I have a new unused Mocal thermostat (bought by PO) that I'll be using with my front mounted oil cooler but I don't know what fitting size works with it. I will be using AN-12 hose but what connector is required?

Doug C

It'll need to look something like I did in the pic.

Where you put it,and the fittings you use to plumb it are completely up to you.



Ron

i've heard the Mocals are AN-12. check out Pegasus or BAT for specs on Mocal parts, and the Earl's page for the tech pages that give measurements on the fitting sizes.

if that doesn't answer your question, i didn't understand it...

Thanks Art, you always come through for me..you know I have a AN-12 fitting at home and haven't tried it..for some reason I just assumed it was an American standard pipe size or something. Well that makes things a bit easier if it is AN.

Ron, I will be doing what you did. Thanks for the picture, do you have a better shot of how (where) the thermostat's mounted? I can't quite make it out in the provided picture.

Doug C

you are welcome.

maybe it's the lack of scale but Ron's pictures look bigger than AN-12 to me.
IF POSSIBLE and the thermostat is AN-16, i would run -16 lines to and from the thermostat. they're the short ones so it should keep the cost down a bit. when the oil is cold and being bypassed by the thermostat, you're giving it the biggest possible hose to run through.

then, if you've chosen to run AN-12 to the cooler and back, you'll at least know that you are doing it to hot oil, and you can run your -16 -> -12 reducer on that side of the thermostat.

just a thought...

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Jul 20 2005, 10:45 AM)

maybe it's the lack of scale but Ron's pictures look bigger than AN-12 to me. IF POSSIBLE and the thermostat is AN-16, i would run -16 lines to and from the thermostat.

Yeah Rich,

You got me,the Mocal in the pic is sized -16 at all 4 corners.

I plumbed it front to back,engine to tank in -16.I stepped it all down with a -16 to -12 reducer elbow
where it turns to go into the oil tank.


Ron

Ron, let me get this straight..That's all -16 hose in the picture except the one going into the tank? I mean to me, the red hose in the foreground (tank to engine oil tank) looks like -16 and the rest looks like -12. The red hose in your picture is larger isn't it? What size is it. Or are you saying that it's a AN-16 thermostat and you've reduced it down to -12 with four reducers?

Doug C

i can't tell if the red (firesleeve) hose is actually bigger (like -20) or if it's just the sleeve making it look that way.

but it's clearly for something else. i donno what, i don't recall all the details of Ron's car. but if you follow that hose that heads off over to the right side of the car, i believe you can see the stepdown fitting in that line.

sometimes guys with front tanks run -20 breather hoses, but i don't think Ron has a front tank, and that's not where a breather would go...

transmission cooler?

When I built my car I was confused by all of the stuff about hoses etc.

I found a hydraulic hose company that made hose for contractors and manufacturers. They had hose for every conceivable application from bulldozers to huge punch presses, from like ¼” to 8” or 10” hose with all kinds of high pressure ratings and all kinds of fluids, from hydraulic fluid, brake fluid, oils, fuels, etc.

Their hose was all made of whatever material worked with the various fluids, and it was all jacketed with braided stainless steel mesh.

They used steel fittings which they “swedged” on using a big hydraulic press and special dies. The fittings are guaranteed not to blow off under thousands of psi.

Dash sizing of hose is American standard. It is measured in sixteenths of an inch. Therefore dash 12 or –12 is 12/16 inches or ¾” inside diameter hose. –16 is 16/16” or 1” inside diameter.

Fittings are made for the various size hose.

“AN” as a fitting designation refers to an anodized aluminum material used in manufacture of the fitting. Something people can work with at home or with hand tools. (None of us could afford “swedging” presses or the dies used.)

Once I had seen what they did and how they did it and the applications it was used for, I used their material for all the lines in my car. ¾” hose from the engine to the thermostat. ¾” from the thermostat to the oil cooler and then from the cooler to the tank, both are in the front of the 914. Then I used 1” from the tank back to the engine. The fuel lines are also braided stainless with swedged fittings both on the pressure side (fuel pump in front trunk under the gas tank) and on the return side to the tank. All lines run through the cockpit. (I was behind a 911 one day on a track that hit something and burst an oil line that was running up through his right side wheel well, and the track got just a little bit slick with 3 gallons of oil on it).

Anyone who is contemplating a front mounted cooler or changing fuel lines in a 914: Get in the yellow pages and find a hydraulic hose supplier in your town, and go visit them and talk to them about what you need.

PS, it was cheaper to buy the stuff from them than to buy the fittings made from aluminum and try to make my own. The only problem was getting them made the right length. After some conversation and measuring, they made up hose for me with a fitting on one end. I took it home, installed it, and marked where I wanted the hose cut off and the fitting installed on the other end. I got the whole thing done with three trips to their shop. They were probably 25 miles from my house, but these guys were open on Saturdays.

