the same stainless steel exaust/heat exchangers that were on the car. I don’t plan on racing this car. Just an occasional autocross maybe. Since I have put so much time and money into this restoration I will be driving the wheels off of it. Lots of great mountain roads here. And I like to have heat/defrost in the colder months.
The research I come up with indicates the sensor for the wideband is ideally placed 24” downstream of the exhaust which presents a bit of a problem with the heat exchangers.
If you’re familiar with them, there is a short clean run just before bolting onto the muffler. I suppose mounting one there would be better than nothing.
Red76
QUOTE(Red76 @ Mar 28 2021, 12:49 PM) *

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Mar 28 2021, 12:22 PM) *

I'm assuming you're doing a front cooler set-up with this pump kit?

The pump is likely plugged but you always check, now the oil is coming out of the pump cover, then in to the remote oil filter console mounted to the lower firewall, then out to a Mocal t-stat, then out to your front cooler, return to the t-stat, back out and into the case front top oil galley you tapped.

-I personally would keep the stock cooler and stock T-stat, some mostly racers delete the stock cooler when using the front cooler.
-I'd for sure keep stock cooler if doing only a rear remote cooler.
-Remote coolers I'd use a remote T-stat, the 30mm pumps produces a lot of pressure when cold.

Carbs or EFI you need a wideband O2 meter.
And a good header at least a 1-5/8".



Note always confirm the connections are correct for your gear.


Yes the pump is plugged. Just checked that. Nice shiny brass plug. I do have some concerns about the amount of pressure this produces when cold. I’ll have to be certain to monitor that for sure. What size pump did you use on your motor? And how much pressure does it make?
I will be using a remote cooler / tstat setup with an electric fan mounted under the rear trunk. (914) and keeping the stock cooler as well.
Planning to run dual weber 44idf’s and , you might think I’m crazy but using the same stainless steel exaust/heat exchangers that were on the car. I don’t plan on racing this car. Just an occasional autocross maybe. Since I have put so much time and money into this restoration I will be driving the wheels off of it. Lots of great mountain roads here. And I like to have heat/defrost in the colder months.
The research I come up with indicates the sensor for the wideband is ideally placed 24” downstream of the exhaust which presents a bit of a problem with the heat exchangers.
If you’re familiar with them, there is a short clean run just before bolting onto the muffler. I suppose mounting one there would be better than nothing.

Also - this case of mine has only one oil pressure relief valve. Supposed to have one between the pushrod tubes of #1 cyl but that is just an empty hole. It has never been tapped. Wonder what effect that will have on my oil pressure. There is a relief spring in the stock filter mount for bypass but noplace else. (2.0L case #GC 006666) I call it the devils case.
Mark Henry
I wonder if it's a replacement case? Mechanically doesn't matter leave it alone.
Mark Henry
Put a proper header on that puppy!

I bet you'll be leaving 30HP on the table with SSI's.
You're spending all this money and forgeting the greatest single bolt on HP gain of your project which is the header.
Red76
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Mar 28 2021, 01:24 PM) *

Put a proper header on that puppy!

I bet you'll be leaving 30HP on the table with SSI's.
You're spending all this money and forgeting the greatest single bolt on HP gain of your project which is the header.


I know, I know. Told you you would think im crazy. I gotta have heat though. It will still run circles around the stock motor and for that I will be grateful. Since the header is an easy bolt on I might do it at a later time. If the thing is too loud though it might attract more attention than I want.

I know what to do about my rod/cam clearance now. Will be working on that then taking everything off to be balanced.

Just did a dry fitup with the pump cover and engine mount. I see what needs to be done there too.
blabla914
I know, I know. Told you you would think im crazy. I gotta have heat though. It will still run circles around the stock motor and for that I will be grateful. Since the header is an easy bolt on I might do it at a later time. If the thing is too loud though it might attract more attention than I want.

Did you run use of stock heat exchangers with this motor combo by Jake? Big valve heads hooked up to stock HEs run hot. Not saying it won't work, but previous exchanges I've had with Jake he said no bigger than 36 mm exhaust valve with stock HEs. 36mm is also stock for the 3 bolt 2.0L head. This was a long time ago, so his guidance could have changed.

