I don't know enough about alignment to know whether this is a dumb question, so here goes...

Before I flared my car I was running 7x16s all round and the front suspension had to be set to max camber just so they wouldn't run (previous owner did this and I never changed it).

Now the flares are on I'm running 8x15s in the front with plenty of room for adjustment, so I'm wondering how much camber I should have in the front for a street/occasional AX car?

I'm guessing it's best I tell the guy at the alignment shop rather than leave it up to him, although maybe I'm wrong.

John

I find it best with alignment shops to tell them exactly what you want, and often times you also have to walk them through how to get there as they tend to be pretty clueless, at least around here. I even started doing my own alignments on my Autox car after some yahoo took an impact gun to the bolts holding my rear arms on and managed to snap one off.

Ideal settings are going to depend on the rest of your setup, but in general I think the answer is usually "all the camber you can get" given the stock components dont really allow for that much in the first place. I find im usually not able to get more than 1.5-2deg without modifications/custom parts.

Betty and I have over 30 years experience with autocrossing 914s. Loosen up the strut tops. Push the strut all the way in, and all the way back. Then put the alignment gauges on it and make them match in both camber and caster. If you want to be really picky, you can take the strut top out and grind out the holes a little bit to make it even with the side with more camber and caster.

Set the toe to .5 in.

The reason for this is you want more camber in the front, and when you add negative caster, the outboard wheel in a turn will get more camber. Physics forces the car to load the outboard wheel, and that makes it try to stand up straighter. So more camber means more rubber on the pavement on the outboard wheel when cornering.

On the rear, we run about 2.5 degrees negative camber, and 0 degrees toe. Yes, you have to set the toe in the rear. To make it easier, make a bar that fits between shock mounts on the rear of the trailing arms, and put a turnbuckle in the middle. Loosen one side, adjust the toe, then tighten it up, and loosen the other side and adjust. Repeat until you get the toe set right.

This will affect the tire wear. But not dramatically enough to worry about.

Hope that helps.

Clay, do you really set front toe at 1/2 an inch??
I've never done one yet so I don't really know but after aligning cars for 30 years, I've never set one beyond 1/8" total...

0.5" toe out at the front for an autocross car is not surprising to me. Back in the day, my old BSP 240z had the same basic approach (on the front suspension) as Clay outlines - maximum available camber and 1/2" toe out - and stickiest tires possible.

- Tony

We set our formula race csrs at 1/8 front toe out each side. Since the 914 steering rack is behind the front axle, it'll need even more toe out.

If I was racing a 914, I'd decrease the front caster to around 3.5 or so, set front camber between 2.5 and 3. Rear settings depend on engine power. With high power engine, add more toe in. Rear camber about 1.5 to 2. That's about where I'd start, at least with suspension settings.

Figuring the right spring rates comes first, with the old argument to use either springs or bars. I prefer adding spring rate. Then do ride height, rake, and corner balance. Then suspension alignment with toe settings last.

But of course the original question was for street! Goid luck!

As much caster and camber as you can get up front. 1.8 - 2.0 camber in the rear. 1/8" total toe out up front, zero toe in the rear. This will make for a responsive setup at the autocross with minimal compromise to tire wear and stability on the street.

The stock front camber setting is zero.

For autocrossing, you basically want as much negative camber as you can get that is even side to side.

Your car is a combination. So you want somewhere in that range.

Stock rear camber setting is -0.5 degrees. For autoX, you usually go for somewhere between a half-degree more negative camber than the front, to the max you can get.

Again, your car is a mix--so you want somewhere in that range.

I recommend in general having a half-degree more negative camber in the rear than in the front.

If you want specific numbers, then use -1 degree front and -1.5 degrees rear.


Toe is a different question. For the street, you want toe-in so that the car is predictable and stable. For autoX, you want front toe-out so the front of the car is "darty" and changes direction very rapidly.

Toe-out in the rear is EVIL. Don't mess with it unless you have a *lot* of experience.

--DD

To the thread lockers point, you can’t get what you really need. I ground mine out and was glad I did. Nothing wrong with a bit of tow in if you’re an attentive driver. Otherwise leave it alone.

One thing to add here is that camber is very much dependent on your tires.
For example, the GoodYear slicks i used to run did NOT like any negative camber at all.

For camber, i'm currently running -1 in the front and -2 in the rear.
As Dave mentioned, i run toe out(!) in the front which makes the car extremely "darty" on the street but also makes it turn on a dime.

Thanks everyone for the replies, this place is such a great resource.

I'm kind of tempted to learn how to do this myself... although given I think that about everything and then my car spends 6 months off the road while I drag my heels learning how to do it, I might just learn AFTER I first get it done by a professional so I can actually drive my car for the first time in 6 months.

Part of the reason I'm asking is that when I've been moving the car in and out of the shop to work on my flares I noticed the fronts won't go to full lock anymore without their being some resistance - when I've pushed the car around it almost feels like they're egg-shaped.

I don't hear them rubbing, but I need to get under the car and double check because I can't really think what else it could be.

Is it normal for 8x15s to rub in the front as you get near full lock?

Depends on your wheel offset, spacers (or lack thereof) and tires.

There is no simple yes/no answer to your question.

Use 7" front rims!

Guys.. I use .5 degrees static toe in for street use on most 914s. NOT INCHES! There is a bid difference between .5 degrees and .5 inches.

With the deflection in the suspension bushings caused by front drag, it ends up right a 0 toe.

For a long time we ran Betty's car at 0 degrees static toe for the front. With deflection, that would end up at about .5 degrees toe out. It was a bit darty on the highway but it helped the turn in at an AX.

But it was a bit tiring on the highway.

Sorry to everyone.. I just assumed everyone thinks of toe settings in degrees, not inches.

Clay

I've never seen anyone use inches for toe measurement.


However, when i do string alignments, i use mm differences between the front and back of the wheel rim to get my desired toe settings because i already converted the target degrees to their respective mm differences (using the rim diameter), which makes the string alignment much easier.

No spacers.
Maxilite 8x15 Fuchs with a 10.6mm offset.
Tires are 225/50.

When toe is set in a string alignment it's measured in inches or mm from the rim.

Doesn't toe out make the braking a little squirrely too?

Tires are a big factor in camber. Shorter/stiffer sidewalls won't lay as flat on the tarmac with big camber so you end up with high inside edge wear & less stop & go traction.

For a street car that is occasionally used in AX I like to set no more than 3/4 degree negative camber all around, and 1/16" of toe in at all 4 corners.
Its still a street car. You want it to behave well in all traffic and road conditions.
Tire wear will be significantly accelerated with these settings but you'll get decent grip on a closed course. Any more negative camber on street tires will destroy them in less than 5000 miles.

I can't say it does, at least not for me.

The "darty" comes from either you turning the steering wheel slightly or uneven pavement and the car immediately wanting to go that way.

I had to do a few hard braking "oh shit" moments on the street and the car behaved well. Maybe the added weight in the front during braking helps keeping it more in line.