PSS, they loved doing it, and were real proud of the car when I got it done, I took it over and showed it to them.

QUOTE (flesburg @ Jul 20 2005, 05:04 PM)

“AN” as a fitting designation refers to an anodized aluminum material used in manufacture of the fitting.

good advice and information, except for that part.

"AN" comes from its original use: Aircraft-Navy.

(for instance, there are lots of steel AN fittings.)

That is good info Dale, I actually had some a/c hoses custom made for my M3 at a local rubber shop that supplies parts for the trucking industry. Think I may swing by there this weekend.

Doug C

Now that I'm back at work,heres a little more info on my setup.
In the attached pic

#1 is the return line from the engine.I made if from a 911 return line I picked up at Hershey this year for 15bucks.al I did was heat it and form it over and over,install,take off and heat and form,then install again,over & over til it fit nicely.then I had the local fitting company slide some fire sleeve on it and tig-weld a -16 male on the end.wa-la,that part was done.

#2 is the engine oil supply line.I originally made it outa hosing,but it needed to many fittings to make all the bends.It looked clumsy,and unprofessional to me,so I made a rigid line outa 1" aluminum conduit that I had around the shop here.The i.d. is actually slightly bigger than the -16 hose i.d. so again,all I did was heat and form til it fit nice and snug.Then I added some firesleeve,then tig-welded the -16 female fittings on each end,and it was done.

#3 shows the -16 to -12 reducer elbow in the outlet of the thermostat where it exits to return to the tank.My tank is a stock tank in the stock location.

The setup is pretty much leak free,no puddles on the garage floor.


Hope it helps.

Ron

This pic shows another angle on the engine return line I made.

Heres a third shot of the return line.

Heres a shot of the original line I made from hose & fittings for the engine supply,

It didn't look good in my opinion,so I remade it from aluminum.

Here's a final shot of how the supply line snakes around to fit the adaptor fitting on the engine block.

By the way,that adaptor fitting that I got from PMS. is a full swivel fitting,but won't stay dry.

It doesn't drip leak,but it does continue to get wet.

Ron, thanks for the pictures and the more detailed write-up. I tried placing my thermostat where your's seems to be and couldn't. Maybe you've removed your stock engine mounting points, cut them off and that gives you the room? I may have to attach mine to the lower firewall..?

Doug C

QUOTE (DougC @ Jul 21 2005, 06:53 AM)

I tried placing my thermostat where your's seems to be and couldn't. Maybe you've removed your stock engine mounting points, cut them off and that gives you the room? I may have to attach mine to the lower firewall..? Doug C

My car is an original 6r,so it never had any engine mounts in the location I mounted my thermostat.



Ron

OH, OK that's what's different then. BTW, my Mocal thermostat must use -10AN fitting because the -12 that I tried last night was too big. Think that would be a problem if using with a /6?

Doug C

QUOTE (DougC @ Jul 21 2005, 11:29 AM)

...my Mocal thermostat must use -10AN fitting... Think that would be a problem if using with a /6?

yup.

(sorry...)

-16 is best, that way you can use big lines to and from the engine, and reducers to and from the cooler if you have to.

-12 is adequate.

-10 is for /4's ...

When we converted our DE car to a 6 and added oil lines etc., and I discovered the Hydraulic oil line guy that I described in the above notes, we located the oil tank, filter, cooler and thermostat all in the front trunk.

The attached picture shows where we mounted the thermostat, and the oil tank, filter and cooler. The oil lines you see are all dash 12 lines. The dash 16 line runs from the bottom of the oil tank back to the engine.

By the way, the cooler is a 25 row unit I found at Pegasus in Milwaukee, along with the oil filter (the canon unit), and the tank came from California somewhere.

We have run our car on the track in 90+ degree weather and have never had an oil temp reading go over 200 degrees. The tank holds 4 gallons of oil and I generally put in 3.5 gallons when I change it. It has been in the car since 1990, and knock on wood! The engine is a 3.2 unit that is virtually stock except for exaust and air cleaner.

The 3" orange hose is used for cooling air for the front brakes.

Good luck with placement of your thermostat and the lines.

QUOTE (flesburg @ Jul 21 2005, 01:56 PM)

When we converted our DE car to a 6 and added oil lines ... we located the oil tank, filter, cooler and thermostat all in the front trunk.

IOW - it's a hot-weather car...

if you have the tank in the front, you pretty much have to pump the oil there.

but for a street car, especially one with the tank in the OEM location in the back, IMO it's not a good idea to run the thermostat close to the cooler. you have to pump the cold, thick oil all the way to the front, only to have it bypass the cooler and be pumped back to the tank. the thermostat should be close to the tank and engine.

i'm glad your solution is working for you in the limited circumstances in which it operates, but i don't think it's the best solution for a car with a tank in the factory location.