Good luck with this build, should be a strong motor.

Kelly
zig-n-zag
I bought a Raby 2563 engine kit, that I haven’t put together.

My guess is your instructions may be referring to conrod side-to-side clearance, and/or rod bearing clearance to rod journal fillets.

Using 38mm size exhaust valves with stock size HE’s, it will create a choke point and the engine will not be able to shed the heat because the exhaust pipe is too small. There won’t be a problem using 36mm exhaust valves and HE’s with that size engine.



Red76
QUOTE(blabla914 @ Mar 28 2021, 05:58 PM) *

I know, I know. Told you you would think im crazy. I gotta have heat though. It will still run circles around the stock motor and for that I will be grateful. Since the header is an easy bolt on I might do it at a later time. If the thing is too loud though it might attract more attention than I want.

Did you run use of stock heat exchangers with this motor combo by Jake? Big valve heads hooked up to stock HEs run hot. Not saying it won't work, but previous exchanges I've had with Jake he said no bigger than 36 mm exhaust valve with stock HEs. 36mm is also stock for the 3 bolt 2.0L head. This was a long time ago, so his guidance could have changed.

Good luck with this build, should be a strong motor.

Kelly


I tried contacting the folks at RAT (Jake) and they called me back but I was told they dont support these motors/kits any more. Sold it all to LNengineering several years ago. Disappointed I was. Just searching for some info. They are plenty nice about returning the call though.
The kit comes with LE 200 heads which appear to be top of the line without exceptions.
I can see how stock HE’s could cause problems.
Spoke to George at AutoAtlanta. His spin on the idea is that it should be fine.
Looks like I have to be the guinea pig here and try and see what happens.



rick 918-S
Restrictive exhaust will cause heating issues on that engine. You are spending money on HP and trying to retain the stock features of stock engine. Self defeating.
Mark Henry
I can pretty well tell you Jake wouldn't even build you this engine if you're using SSI's.
In fact he may even not want to talk to you because you want to use SSI's.

Believe me I've gone through every option, argued this very SSI question with Jake, etc. etc. etc. but my years of building performance engines tells me he's correct.

Your other options for heat.

-Sell your SSI's and buy a Tangerine 4-2-1 header with the heater box option. It's not SSI heat but at least it will defrost your windshield.
-Install heated seats.
-Install a gas heater.
-wear warmer clothes.

BTW I have a Tangerine 4-2-1 header with an EVO 2 muffler hanging on the wall here waiting for my next performance 914/4 build. I may take the 2.6 out of my bug and put it in my wifes 914...or I have a 2.3 sitting on the bench waiting to be built...or a fresh 2.0 djet...too many engines!
blink.gif rolleyes.gif laugh.gif
Red76
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Mar 29 2021, 07:59 AM) *

I can pretty well tell you Jake wouldn't even build you this engine if you're using SSI's.
In fact he may even not want to talk to you because you want to use SSI's.

Believe me I've gone through every option, argued this very SSI question with Jake, etc. etc. etc. but my years of building performance engines tells me he's correct.

Your other options for heat.

-Sell your SSI's and buy a Tangerine 4-2-1 header with the heater box option. It's not SSI heat but at least it will defrost your windshield.
-Install heated seats.
-Install a gas heater.
-wear warmer clothes.

BTW I have a Tangerine 4-2-1 header with an EVO 2 muffler hanging on the wall here waiting for my next performance 914/4 build. I may take the 2.6 out of my bug and put it in my wifes 914...or I have a 2.3 sitting on the bench waiting to be built...or a fresh 2.0 djet...too many engines!
blink.gif rolleyes.gif laugh.gif

Aight! I get it. You guys are killing me. You are all correct. I’m gonna have to cave in and go for the tangerine pipe. Its only money right? Cant take it with me.

ottox914
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Mar 29 2021, 08:59 AM) *

...too many engines!
blink.gif rolleyes.gif laugh.gif


...no such thing.
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