I've been watching some videos on Type 1 engine rebuilds. It appears there's an aftermarket option for all the Type 1 parts including new aluminum case. It seems 150hp
is attainable with a Type 1, while we're all happy with 125hp from a 2056cc Type 4.
So here are my questions:
- Does a 150hp Type 1 (with Al case) lack the longevity of a Type 4? Is there any reason to put a Type 4 in a bug or squareback to get more reliable power?
- Do most who do a conversion from Type 1 to Type 4 use a Type 1 transmission? Any modification required? Will a Type 4 mate up with an automatic in a VW squareback?
Thanks.
Full Version: Type1 or 3 to Type 4 Conversion Questions
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=436269
people used to do this to type3s in aus 20+ years ago.
orig type 3 suitcase motors are the least durable of vw engines.
at least in aus in hot conditions.
VW laid the oil cooler down flat midway between and above cylinder 3 and 4.
an adaption of type 1 engine without a real redesign.
#3 at the back of the engine (towards front of car) - always ran hotter as air had passed through or by oil cooler first. oil cooler ran hot as air had gone past #4. burned and dropped #3 valves even when pampered. maybe better in cold climates.
type 4 engine oil cooler at front receives cool air directly from fan and the ducting and flow of air is a better design to cool #3 and 4.
i used to have a squareback type 3 for many years. i had to baby it in summer in aus.
it did not take much for it too run too hot. i don't think i ever got much more than 30,000 mi between rebuilding the heads. changed oil at 1,500 mi, did all those tricks.
but heat gets them. type 4 much less fragile in heat.
by heat i mean high 30 and low 40 dg C. we get real heat in aus, like death valley.
type 4 engine cures those woes and is more durable than type 1 - stock or warmed up.
people used to do this to type3s in aus 20+ years ago.
orig type 3 suitcase motors are the least durable of vw engines.
at least in aus in hot conditions.
VW laid the oil cooler down flat midway between and above cylinder 3 and 4.
an adaption of type 1 engine without a real redesign.
#3 at the back of the engine (towards front of car) - always ran hotter as air had passed through or by oil cooler first. oil cooler ran hot as air had gone past #4. burned and dropped #3 valves even when pampered. maybe better in cold climates.
type 4 engine oil cooler at front receives cool air directly from fan and the ducting and flow of air is a better design to cool #3 and 4.
i used to have a squareback type 3 for many years. i had to baby it in summer in aus.
it did not take much for it too run too hot. i don't think i ever got much more than 30,000 mi between rebuilding the heads. changed oil at 1,500 mi, did all those tricks.
but heat gets them. type 4 much less fragile in heat.
by heat i mean high 30 and low 40 dg C. we get real heat in aus, like death valley.
type 4 engine cures those woes and is more durable than type 1 - stock or warmed up.
Click to view attachment
You mean like this?
I even kept the L Jet with bigger valves and 96 birals. the crank was the biggest I could put in without machine work so IIRC 78 counterweighted.
Hardest part is making the adapter to pull cool air into the fan from the duct work.
You mean like this?
I even kept the L Jet with bigger valves and 96 birals. the crank was the biggest I could put in without machine work so IIRC 78 counterweighted.
Hardest part is making the adapter to pull cool air into the fan from the duct work.
QUOTE(djway @ May 11 2021, 10:04 PM) 
Click to view attachment
You mean like this?
I even kept the L Jet with bigger valves and 96 birals. the crank was the biggest I could put in without machine work so IIRC 78 counterweighted.
Hardest part is making the adapter to pull cool air into the fan from the duct work.
sauve.
you are making me what to have a square-back again.
going all nostalgic.
i remember there is no tin dividing the engine compartment in a type 3.
ducted cold induction air and ducted fan bellows.
works ok up to a point except in death valley.
looks like you do have tin sealing top and bottom of engine with that install?
Number one reason for a T4 conversion stock 95hp vs 50hp.
150 hp in a T1 is doable but be aware 95% of T1 HP claims are pure
I've lost many jobs because I refuse to lie out of my ass like many builders. I have a true 100HP Gene Berg engine that constantly would beat a friends "150 HP" engine.
I have a 2600cc T4 engine, 78mmX102mm, in a T1 '67 bug with a 911 5-speed transmission. I could have used a bug trans, you can buy a 200mm T1 conversion flywheel from AA.
No clue if a T4 will bolt up to a T3 Borg-Warner auto, but this is the only VW auto trans that could handle the power increase.
I had a squareback and was just about to do the T4 conversion but, I sold the car.
150 hp in a T1 is doable but be aware 95% of T1 HP claims are pure
I've lost many jobs because I refuse to lie out of my ass like many builders. I have a true 100HP Gene Berg engine that constantly would beat a friends "150 HP" engine.
I have a 2600cc T4 engine, 78mmX102mm, in a T1 '67 bug with a 911 5-speed transmission. I could have used a bug trans, you can buy a 200mm T1 conversion flywheel from AA.
No clue if a T4 will bolt up to a T3 Borg-Warner auto, but this is the only VW auto trans that could handle the power increase.
I had a squareback and was just about to do the T4 conversion but, I sold the car.
Mark said it best.
While I would love to have the T4 in my beetle I feel when the time comes for me to drop my engine I will just build it up with new parts from AA. They make it even easier now with bigger drop in P&C's and bigger port heads to match. There is a lot of customization that needs to take place to drop in the T4 including a way to cool it.
While I would love to have the T4 in my beetle I feel when the time comes for me to drop my engine I will just build it up with new parts from AA. They make it even easier now with bigger drop in P&C's and bigger port heads to match. There is a lot of customization that needs to take place to drop in the T4 including a way to cool it.
QUOTE(wonkipop @ May 12 2021, 02:39 AM)
QUOTE(djway @ May 11 2021, 10:04 PM)
Click to view attachment
You mean like this?
I even kept the L Jet with bigger valves and 96 birals. the crank was the biggest I could put in without machine work so IIRC 78 counterweighted.
Hardest part is making the adapter to pull cool air into the fan from the duct work.
sauve.
you are making me what to have a square-back again.
going all nostalgic.
i remember there is no tin dividing the engine compartment in a type 3.
ducted cold induction air and ducted fan bellows.
works ok up to a point except in death valley.
looks like you do have tin sealing top and bottom of engine with that install?
The tin you see up front is just to help keep stuff out, the rest of the compartment is not sealed.
Made an adapter so the fan gets cool air and the intake gets cool air. It is a Notchback so I wonder about low pressure around the intake grill at speed.
It has more than enough power for me so I am happy.
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